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S-12 Coil worth the Money?
- Thread starter kd4hee
- Start date
hi kevin,
i use the S-12 on my GT and a X-12 on my explorer xs. found them to be great coils for the beach and farmlands and other open areas. very lite weight and can turn the sens. up and run a nice smooth threshold plus their waterproof and they do go deep. great coils.
stan pa. sjmdc
i use the S-12 on my GT and a X-12 on my explorer xs. found them to be great coils for the beach and farmlands and other open areas. very lite weight and can turn the sens. up and run a nice smooth threshold plus their waterproof and they do go deep. great coils.
stan pa. sjmdc
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
n/t
I feel the S12 is superior of any coils out there for the Sovereigns. The stock 10 inch coil is OK too, but if you know your GT I think you will find the S12 to be a bit better on depth and ground coverage for the beach.
With a bigger coil I think you will find more sensitivity too and may see some falsing, but I find if you come at the target from a different angle you will see it is iron.
With a bigger coil I think you will find more sensitivity too and may see some falsing, but I find if you come at the target from a different angle you will see it is iron.
Thanks Rick. Just as you were posting, I was reading the Sun Ray ad for the S-12 linked above which states the S-12 works on all Sovereign models. But $219! I'd have to find a lot more than I am right now, which is nothing, (well I did find a 1999 penny but I won't mention that) to justify branching out to a coil that's nearly half of what I paid for my whole detector. whew. del.
Tony
Member
They are also very cheap to manufacture but as keen users we are "happy" to shell out big bucks for them....after market coils are big money spinners for companies but I think we are being taken advantage of....just my opinion....
Coils are plastic, resin and a few turns of wire......they would sell a lot more if they were priced realistically,
......I'm feeling better now.....
Coils are plastic, resin and a few turns of wire......they would sell a lot more if they were priced realistically,
......I'm feeling better now.....
yes i used and still use the sovereign 10 incher alot and its a great coil for low trash parks, open fields and beaches. it goes deep and you can pretty much swing it for a good 4 hours.
i brought a used 5 incher and 8 incher for more trashy parks and getting around old houses which work great.
the detecting i like doing is getting out to old farms and beaches where you need to cover alot of ground and just take your time and enjoy the wide open spaces so thats where the sunray S-12 comes in handy. i have a X-12 on my explorer so i knew it would be a great big coil for the sovereign GT.
stan pa.>>> equipment junkie - sjmdc
i brought a used 5 incher and 8 incher for more trashy parks and getting around old houses which work great.
the detecting i like doing is getting out to old farms and beaches where you need to cover alot of ground and just take your time and enjoy the wide open spaces so thats where the sunray S-12 comes in handy. i have a X-12 on my explorer so i knew it would be a great big coil for the sovereign GT.
stan pa.>>> equipment junkie - sjmdc
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
[attachment 19920 pointout.jpg]
If these were massed produced where you could sell 10,000 of them then the price would be lower. It cost so much for the molds the equipment to make a coil, plus the labor to design one of these coils, the to build one to test only to find out it don't work like it should, so back to the drawing board and start over. What i am saying is to make that first coil it may cost $25,000 or more, so if you sold one the cost would be $25,000 for the coil with no profit. The materials didn't cost much and maybe less that $10, but everything else that went into it is what cost. If you sold 25,000 of these coils you would have $10 or less plus divide the original cost to make the first one and you will have around $11 in it. Now to make a profit and sell to the dist you have to sell for more than your cost, then the dist sells to the dealer and he has to make a little too, so now this coil is at lets say $30 now. This sounds like a reasonable price if we sold 25,000 of them and everyone could live on less then $5 profit, but in most case less then 1000 are sold of the after market coil and people have to make Little more than $5 on each coil to survive as a dealer, so now that cost per coil is a lot more.
Now these were just make believe figures to show you what is involved as I am sure it cost a lot more for the research and development of these coils and if these could be massed produced the cost per coil could be less.
I used to repair TVs and when tubes were used in TV before sold state a lot were made, so the cost was less then $1 sometimes depending on the tube as it was massed produced. Now as time went on and tube were used less and less there were less being made and the price went higher until there were very few used. Now they were only made for one day a year, but these same tube went from less than $1 to over $35 as they were no longer massed produced. If all coil were made the same with the same freq and the same connectors so only one 5 inch coil, one 6 inch coil and one 7 inch, one 8 inch and so on was made these would cost less to make and cost the customer just a fraction of what we are paying.
Time for me to get off my soap box, but just wanted to let you know why we have to pay the price we do if we want different coils.
Rick
Now these were just make believe figures to show you what is involved as I am sure it cost a lot more for the research and development of these coils and if these could be massed produced the cost per coil could be less.
I used to repair TVs and when tubes were used in TV before sold state a lot were made, so the cost was less then $1 sometimes depending on the tube as it was massed produced. Now as time went on and tube were used less and less there were less being made and the price went higher until there were very few used. Now they were only made for one day a year, but these same tube went from less than $1 to over $35 as they were no longer massed produced. If all coil were made the same with the same freq and the same connectors so only one 5 inch coil, one 6 inch coil and one 7 inch, one 8 inch and so on was made these would cost less to make and cost the customer just a fraction of what we are paying.
Time for me to get off my soap box, but just wanted to let you know why we have to pay the price we do if we want different coils.
Rick
Yes, that's a pretty good model. It's just a bitter pill to swallow when I paid $525 for my Sov Elite package and Sun Ray wants $219 for just a coil. Seems like they've missed the prime crossing point of market demand versus price. I mean, throw me a bone and at least fool me with the $199.99 and extended warranty ploy. I'm a good American--I'd chew on that. del.
Frank in NH
Active member
n/t
I build my own Sovereign coils and let me tell you it's no picnic. After a good dozen of so I am finally at the point where I feel comfortable building one that I know will work. I would guess about 6-7 of those early coils were trashed for one reason or another. The process itself is very time consuming. It probably takes a good eight hours or so from start to finish to complete one. You just don't slap one of these together. You need a scope, LCR meter, all types and sizes of wire, coil shells, some type of shielding method, filler materials various types of epoxies, etc. In the case of the Sovereign you also need the pre-amp or it just will not work! The cost is justified. I don't think that 150.00- 200.00 is too much to ask at all.
Best regards All!
Best regards All!
Joe Patrick
New member
Rick,
You are correct! The investment in the design is usually significant and face it, we are a rather small hobby, so products are not mass produced in the quantities of say a consumer DVD player.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are in a unique kind of hobby that actually pays us back for our time and effort. Not only do we receive enjoyment, but also value - as many of our finds have monetary value. I always view buying a metal detector or accessory as an investment.
Joe
You are correct! The investment in the design is usually significant and face it, we are a rather small hobby, so products are not mass produced in the quantities of say a consumer DVD player.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are in a unique kind of hobby that actually pays us back for our time and effort. Not only do we receive enjoyment, but also value - as many of our finds have monetary value. I always view buying a metal detector or accessory as an investment.
Joe
Ralph Sun Ray
New member
Del,
Rick's general scenario is basically correct. However, I can assure you that my production costs are much higher by the time I receive them here for final testing, labeling and distribution than he describes even after R&D. Now, if you purchase a new 10" Slimline coil for your Elite or GT from Minelab it has a suggested retail of $219.95 and they do mass produce! So how is our Intruder S-12 which is 12.5" overpriced at $219.95? Do you think we can produce cheaper products then they can when they are a huge company and we are a very small one? Also, all of our products are made here in the USA where labor is much higher than many other countries. Thanks for looking.
Ralph (Sun Ray)
Rick's general scenario is basically correct. However, I can assure you that my production costs are much higher by the time I receive them here for final testing, labeling and distribution than he describes even after R&D. Now, if you purchase a new 10" Slimline coil for your Elite or GT from Minelab it has a suggested retail of $219.95 and they do mass produce! So how is our Intruder S-12 which is 12.5" overpriced at $219.95? Do you think we can produce cheaper products then they can when they are a huge company and we are a very small one? Also, all of our products are made here in the USA where labor is much higher than many other countries. Thanks for looking.
Ralph (Sun Ray)
Ralph, FYI I'm thinking of getting one, and trace the thread and you'll see that it wasn't me that said they are overpriced. I merely made the reference to the price of my brand new out of the box Sov Elite compared to the price of a coil alone, and I prodded, tongue in cheek, the American subconscious fixation on items priced at one penny under the whole dollar and the "wow I've gotta have it now" syndrome when we find out we get additional warranty to boot. del.