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Safari Noise Cancel

H

Hardtack1862

New member
The word from the factory is follow what the owners manual shows and that is to Noise Cancel with the loop a foot off the ground. Because EMI is in the air not in the ground. Noise Cancel should be done more than once during a detecting session.
 
Tin Foil EMI is in the air and ground mineralization is in the ground.
 
Tin Foil,

Are you saying that the factory engineers are wrong in this design, may you should enlighten them as to the error of their ways.

Bill Branin from Minelab Factory wrote this to me.

Hello Bob do exactly what the manual instruct you to do, hold the coil a foot off the ground and push noise cancel this will scan for EMI in the air and find the best channel to detect in.
 
Wow

My telecon with Minelab they said to place coil on ground.....

Perhaps they are hedging their bets? EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) refers to the propagation of interfering electro magnetic radiation in the air. These fields are located up and down the spectrum and can be impacted locally by the proximity to RF emitters, power lines, telephone cables, radio and tv stations, microwave towers, cell towers, TACAN stations, LORAN stations, power transformers, power substation, switching centers, etc. Each of these items emits and propagates RF fields some intentionally and some as noise. Proximity effects the field strength as does things like humidity, frequency, terrain, metal objects nearby, etc. Son now you come along and turn on a transmitter / receiver that in the case of the Safari can hear multiple frequencies. IF by chance EMI is present at one of those frequencies and it's field strength sufficient your Safari will not detect the field it's emitting rather it's receiver will be saturated by the EMI on that frequency. Thus the Safari will be in essence blinded in that frequency band and your would be hearing a tone that as really false but appearing as target. Now the folks at Safari say that they allow you to self calibrate the detector by running the Noise Cancel feature. The antenna ( coil) if held a foot off the ground will be detecting frequencies present there. The receiver is probably designed to test each band sense the ambient level and either accept the band as usable or reject it is the band is saturated with EMI. Thus the Safari checks each band listens for EMI and makes a decision to either process the signal on that band or not. So what you then get is a receiver that cuts out bands that are to noise saturated for the receiver to detect a low level signal with its coil as the ambient level s to high. Thus the auto noise cancellation function. Now if you place your coil on the ground RF energy tends not to propagate well there as the ground acts both as an absorber and as (ground) or your right no signal present. This impacts mainly high frequencies a lower frequencies penetrate ground better er. So an engineer will tell you if your trying to detect EMI the coil should be above the ground (12") placing that coil on the ground itself will cause it to be less impacted by EMI thereby possible allowing the receiver to accept a channel that will become marginal once the coil is lifted off he surface slightly.....

Damn dilemma isn't it...
I'm going to go back to doing it 12" up. Putting it on the ground will negate the noise cancel function for some of the frequencies involved.

Contrary to the telephone call info....

Ed
 
You have got it wrong again, its not my way, its the factory's way. That's how the Safari was designed to function.
 
This is what the factory's is saying. This is one of the areas that gives the Safari it's edge.
 
It seems that we have stumbled into an area 51, UFO, government cover up situation. The real truth may never be known??? Is it worth loosing a friend or a potential friend or a member that has lots of good personal information that could be used by us? I don't think so.:cheers:. Thanks for every one impute....Z
 
Tinfoil ( Jerry) has many many years of detecting. He has great knowledge that can only be aquired in the field.

His information is usually A-1.....................It would not be the first time the factory Engineers were wrong..Or at least half wrong...Field operation garners a lot of better info than perfect air tests in factory conditions.So why not try both ways, and if it works as I am pretty sure (Ground) noice cancel will..you may owe Tinfoil an apology..................There wasn't any need to go on the attack either.. Quote.. may you should enlighten them as to the error of their ways

We are all friends here and share ideas.........You joined 20 days ago..and that type attitude will not get you far... So please be a little nicer.
 
I would tend to agree with the engineers, as they have spent many hours or even years in research and development. I am not a scientist so I don't know the relationship of EMI to the ground. I will say that when I noise cancel in the air as the book says to do I don't recall getting any interference even around power lines. My xlt used to chatter like crazy when I got too close to power lines or a strong power source. If I recall I had to air balance 1st at waist height, then ground balance. But the machine was still unstable around anything that carried an electric current. I went out today with my safari did on the ground noise cancel, and my wife, and God as my witness, dug three false signals. When I say false signals, I mean no target recovery and my pinpoint probe could not find item. This was in the same park where I have made numerous finds, 1 gold plated mens ring, 1 IH penny, many, many pennies and clad coins. I found these items by doing what the manual had in its writings, and that was to noise cancel 12 inches or so off the ground keeping coil still.
If I recall in one of my posts I said I had tried both methods, and this is true. The more I think about it, the more I believe that when I noise cancelled on the ground I was in an area with minimal EMI. I am just going to continue to do what I do, and that is if I feel like noise cancelling in air or on ground thats what I'm gonna do. Are we gonna be pitted against each other here or are we going to do what works best for us in a particular area. I absolutely enjoy this forum, and the posts of fellow detectorists, and I know that I can and am continually learning things from folks just like you and me. Lets not get bitter, lets get better!! I am not ignorant to the fact that engineers can not possibly be in all of our shoes. We are too far and wide and all around the globe for every particular area to have been tested. We have this saying at work, and I just read it in this forum today " Do it your way, your gonna anyway" and until there is a better way, then thats just the way it is. I am glad we live in a country USA where we can express ourselves, without doing any major harm, and not be censored or even end up in jail. I enjoy this freedom and I don't ever want to lose it!! Keep up the posts, everybody has a say. Ron :detecting:
 
I was going to add some more reasons but, I will let you guys figuare out the rest. This works on all the Explorers and the Quattro and the Safari. Guess how I know??????? Look in Andy's book on the Quattro. Page14, 38, 56,. Then you read between the lines and you can figuar out the other Plus's or the other places to do it. Not bad for someone that don't get it :rofl: Yeah right. BTW I have talked to Sandy, Dick and a couple of different techs form time to time at Minelab in Vegas bet you can't guess how they said do it. I would like to say a big thanks to Andy for that info. :D: :D: HH Jerry aka Tinfoil
 
I have Emailed Minelab to clear this up and will write what they come back with.

Everyone should do what works for them and express that point of view. The contraversy on this subject should be cleared by the designer of the system. Let's see what he says. In any case. Finds be Finds and if you get them your way and your happy... Keep an doing it that way...

I'm to new to find one method over the other... Just want to learn what's best....

Ah yes, radar engineer but there's much mystery in the Safari and it's cicuits....

I enjoy everyones opinion, even got one of my own..

Laters

Ed
 
I was being nice, sharing information I had received from the factory. I'm an easy going fellow and I am not new to this hobby I've been enjoying this hobby for 28 years. I joined this forum to enjoy information shared by other fellow hobbyists. I have worked with factories and their engineers, taught electronics, taught computer service and repair to students so they can pass their test and earn their CompTIA A+ certification, and worked as a factory service representative. I have been around and have met some very extraordinary people. I am open to new ideas and am always willing to learn something new everyday. I am a member of a local metal detecting club amongst other organizations. So new I am not only new to this forum. I have contributed to other conversations but never tried to sway anybody to my way of thinking, only share information and post my experiences.
 
Hardtack1862,
Wow it is an honor to be communicating with you. You really have something to give to us and I think all of us appreciate what ever information that is passed along to us from you.
Remember you are communicating with a person like me. For the past few decades I drove a bus mostly in the inner city. So don't have much to contribute intellectually. I have been hanging around with prostitutes, drug addicts, drunks, people who have fallen through the cracks, pickpockets, ex cons, liars, the abnormals and people just trying to survive in a world that doesn't want their kind around. One kind of looses faith in humanity. One needs to develop a sense of humor (warped as it maybe) it keeps one near normal as possible.
I notice there is much hostility here on Findmall. I leave Findmall for a few months and come back because there is so much great information that is present here on Findmall.
So patience is asked for and thank you for understanding and sharing....Z
 
Sorry for any hostility on my part. I do appreciate Hardtracks advice,and agree with the manual. I have tried it both ways, and I want to get the most out of my machine. So it is back to the way of written instruction ie: owners manual. Thanks again!! Ron :detecting:
 
I'm sure you can give great advice with your credentials..and we all welcome it.

It's just that we all try and learn, and, controversial posts take a life of their own,,,We have exceptional people here.and all get along ..I'm sure you will be a wonderful asset. Again Welcome Sir...hope you like it here.
 
n/t
 
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