se depth question

[se stan]

since the begining of the year im trying to make the transition from whites to the se...
im finding coins at fairly shallow depths nothing impressive.
my buddy called me over to test my se over a target he had just dug,it was an indian laying in the bottom of a hole at near 10 inches..
his troy shadow x-5 had a good signal heard but my se didnt hear it..maybe i needed to boost sensitivity?
i know people say air testing these explorers are not going to impress me but when i do' the signal is only hitting very close and digital numbers are off most of the time...im thinking too much interference in the house plus a power line is fairly close to my house..my whites units were more stabel air testing..
maybe i got a defective unit ...how do i know?
maybe someone can give me an airtest distance for a quarter with the slimline 10 or the wot---explorer se
thanks i usually run man. sensitivity to the point of chatter then back down 2 notches....

 

[bazooka]

Once the coin is dug, even it's in the bottom of the hole, it's considered an air test (possibly even worse because the distrubed soil matrix is interfering as opposed to allowing more depth) and therefore most, including myself, will say it is null and void. So don't worry about that one instance so much. The next time your friend gets a deep hit, have him let you check it before he digs.

The real key is to go slow. Even slower if there are many targets in the ground. The slower you go, the deeper you go. For me, I get the deepest going about a foot a second, although that really takes a toll on my back after a while so after a few hours I end up switching arms.

What is your gain set at? I would recommend 8 or 9.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

bazooka is right. An open hole will give a different signal (sometimes worse, sometimes better, who knows?) than an undisturbed flagged target. I find it very hard to believe that the Explorer wouldn't trounce an X5 on depth. Or put it this way: perhaps the X5 can be made to go competitively deep, but it will in no way compare to the TID accuracy, at the deeper depths, when compared to the Explorer. When an X5 user is set up to get coins as deep as you say, trust me, at those depths, they're doing good just to discern conductive vs iron, high verses low, etc.... Was he putting up with a lot of trash and falsies, to get that? Around here where I'm at, the Explorer consistently trumps units like the X5, in deep turf hunting.

Another factor is if there was iron nearby, that was causing masking on your Explorer, but not his X5. Because admittedly, the X5 is less prone to masking than a power-house like the Explorer.

Lastly, 6 or 7 on the gain is as high as I would go. Any more than that, and you're not really increasing depth, you're only making a bigger blasting sound of the deeper ones. You merely loose ability to discern deep verses shallow, since everything begins to sound the same. JMHO

 

[Hotcz70]

I'm not sure what you're running your gain at...but like Bazooka..I run my gain high. In fact I run it at 10 when I can...but if you're in an area with power lines or bad EMI,,,you might have to back off some.

I did extensive testing over actual in field targets on numerous occasions. On many of the deep coins I have dug (in the 10" range)...I experimented with gain settings.

I started to drop the gain in increments of one...over what I thought was a deep coin. At 9 the signal was okay...and at 8 it was pretty much okay. Once it got to 7 however...the signal was one that I personally probably wouldn't have considered a "hit" to stop and investigate.

Any lower than 7 on gain...and the signal disappeared in my soil.

That was the norm on at least half of the deep signals I dug. Once I dropped it to 7...many of the signals which I stopped to investigate with a high gain setting...disappeared.

Many successful hunters like to run a lower gain to discern between shallow and deep hits. Me personally..I prefer to hear those faint hits as best as I can...especially since most of the parks I hunt are devoid of anything less than 7" depth anyway.
Just my opinion though...and we each have our own preferences. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[se stan]

thanks guys for the advice so far but its like this....
when air testing with a wot i can id coins in digtal numbers at 2-3 inches..
a little past that the numbers start getting eratic 3-4 sets of readings....
shouldnt it stay at that one reading...???
now in the field im doubting these numbers when depth comes in..
i thought a minelab supposed to be good at locking on deep targets especially the wot

 

[Hotcz70]

n/t

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Stan, you ask " ...... shouldnt it stay at that one reading...???"

No. The deeper you go, on ANY machine, the more the TID begins to waffle. And the difference of the word "waffle" is up for debate, endlessly. There are some machines where it is a simple "on/off" scenario, where it either beeps, or it doesn't. Then there's machines that give quivering judgements of the "call" at depths, etc... At that point, it's up to the operator, to guage by his swings, closeness-to-the-ground, speed, trajectory, response, etc..... to discern "if it stayed at that reading" or not. When you get to the deeper depths (8 to 10" on a coin), then you are in fact relying on the available target info. to tell you if it's high/low, iron/non-iron, etc....

And at that point, you're asking for "what does it sound like", which CAN'T be answered in printed text. It has to be heard/learned.

 

[deeponedge]

I'm with Bryce stan....the SE is much better at ID'ing in undisturbed soil.

Also on the deeper targets it's always better to rely on sound than the numbers or cursor anyway.

I have always heard and seen in posts that the cursor never really settles in one spot on a deep coin...but it will stay in the upper right quadrant for the most part. The sound however...was usually much more reliable.

I remember reading many of Bryce's posts that explained this.

 

[se stan]

remember im air testing a 15 wot coil starting to break up at 3 inches in the air test?
that coil should be able to pick up a toaster oven across the room.......

 

[Mike95inNJ]

Hi all. I'm the guy that was with Stan. I'm not sure if he scanned it before I started digging or not. Also there was no iron in the hole or any other metal. I would find a signal that was (to me) sounding like it should be checked out. Let me back up first. I brought Stan to this place to see if the SE could sniff the ones my X5 could'nt since I dug over 80 silver coins plus numerous silver pieces of jewelry in a 18 month range. I've pounded this place to death and finding any coins here is tough enough as it is now. I thought this would be a good place to test out his SE so he could get used to what a deep one might sound like or what his TID is telling him.
I myself over 19 yrs of hunting have never used a metered machine. I hunt by sound only. I was admittedly surprised to hear that indianhead as good as I did. On our next hunt we're gonna do the same thing. I'll find something that I think is a fringe coin signal then scan with the SE with different settings ie... gain to see what sounds best. The week before I brought him there I found another indianhead at 9". Low and slow. I know it's been said a million times but, it's how well you know what your detector is trying to tell you. For all we know there could be something not right with Stan's SE and it might need to be serviced. Also, just a side note. Stan and I only met 3 weeks ago and if I had known him 18 months ago he would've been next to me digging those silvers too.
Happy Hunting and good luck out there.
MikeinNJ

 

[Mike Bearden]

and whoever thinks different is just fooling themselves. I own one of the lower serial number units that never had the tone down fix and it hits extremely deep or a regular basis.
Troy Galloway built a heck of detector when he built the Shadow ... plain & simple fact !
And YES ... really knowing your detector is the KEY ingredient.


Mike

 

[bazooka]

Are you air testing indoors? Is your sensitivity on auto or manual? Is the X5 machine turned off?

The problem, in my opinion, with auto sensitivity is that you have no idea what the sensitivity is set at. It could be very very low if the SE is getting interference from the X5. I've also noticed that it can also be kinda quirky in other situations... sometimes I have to power cycle the machine to get the sensitivity back to normal (sometimes deep coins will disappear after having another machine nearby and they won't come back even if the other guy turns the machine off, until I power cycle mine).

Another concern is that you may be putting too much weight on the digital numbers. I'm not saying using them is bad, but you need to understand that having two numbers constantly changing on each sweep can be confusing if not impossible to comprehend. That is why I'm a big proponent of the Smart Find screen.

But putting all that aside, take your machine out into your yard...set the sensitivity to manual 15 and lean it against a tree or something with the coil in the air. If it is not "mostly" stable, lower it until it is. Then do an air test on a quarter. You should be able to get a digabble signal at 6 to 8 inches. If you can't get anything at greater than 4 inches, I'd say either the coil is bad or the machine. Let us know how that goes.

 

[dewcon4414]

I shouldnt chim in here with all these experts, but i too was a whites guy and what i learned first was this machine will hit a deep coin at almost a standstill. The whites could be moved along darn fast... dont try it with the SE. I kind of push my machine along making sure to almost stay on the ground. Are you using FAST on when air testing? turn it off and reduce your sensitivity. Everyone hunts this machine differently. Some like fast and deep on, some manual others auto, some high gain others lower. This is a machine you have to find your grove on... once you do its got great potential. Once again ... hunt with a good explorer user in YOUR area... it shortens the learning curve.

Dew

 

[se stan]

i know all the claims about the se depth but so far it seems to me that a deep coin is going to be a iffy paralel cursor jumping signal .ive been using the xlt for near 10 years so im not a greenhorn to this game..but like my seasoned vet friend of mine that uses the xs since day one of production told me to forget about everything you know about detecting ,you got an explorer now its a different animal.. is the xs such a different detector compared to the se?lot of people claim the best finds were done with them and are still loyal followers.now let me tell you about the xs friend that i have and i hold him responsible for taking me into the dark realms of the explorer.his finds i think cannot be matched by any human being holding a detector.call him a prodigy or a naturual or just lucky but in 4 years he must of found enough quality finds to fill a 55 gallon drum..i know he has an xs but listen to these settings..gain at a mid level to hear the deep ones and sensitivity under 10 and left there and never touched.ever....he claims that sensitivity has nothing to do with him getting better finds.i guess he likes a stable machine but compared with the other people i see,they are blaring high and hot, only thing can happen is to produce false signals..what was so different in the makeup of the xs that people that bought the newer explorers regret it? why change a good thing? anyway i read andys book a couple times over and im not the type to give up on this se. been working this machine 2 month now and yes i hit i silver washington in the woods about 4 inches in loose leafy soil .4 indians in plowed fields ,again fairly shallow.i aint gonna stop or be satisfied till a hit a deep one in hard compacted soil..i probably havent gone over one yet but its bound to happen.last coin for the xlt last year was a half dime at 8 inches with a pretty stable digital reading .im glad i met a good guy like mike fron nj and i know he will help me in the field comparing signals with his x5 till we find the one that will make me belive .i bought the wot last week to go to this park and try to reach something mike has missed.i hope you guys dont mind me bothering you on this forum but im on a mission to enter and open the gates of explorer nirvana.i got the key but just cant open the lock.i bought this se mint cond 1 month old from a guy that has found a few good coins with it but wasnt satisfied and got the etrac.he snapped the e track in half and threw it and stomped on it.[im waiting for the pictures] ,i will post the unfortunate detector.....i hope i can make some more interesting post with the continuing quest with the explorer
thanks everyone stan

 

[dewcon4414]

I dont know that the XS is a better machine... but i get my butt kicked by Brian often who uses one. Its a lot like the arguement about the XLT vs the DFX.... wouldnt you say its who is using it once learned? For me i like auto sensitivity. You hit the nail on the head... less falsing especially if you scrape the ground like i do. Ive tested and tested and cant tell the difference on a deep coin.... well except i dont get all the poppin and cracking. If i check the screen its always the smartscreen.... then when checking i might do the digital. I think thats the confidance factor for someone coming from a whites to explorer. I also beleave the XS just gave a COND number which is a little more stable than the ferr reading. Thats why if the ferr number isnt off that much i rely more on the COND number. That to me is the difference in the finds... simpler sometimes is better. Thats just my way... remember what the others said.. you just have to find the way that works for you. That disturbed soil is a hard one to hunt in. I hunted the other day where the moles really had been working and there was slag really different hunting. Id say even the XLT has issues with air gaps in the soil. HH

Dew

 

[se stan]

n/t

 

[se stan]

he tells me when you get a deep signal try adjusting the sensitivity and it wont help you a bit, least on the xs..he says its a bunch of nonsense,,a feel good setting...how can yo argue with a guy that has found what he did.im telling him to write a book about his finds .... unbelivable
just talked to mikefromnj.we are going early in the morning. gonna chase deep ones again...
so far the se means simply exhausted ..but things can change

 

[utahshovelhead]

Hey guys,

Just want to interject something here. I had the XS from when it first came out to the EX II and switched to the Ex II (to get the better plastics, 1/4 jack, etc) and within a month called Minelab in Vegas to see if the machine was somehow different in its ability to get solid hits on the deep targets (answer was basically no). I have read lots of talk about that and am certain of only one thing, some machines even in the same line will respond differently. I am saying from one SE to the next SE or EX to EX. Yea, there are quality controls but some times a great connection makes all the dif. I'm pretty decent with the EX II Ive had since they came out but I still believe that the older XS did a better job of finding deep targets. I still get deep targets with the EX II but I have to really calm down slow down and concentrate very carefully when in the deep range. I have friends who helped me dig up some of these targets who cannot believe they came from the depth they came and I don't want to say how deep cause Ive seen the posts of people who just don't believe that its possible...any way, I suggest you get some deep targets buried and start experimenting with your machine on known variables to see what you can get to with it.

good luck
utahshovelhead