hiya guys,,i have a cibola with a 12 x 10 dd coil,,,it works as well as my sovereign g.t. and dont make a squeek on salt wet here in the uk,,in or out of the water,,,it also picks up the tiny stuff every bit as good as the stock coil but at around 20%-25% deeper ,,,i think its the combination of 12 x 10 d.d. coil and the e d 180 extended disc that makes this machine stand out,,,i fitted mine with a precision 10 turn pot which also improves the ground balance performance to way past the auto setting from the factory in depth ,,,and seems better than the vachero in disc. at a faster sweep speed,,,in fact as the i,c,chip is different in both machines ,its better starting with a cibola and converting it,,,but even if you left it as bought the 12 x 10 coil on both standard machines will do it for you on the beach as good as anything (discriminator that is),,and the recovery speed after iron is the quickest,,,try your minelabs,,,i have a sov. g.t.,,swing over iron and see if you can pick up the coin or coins within a foot?,,and if you can,,, then let me know what im doing wrong,,,rgds comcat