Response to in ground rusted bottle caps and nails

[tippyhound]

I am 60 years old and live with a not so good back after a recent surgery. I sold a CZ7A Pro because it constantly signaled rusted bottle caps as nickels and nails as deep coins. With this back problem I don't need to be digging bad signals that say they are good.
I am interested in this detector because of the less then 3lbs weight and some of the good info offered on this forum. The main thing for me is I can't afford to be switching detectors constantly these days. Does it eliminate these type of false signals?
Your input would be much appreciated. Thanks Rich

 

[Monte]

ALL makes and models of modern-day motion discriminators will have some difficulty with those blasted rusty bottle caps! In addition to my bad back I am a bad diabetic, have some heart disease problems, and other health issues, not to mention I have to suffer through an outing with limited mobility in my (R) elbow and (L) shoulder.

I have to keep my detector selection in trim form and that was one of the reasons why the X-Terra 50 grew on me so quickly. Along with my modified White's IDX Pro and Troy Custom Shadow X5, these three detectors let me still stay somewhat active in the hobby.

I will admit that I KNOW that I will miss some good targets that can fool me from time to time, but I have to play-the-odds when it comes to dealing with annoying old-time trash. I am ESPECIALLY referring to rusty bottle caps and similar annoying iron or magnetic-based targets. How do I do it? I employ techniques which I have been using and teaching for over a quarter-century. I named these A.T.C. techniques (Audio Target Classification) which are best employed with a motion discriminator.

A good TR-Discrimination type provides what I call True, Progressive Discrimination abilities. Motion discriminate circuitry designs, however, are NOT able to progressively reject some types of annoying trash.

E.P.R. and Quick-Out are two of the terms I coined those many years ago to refer to two of the best methods of technique to help deal with rusty bottle caps and similar annoying metals. "Edge Pass Rejection" and "Quick-Out" are the two main techniques that I would be glad to share with you in a direct E-mail.

Please, E-mail me directly at MonteVB@comcast.net and simply ask for my ATC article and I will E-Mail you it in two parts.

In the meantime, give some consideration to picking up a Minelab X-Terra 50. They are light and well balanced, have a comfortable sweep requirement/allowance, and excellent multi-notch discrimination. There is no "perfect" detector made and at times any detector can be fooled, but with the right techniques and mastering a good, easy-to-use detector, you'll be on your way to enjoying this great hobby more and more.

Happy Hunting!

Monte

 

[Nick A]

Admittedly, the bottle caps were a little scratchy sounding, but I figured I'd see what was there cause they sounded pretty darn good.

I almost never dig rusty steel bottle caps with any of the CZs. Aluminum screw caps, yeah, I dig plenty of those with BOTH machines.

The X50 will be a good machine if you want to dig only coins, just dig only the 100% solid signals in the coin range. The CoinStrike might be a better choice for you, but it does have a steeper learning curve.

Another plus for you with the X50 might be the weight, as it is super light compared to the CZ.

But I'm surprised with what you say about the CZ, because that's one of the things I loved about the CZ from day one... no rusty bottle caps. I dug tons of them with my first detector, a White's Classic II.

 

[Nick A]

Nails, on the other hand, I DO dig a bunch of those with the CZ. But, part of that is because I want to be SURE it's a nail and not a deep coin. You can learn the double beep, and they don't sound 100% good, and usually don't sound good from 90 degrees.

The SunRay inline probe has been an amazing help with this, as like I said, I dig the iffy signals to make SURE it's a nail. And since the nails are always in the side of the hole (as you are pinpointing one end of the nail) the probe makes quick work of finding them in the hole and you can easily pull 'em out.

Hope that helps you. I have not dug ANY nails with the X50, but I also have not dug anything super deep.

 

[El Cuerno]

n/t

 

[Nick A]

n/t

 

[John(Tx)]

It's dated 2/14/06 on this (XTerra) forum. They are helpful. John

 

[wpaxt]

Rich,

I have many hours in the field with both the 30 & the 50 and have found that the X-Terra's excel in telling the operator when to dig & when not to dig. Try as I have to outwit the machines, the X-Terra's seem to always to win. Good targets are smooth and repeatable. Junk breaks up. I have only been fooled a couple of times by rusty bottle caps; for the most part they pop & sputter. As for nails, I have not dug one yet in the areas that I hunt; that may be because there aren't any or that the machine is discriminating them out. The VDI on both machines is a real asset, too, and makes a killer combo along with the audio discrimination in terms of deciding whether or not to dig a signal.

As Monte mentioned in his post below, there is no perfect machine. But with that being said, the X-Terra's are the best, easiest to use single frequency machines that I personally have used since I started detecting in 1972. I don't think that you will go wrong with either one.

Feel free to email me if you have further questions (wpaxt@aol.com).

Bill (S. CA)

 

[Digger]

X-Terra Tips for the Coin-$hooter
Having been a big fan of the 5kHz Musketeer series, I was excited to hear that Minelab had developed a single frequency detector with audio and visual target ID. Having used the X-Terras for several months now, I thought I might post a short (long?) article on some recommendations for setting up your machine, as well as what to listen for (and watch for) while coin hunting. This isn't the Holy Grail of X-Terra coin-shooting. It is just some documented thoughts and tips from a guy who uses the X-Terras.

Both the X-Terra 30 and the X-Terra 50 offer single frequency technology, multiple audio tones, adjustable notch discrimination, pinpointing mode, all-metal mode, a large LCD panel, adjustable sensitivity and separate adjustable volume settings for speaker or headphones. Although the notch segments, audio tones and ground balance differ between the two models, both offer the same basic functionality. The fixed ground balance on the X-30 is set to provide adequate operation in most types of soil. The adjustable ground balance on the X-50 allows the user to adjust the ground balance to operate smoothly in most every hunting environment. Ground balance settings apply to all hunting modes of the X-Terra 50. Proper ground balance will minimize false signals caused by ground mineralization and maximize the ability to provide accurate target identification. To properly adjust the X-50 for the site you are hunting, set the detector to the all-metal mode and find an area of ground that is clear of any metal. Before making any adjustment to the ground balance, temporarily adjust the sensitivity down to a level in the single digits. Sensitivity is the detector

 

[Nick A]

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,288286,288286#msg-288286

Yep, I read that, even printed it out to keep with the X50 manual. With any new machine you gotta dig some junk at first, to be sure you can trust it. I didn't say it was giving those clean coin hits on rusty caps, but just good enough from both directions and 90 degrees that I felt they needed checking out.

No doubt, if you dig only the clear, absolutely non-sputtering hits on this machine you will be digging almost 99% coins. It's accurate as hell on the coins it does hit. And target separation especially in pinpoint is killer.

But I can turn up the discrimination on about any machine and just dig non-deep (less than 5") coins, but I know I'd miss a lot of goodies too.

I did an air test on the gold rings I have on hand and was disappointed with the results. Out of maybe 12 rings, I had 3 that sputtered like pulltabs and one ladies 10K class ring that I could not get a hit on. I need to investigate that more, but it bothered me.

I'm not making any fixed conclusions here, as I have just two weeks on this machine, but there's no question that I like it, it's light, and it finds coins hitting them nice and solid.

I'm just still skeptical that it finds ALL the coins, if that makes sense. I'm working mainly older schools, parks and public areas that have been well detected. I like digging those 6" and deeper signals. I just am not getting any of those with the X50. All the hits are 5" or less so far. I don't mind getting the clad, but I also want the old stuff and jewelry that might be there. And I know this machine is not touted as being anything more than a midrange machine, not a top-of-the line machine. I am hoping to see more than midrange performance though, but maybe it's just not there.

We've still got the spring and summer ahead of us, so we'll see what happens. I think I'll be keeping the X50 for sure. I can see it being a lot of fun on those hot humid summer days when all you feel like is digging those hits at 42 and filling your pocket with quarters and having every one be exactly that... a quarter.