REPORT REPORT or TC and Magical 3D Ears:usan:

[jimpugh]

From: jimpugh
To: EddieB

Quote
EddieB
Hey Jim, I appreciate you imput that you give on the forum. It's been a great help to me and I know others. I really don't understand what you mean about time constant. Could you explain that to me in simple terms? I love working with the ET and know it is going to pay off when I get the hang of it. Thanks again, EddieB


Hi Eddie

Nice to hear from you . TC (time constant) is a term that is used in electronics ....

{ In physics and engineering, the time constant usually denoted by the Greek letter τ, (tau), characterizes the frequency response of a first-order, linear time-invariant (LTI) system. Examples include electrical RC circuits and RL circuits. It is also used to characterize the frequency response of various signal processing systems

 

[grumpyolman]

Dang! That was impressive and informing. Never even thought there was a Z axis in metal detecting. The importance of that is it, according to your description, is a function of swing speed and location in reference to the coil, sweet spot, as the coil passes over the target. X &Y are tough enough for me right now...and then you add Z? Thanks so much for that explanation. I lurk a lot on the forums to learn anything I can to increase my odds of finding good stuff. Still, the best bet would for us to create a resource bank of skilled detector operators, sorted by state, so we could try to contact the closest person and arrange a meet to watch and learn whatever they were willing to teach. Might even have a mini seminar where you, CJC, Andy, and many of the others who are good, could help out 4-5 folks on a Saturday morning in some city. Just day dreaming with my fingers...Jim

 

[mike - in]

n/t

 

[John LA]

Great idea Jim. Something like they do on the Exterra forum would be good.

 

[Jeb NWR]

Grumpyolman wrote, "Dang! That was impressive and informing. "

Glad you thought so bud, i never understood a word of it.
It certainly WAS impressive, but informing Nah!
what`s the point of baffling people with Rocket science ? If that`s the Simple informative view, as was pointed out before ,i wouldn`t like to hear the Technical side of it.

 

[jimpugh]

***this is a copy of my response on MLO E-trac forum / If THIS is simple Terms ****

"Thank You for the kind comments"

I did not bring my box of colors .....but maybe It may have been called for!

The terminology in brackets { } can be found on any Google search of the

Term "Time Constant" .....

My theories of the analytical process that my mind weighs on targets in milliseconds. Is just that "a try at putting into words 30 years of digging with metal detectors" I have used and sold Minelab since the FT 16000 before the BBS technology......I always try to help others out and I have built and manufactured my own pulse detector the Barracuda.....But I prefer to dig ..... weather it is under water or on land.... I love my E-trac and it is really performing IN MY hands.....In THE FIELD....
So in closing THANKS AGAIN....Like my daddy use to say "You can take a jack ASS to water but you can not make him drink unless you drown the MF"

Happy Trails
Jim Pugh

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Thanks for taking the time to explain "time constant" Jim.
You wrote about it the other day in rely to a post I'd made. I thought you were talking about the signal length. So thanks for giving a good explanation of it.
Mick Evans.

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

I hope you saw the coverage of the US elections. You may remember the use of a couple of holograms of reporters sent to a certain TV studio. To do this, they filmed the person they wanted to create the hologram of, with 28 cameras, from 28 angles. Sound familiar. (The Explorer/ E-Trac also puts out 28 signals.) They needed this many cameras to create a 3D image that we saw as a hologram.
What Jim just said, in some slightly fancier words, was that the E-Trac is doing exactly the same thing with the targets it sees in the ground. For best effect, he was saying that if you swing it at just the right speed over what I presume would be the centre of the coil (he called it a sweet spot) then your ears will hear the target in 3D! You can hear it's shape, ie a nice rounded tone for a coin, more so than you pick up on a VLF.
I hope this clears it up for you.
Mick Evans.
P.S. Jim, If I got it wrong, you can always tell Jeb the detailed explanation.

 

[Jeb NWR]

Look guys . I cannot see the point in going around Florida to get to New York. Jim's Techno evaluation on his answer was a sure way to baffle people who are not so advanced in their understanding of technical terms as he obviously is. I just saw it as a self indulgent extravaganza of technical jargon that was way over the top to be a simplistic answer to a simple question. All he really had to say was , " with the E trac you need to go slow when sweeping ". If that is MY understanding now of what he was saying . Who the heck needs the technical stuff ?
If Jim feels that using all that technical jargon makes him look Superior in his explanations of questions and he gets off on it , then that`s his affair, but i just didn`t see the point of answering a question in a hundred words what he could easily have said in 10. To my view it was just sheer showing off i`m sorry to say.and that`s my view, even if you don`t like it ! We all have our different views as you can appreciate , and if mine have upset some people, then that`s unfortunate as this is a DEBATING FORUM isn`t it, and on debating forums , different views are expressed ?

 

[coinnut]

n/t

 

[diggernash]

I'm sad to say that I am one of the personality types that likes this kind of explanation, even if I don't understand it the first time through. I've been accused of the same thing more than once, but I can tell you that I don't try to sound superior to anyone. Especially when you hear all the ain'ts and y'alls thrown in to my conversations. Some people are just into there particular field of study; it's what they truly enjoy. Stop by a local race track and ask a couple of crew chiefs to explain weight transfer or ask a master mason to explain brick coursing or a computer programmer to explain how a compiler works... They all throw me for a loop, but I believe that they think in the language of their occupation. I don't believe it is in anyway intentional.

Jarrett

 

[Jeb NWR]

I can`t understand it after reading it 5 times over. SIMPLE TERMS is all what`s required.

 

[BlackX]

For people who think and work in those terms, it's much easier for them to explain in those terms than it is to translate them into laymen's terms. Sort of like the brilliant teacher you had in high school (or wherever) who had a hard time putting things at just the right level for you to learn best (ignoring that folks in those situation have to try to hit the average (or median) learning ability of the class). Some folks are better at doing than teaching.

 

[grumpyolman]

Jebb..
.
All he really had to say was , " with the E trac you need to go slow when sweeping ".

If that's all you saw or heard from the post you missed some really important parts.
In hundreds of posts on this and the Explorer forum many folks have talked about the 'sweet' or 'round' sound of a target. That never made sense to me. It was just words. When he said Three Axis instead of two axis, there became a new idea for me and it clicked. You see in 3D. If you want to hear in 2D, get a machine that only operates on one frequency as you don't need BBS.

I don't know why I am trying to explain that to you. It seems your mind is closed.

Your references to his ego and showing off, are way off base as others have pointed out...Regards Jim

 

[jimpugh]

this is post i left on another forum where this has become a discussion as well ....

Thank You All

I encourage open mindedness

I also value constructive criticism

My point I tried to make was to imagine sound as a ball with certain influences from iron or rubbish causing the ball to be caved in or flattened
versus a ball that is a symmetrical target that is sweet and deep in good ground.....the other factor is sweep speed and coverage the two are tied together some what ....the sweet spot on your swing speed....
there is a time to go slow and a time to take the cream off the top ...if one waits to long the easy targets will be gone....A time to scout and a time to hunker down .......All this is aimed at making one put their thinking caps on while in the field and focus.....If you have been around and someone handed you your butt on a silver platter.....or cleaned your clock .....then one should strive to be a better hunter and improve your techniques .....

Again Thanks and fire away at will ......Its All GOOD!

Happy Trails
jim pugh


me and Barbara ANN my 84 police shovel

 

[Jeb NWR]

Hi Jim. thank you for your comments.
Look , i really don`t want this to get into a long drawn out nit picking exercise, because quite frankly I made ,as far as I was concerned ,a VALID
assessment of the post in question,and this is my last post on the matter.
Just because i `dared` to criticize a ridiculously over the top post, that was ,if the truth be said was just an extravaganza of superfluous grammar that was designed to impress rather than explain. Like i said ,why go around Florida to get to New york when you can go direct.?
The Post was a mish mash of technical jargon that would be largely inappropriate to the average detectorist . Maybe it could be deciphered by the Professionals of Electrics, Mechanical Engineers ,or other such professions. But to the average man in the street , he may as well have quoted the procedure of how to split the atom.
Sorry ,but I stand by my original post denouncing it as such.
What would you rather i say ? Would you like me to lie ,and say well done buddy , it was a great explanative and wonderful post ?
I told the truth and if a lot of you guys can`t hack the truth then maybe we should all lie to each other and kiss each others backsides ,just to stop us hurting each others feelings.
The post in question was put up on another Forum BY one of the guys on this very forum, as well as myself, and NOT ONE person saw fit to acknowledge it was a good informative post. The exact opposite in fact was the verdict, so i`m obviously not alone in my view of it.
Like i said it was an honest & truthful reply without malice or prejudice, what more can i give. ? I`m sorry if i`ve ruffled a few feathers, but like i said if you can`t accept a truthful answer even if you don`t like it, maybe the people offended shouldn`t be taking part in "debates" on public world wide forums.

DEBATE............... "1" a discussion,as in a legislative body,in which opposing arguments or points are put forward.
"2" Discussion ,or dispute.

 

[Jeb NWR]

***this is a copy of my response on MLO E-trac forum / If THIS is simple Terms ****

"Thank You for the kind comments"

I did not bring my box of colors .....but maybe It may have been called for!

The terminology in brackets { } can be found on any Google search of the

Term "Time Constant" .....

My theories of the analytical process that my mind weighs on targets in milliseconds. Is just that "a try at putting into words 30 years of digging with metal detectors" I have used and sold Minelab since the FT 16000 before the BBS technology......I always try to help others out and I have built and manufactured my own pulse detector the Barracuda.....But I prefer to dig ..... weather it is under water or on land.... I love my E-trac and it is really performing IN MY hands.....In THE FIELD....
So in closing THANKS AGAIN....Like my daddy use to say "You can take a jack ASS to water but you can not make him drink unless you drown the MF"

Happy Trails
Jim Pugh

Yes, Jim, but you conveniently forgot to include the replies you got in return such as .........

" I believe the guy doesn't knows what hes talking about.
He doesn't know how to set up his machine.
Tell him to come over here and we'll set him right."

 

[jimpugh]

You just posted a copy of a reply by Garybrun the owner of Minelab owners Forums reply to Ezrider's post of digitrich post on this forum about
WASTED 1500 Bucks

Many recall I sent my first ETrac back because it couldn't get the depth of my SE's and falsed to 1-29 to1-35 constantly. Well, the new one is the same, only worse in the falsing department. The farmers out here finally cut the corn and beans In just one field I have pulled about 400 hundred Indians, about 200 seated and barbers and about 75 shield and V nickels with my SE's. Some areas are full of flat nails and I thought the ETrac would produce more there.........................................nope. My F-75 seems the only unit fast enough to do it. In the less trashy areas, I ran the ETrac wide open, in all metal, fast on, deep off, low trash, neutral soil, auto +3 and manual....just stable. It falsed in all metal, over and over and over to the 1-29 to 1-35 range constantly. I tried ferrous tones and conduct tones with the same results. I am thoroughly disappointed and unimpressed. This machine not only cannot duplicate the depth of my SE's, it's audio flat out sucks. Try this, swing the ETrac for three straight days and then pick up another Explorer and you tell me if you didn't miss the sweet sounding music. My guess is, and this is for Jim out in New York specifically.......If a guy is already extremely proficient with his SE, the ETrac is a waste of his time....period. Want faster recovery, buy an F-75 or wait till MineLab fixes this blunder of a machine. I will buy the next ETrac only because by then, I would expect Mine Lab to have corrected their obvious mistakes, like the lack of an all metal mode, the destruction of what used to be beautiful tones, the E12 trac issue, the general lack of depth in comparison to their previous models and yes I have had both machines (ETrac and SE) over the same target with the ETrac ID'ing it wrong or not even registering the hit what soever and the SE having NO problem. Yes, the faster processor is nice, but at the cost of stability, depth and ID.........OH, HECK NO!!! Save the "It's not an Explorer" for the suckers....I know it's not an Explorer, it's more like a Bounty Hunter, excellent separation with crappy tones to a depth of 4-6 inches....oh gee, now I can hunt clad in a playground....joy.....joy. Yes, "it's not an Explorer".........it could never be an Explorer without a great deal of improvement. This thing would have to study to be stupid!!!! Shame on you MineLab "It maybe my soil"... but the funny thing is....My SE's and my F-75 don't have a problem with it. I am going to see if I can't trade it off to some one for the new Whites PI, maybe a deeper machine is the ticket in these fields for what's left now. For the guys who want to pick up an Explorer and shorten the learning curve to nearly zero, the Etrac is a God send......but what are they going to do when they have gridded out their local spots and the finds are getting thin???? I honestly feel a competent Explorer 1/2/SE user and/or F-75 user would still find things the ETrac can't and won't. I have this nasty habit of disliking going backwards. Sorry to sugar coat it......I didn't want to offend anyone.

guess ZEB got his wires CROSSED.......
My finds speak for themselves......Love my e-trac

Happy Trails
Jim Pugh

 

[Jeb NWR]

sorry Jim but this is the post (digitrich`s )I WAS referring to although yours was mentioned (my pardon), . Maybe the posts are getting tangled a tad,but the` initial `Post reference isn`t.
For the record,to exonerate the mistake of reference to Jim's post. It was Digitrichs post I was referring to, and any reference to Jim `s was a mistake made by myself and my sincere apologies to Jim. I`m getting my EZriders and my Thunderhomes mixed up,I guess with that may posts flying around on this Issue over Digitrichs post things are becoming slightly confusing due to Jim and others defending him, its getting awkward trying to remember who said what half the time, this is why in my last post i did say i was not going to say any more on this matter. So may this with your approval be the `last` on this issue, otherwise were in danger of over cooking the meal. i would think.
PS Jim ,it`s Jeb not Zeb. ! If your going to have to resort to twisting names about to try to score cheap hits for some unknown reason, then that says a lot to me. Have a good `n m8.(day)

 

[jimpugh]

n/t