Relic of a different sort...need help from you small arms guys.

[Shane (Arkansas)]

Hi guys. Ok, so I didn't dig this up with my detector, but it was technically a relic find. Back in the 1930's in Arkansas, there was a severe drought. The mighty White River of the Civil War era was down to a trickle. An historian from the St. Charles area and some of his buddies went down into the river bed and pulled load after load of relics from the river. Some Confederate and some Union. St. Charles was a very active area. This long gun was one of the pieces that survived. It was buried in the silt and amazingly the stock survived. The old guy put some type of paint/varnish on the metal which protected it well. Unfortunately all of the writing/markings are too difficult to read. Can anyone help me ID this model by sight? I know it is not a regulation piece and probably was a pre-war gun that some poor Southern boy brought up from the farm, but any help will be appreciated.

Shane (Arkansas)

 

[Nemo]

Would be nice to know total length of weapon and caliber and barrel grooves but, disregarding these, my guess is a Model 1840 or 1842 French or Belgian Copy of French Rifle. The Model 1842 is my favorite because of the bolster forge to top of barrel. Fore stock has been whittled down from the original. Both weapons were known as the "Carbine de Munition" (check writing on lock against underline might be able to make out rest).

I am not an expert in this. Used "Firearms From Europe - Second Edition" by Whisker et al. for my guess.

Anyone else have a guess??

Dave Poche

 

[Shane (Arkansas)]

Thanks Dave. I forgot to list the other info. The bore is badly corroded, but it looks smooth. It's at least a .69 but maybe a .72. I'm leaning .69. Again, with the water damage it is hard to tell. Overall length is 49 3/4". It is not Carbine de Munition on the lock plate. The first line is "Mr" then a space and "R......". Second line "de Mal...." . I think it is Mal. I know the first letter is M. The rest are just too hard to read. I also see what looks like an inspectors mark. It is a D with a star above it.

Shane (Arkansas)

 

[Nemo]

Shane: M1840 and 1842 were 48.5 overall but M1846, 1853 and 1859 were 49.75 inches overall . all were .71 caliber. There are differences in the barrel length. The lock was converted in the Belgian brazed style. and is much older that than those of M1846 - M1859. You might have a Belgian "Saturday Night Special" put together with parts from to different models

Here is something else, "Markings vary, French manufactured arms have the lockplate stamped to indicate the manufacturing arsenal" One of those stamps was Mre. Rle. de Mutzig. The barrels of French weapons have the model number stamped on the breech tang and the year of manufacture on the barrel. If the weapon was altered (this one was) a letter "T" (transformed) was stamped after the model number. You might look for these.

Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Look where the nipple is located. It appears to have an altered stock (cut down) but probably a post war alteration into a shotgun. Coming out of the silt...I truly doubt the stock came out of silt/river. I've seen those and they shrink quickly as they dry. Shellac won't stop that. Metal parts could have been salvaged however from the river. My humble opinion is you have a home made shotgun. Interesting find. Bring it to Nashville this weekend. Experts from all over will be at the Nashville civil war show at the fairgrounds. The largest in the nation with over 1,000 dealer/exhibitor tables and a modern gun show next door. Best be gettin' yer tanks, ballistic missles, jets and bombs before the new Change comes into office. They intend on taking all.....
David@Dixie