Recovery Speed “anomaly”

[earthmansurfer]

I noticed a couple of weeks back during my first hunt in park 2, that a faster recovery speed (e.g. 7) created more of a clipped sound vs a slower recovery speed (e.g. 3.) Nothing shocking there. But I wanted to test a slower recovery speed in light of some people reporting great results with a slow recovery speed in a more trashy environment, albeit swung more slowly.

Todays settings were park 1, auto tracking (I think it was around 22-26 if memory serves me correctly), gain of 24, no disc from 1 on up, 50 tones (My E-Trac, or rather CTX memory ;-) ) and a slow recovery speed of 2.

So, I got a deep signal today (with my recovery at 2) - The target clearly has a longer sound as well.. I swing quite a bit slower with the slower recovery setting. But it was only a 1 way hit around a 29 or so. There was a 15-20 mixed in there. That was actually the more consistent number. The old ring part of the pull tab here are around 15 most of the time. So, I thought I might have something good next to one as the 29 was very reproducable. Pinpointing showing something small and deeper.

I decided to try the recovery speed at 7 and I no longer was able to get the 29 VID number! I WOULD NOT have found the target with that recovery speed setting. Note, I did swing the machine quicker to make sure, but that didn’t help (and I played around with angles and swing speeds here). I don't think it was the depth, but that is something I will have to check in the future.

Around 7” down there was a smaller than dime sized child’s pennant. It rant at around a 20 though. I checked the whole and a bit less than a coil widths away was a 15, which I didn’t bother digging.

No video, but a pic.

EMS

 

[Nuke em]

I have done 2 searches with my 800 and the first search i struggled to find deep targets , yesterday i used a low recovery setting and i got some deeper targets .
I think the machine is fine but i cannot get to grips with audio settings which seem quiet to me even with Gray Ghost headphones . Many targets seem very quiet even close to the surface.

The Equinox looks easy but i think its starting to look like a CTX's little Sister LOL

 

[jas415]

Looks like to me that if you jack up the recovery speed the sweep speed goes down in trashy areas. I just cant seem to figure out the correct ratios/settings of iron bias, recovery and sweep speeds for deep trashy areas. Hopefully the smaller coil will aid a bit. Shallow, less than maybe 6", just a guess, seems to have very little issue with targets and stable numbers, but deeper than that has proven to be a challenge for me.

 

[Cutaplug]

After doing some simple air testing I realized that with a recovery speed of 7 or 8 it would only get about 3" depth on a silver mercury dime. When lowering the recovery speed to 1 I was able to get about 12-13" on a merc dime. So recovery speed greatly changes depth capability for sure. Bill S also told me that to get depth you need to have Iron Bias at zero which makes sense. I ran Iron Bias at zero all day yesterday and had no issues even at a sensitivity of 22 so I think it's safe to say that Iron Bias should be a zero most of the time. So for max depth I would run Iron Bias at zero and recovery speed at 3 or less, ideally 1. With that being said is there a way to change the tones on the eq 800? Seems like a low recover speed changes the audio tone to more of a long smooth sound that sort of drives me nuts lol.

 

[Cutaplug]

P.S. Glad to see you back to detecting @Earthmansurfer =)

 

[Nuke em]

After doing some simple air testing I realized that with a recovery speed of 7 or 8 it would only get about 3" depth on a silver mercury dime. When lowering the recovery speed to 1 I was able to get about 12-13" on a merc dime. So recovery speed greatly changes depth capability for sure. Bill S also told me that to get depth you need to have Iron Bias at zero which makes sense. I ran Iron Bias at zero all day yesterday and had no issues even at a sensitivity of 22 so I think it's safe to say that Iron Bias should be a zero most of the time. So for max depth I would run Iron Bias at zero and recovery speed at 3 or less, ideally 1. With that being said is there a way to change the tones on the eq 800? Seems like a low recover speed changes the audio tone to more of a long smooth sound that sort of drives me nuts lol.

Well if we have to use such low recovery speed then why not stay with our slow ET / Explorer's and such !
Tomorrow i will be out with my Explorer 11 , it has good sounds , good depth and good enough recovery speed . I need depth right now even if my arm will ache.

 

[Cutaplug]

haha ya I guess we need to do a side by side recovery speed test with eq 800 set on low to see how fast recovery is at it's low settings. I just got my eq yesterday and made the mistake of running the default recovery speed of 6 and can see now that is a huge no no if you want any depth at all. Was wondering why I didn't get any deeper stuff so came home to test. I'm not expecting miracles from the eq 800 but if it can do as well as the etrac or CTX on silver coins then it will be an amazing machine because it far exceeds them on the gold stuff.

 

[wayne_etc]

Good to know.

The faster recovery speed option was the one thing I felt I was missing by getting a 600 rather than an 800. Made the right choice.

w

 

[wayne_etc]

Good info.


BTW...love your videos.


w

 

[calabash digger]

the faster recovery speed of 6 or 7 is for hunting nail beds where depth doesn't matter so much. At 4 or 5 its plenty deep and still fast ..

 

[Cutaplug]

the faster recovery speed of 6 or 7 is for hunting nail beds where depth doesn't matter so much. At 4 or 5 its plenty deep and still fast ..

They have default 6 or 7 on most modes except park 1 which is 5. So Park 2, Field 1, and Field 2 are all for high trash areas which leaves only Park 1 for general detecting. I guess it would be nice if they had one mode for low trash and deep targets which is where a lot of detectorists will gain an advantage with minelab machines. I'm just afraid a lot of users will see park 2 or field 1 or 2 modes and automatically think they will be great for depth when actually they are very bad for mid to deeper silver at the default settings.

One other thing I noticed is that Park 2 seems to go very deep on both silver and gold when air testing. The modes have an underlying frequency weighing that usually leans toward high or low end of khz but with Park 2 seems like there really isn't a heavy weighing at either end of the range, even though they say it is for fine jewelry (higher frequency weighing).

 

[earthmansurfer]

Nuke em - Good to see you hear. I think the recovery speed pointers here should help you re depth.

jas415 - Pretty much yes, got to watch that recovery speed and adjust for your conditions (it looks like.) Good point on smaller coil, but I wonder why Minelab has the recovery speed up so high as default?

Cutaplug - lol, great handle. WOW, 3" on a dime? I have to test that and do so in the ground as well (some video). As I just said to jas415, what was Minelab thinking with the recovery speed up so high at 6? It kills depth which is not a Minelabe trait.
Glad you mentioned iron bias, as I hadn't changed it to zero (one of the park settings has it up higher I remember reading.) Re changing tones - I think in the advanced menu there is (pitch and such.)
Thanks for the nice words, looking forward to more videos but I need a better spot, targets are sparse...

wayne_etc - Thanks, more videos on the way. Interesting regarding the 600 vs 800 btw. I actually prefer lower speeds, not so much into speed as I am depth. And when given the choice I still err towards speed.

callabash_digger - I will for sure try to find that honey spot re speeds.

Thanks for taking the time guys...

 

[Nuke em]

Nuke em - Good to see you hear. I think the recovery speed pointers here should help you re depth.

jas415 - Pretty much yes, got to watch that recovery speed and adjust for your conditions (it looks like.) Good point on smaller coil, but I wonder why Minelab has the recovery speed up so high as default?

Cutaplug - lol, great handle. WOW, 3" on a dime? I have to test that and do so in the ground as well (some video). As I just said to jas415, what was Minelab thinking with the recovery speed up so high at 6? It kills depth which is not a Minelabe trait.
Glad you mentioned iron bias, as I hadn't changed it to zero (one of the park settings has it up higher I remember reading.) Re changing tones - I think in the advanced menu there is (pitch and such.)
Thanks for the nice words, looking forward to more videos but I need a better spot, targets are sparse...

wayne_etc - Thanks, more videos on the way. Interesting regarding the 600 vs 800 btw. I actually prefer lower speeds, not so much into speed as I am depth. And when given the choice I still err towards speed.

callabash_digger - I will for sure try to find that honey spot re speeds.

Thanks for taking the time guys...

I used it in beach 1 the first time and was getting lousy depth on coins . Yesterday i used it and set it up my way with recovery at 2 to 4 , improved a bit but not as much as i would have liked . If set at 1 or 2 then its as slow as the Explorer / ET / CTX ! Defeats the object .
Your not the only one that wonders why the default setting for Recovery is so high .

I am going to buy a new X.Terra 705 and run both on my Anderson shaft during the long sessions i do , 1 on the dry and the other on the wet .

Going by my experience with the Terra 705 . I think that is the better of the two machines on the dry tops . You can set it up with less chance of getting it wrong . The NOX is like the CTX , get it wrong it punishes you and tides change everything , no time for getting it wrong .

I was right about the Nox , its a multi freq Terra . But it is too set towards Gold and it has lost some of its !!!! or has it ? Still trying to work out what it has and what it hasn't.

 

[calabash digger]

Park 2 seems to be the deepest ive found too. I have a 7 1/2 inch gold hoop earring open (its small) and a 10 to 10 1/2 inch merc in my garden. I can hit both in my garden good in park 2. ( BTW the Deus and Nox are the only 2 detectors that can see the small hoop CTX, ETRAC, AT SERIES, F75 ETC can not). Recovery speeds of 4 and 5 of course hit it better than 6 or 7.... I have dealt with the same thing with the deus , higher speeds cut depth by a good bit... The Nox is gonna be like the deus a couple tweaks and it will be smoking,. Now we got to figure out the best general speed which gives depth and good seperatiion. I'm thinking 4 or 5 but will keep you guys updated. In my test IRON BIAS was a factor too. on zero it high toned on nails but on 2 it stopped that pretty much. That setting least would be best IMO . Reminds me of silencer on deus... seems like the settings of the deus except with different names....

the faster recovery speed of 6 or 7 is for hunting nail beds where depth doesn't matter so much. At 4 or 5 its plenty deep and still fast ..

They have default 6 or 7 on most modes except park 1 which is 5. So Park 2, Field 1, and Field 2 are all for high trash areas which leaves only Park 1 for general detecting. I guess it would be nice if they had one mode for low trash and deep targets which is where a lot of detectorists will gain an advantage with minelab machines. I'm just afraid a lot of users will see park 2 or field 1 or 2 modes and automatically think they will be great for depth when actually they are very bad for mid to deeper silver at the default settings.

One other thing I noticed is that Park 2 seems to go very deep on both silver and gold when air testing. The modes have an underlying frequency weighing that usually leans toward high or low end of khz but with Park 2 seems like there really isn't a heavy weighing at either end of the range, even though they say it is for fine jewelry (higher frequency weighing).

 

[jas415]

This is the sort of conversation that will make or break the Equinox. Experienced diggers doing tweaks.

In really heavy nails and trash areas, yes I still find stuff, but not with the clarity of the CTX, and that may just be my 'mental comfort and confidence' with a machine with almost 6 years of use. It is very obvious it is a very versatile machine, but the 'land' side of it needs serious tweaking for use in the heavy trash areas. I hunt pretty slow with the CTX, so slow sweep speeds are not an issue with me, I just need to get really comfortable with some system which will give me the confidence that I am 'hitting' stuff that is there. I am not trying to find 10-15" deep targets, I am after the 1-10" stuff.

 

[calabash digger]

I set the five tone bins up where pretty much high tones on all non ferrous with subtle variation through the tone bins.. cut iron down on 2 vol and others 25 vol where non ferrous scream. If this works well in iron I will share it. I was trying to mimic my deus pitch iron program. BTW this for relics in iron only.....

 

[earthmansurfer]

This is the sort of conversation that will make or break the Equinox. Experienced diggers doing tweaks.

In really heavy nails and trash areas, yes I still find stuff, but not with the clarity of the CTX, and that may just be my 'mental comfort and confidence' with a machine with almost 6 years of use. It is very obvious it is a very versatile machine, but the 'land' side of it needs serious tweaking for use in the heavy trash areas. I hunt pretty slow with the CTX, so slow sweep speeds are not an issue with me, I just need to get really comfortable with some system which will give me the confidence that I am 'hitting' stuff that is there. I am not trying to find 10-15" deep targets, I am after the 1-10" stuff.

Big YES regarding the tweaks. And on top of that I am really curious about using Gold 2 on coins (Someone mentioned that it was extremely deep).
Clearly this machine, when you take all the modes into account (which changes how things work in Multi Frequency), is one that can get you in trouble. If you stick with a few modes and perhaps slowly learn the other modes, things should be safe.
I realized early on with this machine that it really isn't just a turn and go E-Trac. FBS seemed much much more kind regarding settings changes. That said, you can probably tweek this bad boy to your soil, and get a bit more out of her.

 

[Trashfinder]

I am finding coins at 8 inches in park 2, recovery 6 no problems, but i am not whipping the coil either. I am using a 2-3 second sweep speed from one side to the other. Found a barber dime at 7 inches no problem a few days ago , rock solid ID and tone. Park 2 , recovery 6. I am manual GB my machine and no auto. and noise canceling fairly often. I experimented with recovery 4 in trash and seemed to separate pretty well.

 

[Cutaplug]

Well my bad guys I think I completely botched that air test somehow. Not sure how I got 3” before on recovery 8 but went back and double checked it again today and got 8-9” in recovery 8 and 13-14” on recovery 1. Sorry about that .

@ Nuke em
I hear ya lol Did some testing with etrac and e 800 today and the e 800 held it’s own when it comes to depth. The VID was much more jumpy on the 800 on deeper targets but maybe there is some information in the bouncing that I have yet to discover. Need to do several more hunts before I know much. I plan on pounding a few residential with the e 800 then hitting them with the etrac to see if I miss anything. Would also like to get some good silver signals with the etrac and flag them to dig with the 800.

@Wayne etc
Thanks for the kinds words =) At setting 6 the 800 is very fast. It would probably be rare that you would use 7 or 8 and you could get a small coil to sort of compensate for that if you wanted.

@Earthman
I prefer low trash, soft soil and deep coins as well but when I moved to TN it’s all red clay and shallow stuff here. I’m lucky to get 7” in the red stuff. There are pockets of the deeper stuff here and there but sort of hard to come by. I remember when I first got my etrac I was watching your silver live digs you had the best on the net =)

@ jas415
When you say you find stuff but not with the clarity of CTX are you talking about the vid numbers? I feel like they bounce around a lot on the 800 but need to dig a lot more signals to see if I’m able to decipher the code.

@calabash
I think the e 800 is going to be a game changer for beach hunting. Doing an air test I also noticed the only settings that would pick up a very thin gold chain were Park 2, Gold 1 and Gold 2. AT Pro wouldn’t touch it. Can’t wait to get in the water with it, maybe I need a thicker wet suit. Were you able to get a 10” merc on recovery 4 repeatedly? If so did the numbers jump all over the place and streak high to like 38-39? Wondering if we create a mental average of these jumping numbers in our mind if we'll eventually be able to tell wheat from silver dime.

Something pretty cool happened today with recovery speed. I had a chance to get out for about an hour today at a permission and got a good signal up by the home’s front steps where there was a decent amount of trash. Running in recovery 4 I got a decent high tone that was repeatable but cutting out. Raised the recovery to 7 and it separated perfectly and sounded loud and clear in all directions. Lowered recovery to 2 and pretty much lost the signal completely, even when swinging very slowly. Dug it up and it was a wheatie at about 3-4 inches. The size/shape of the field under the coils changing due to recovery speed seemed hypothetical on the CTX/etrac but can be easily noticed on the 800.

Unlike the CTX /Etrac the recovery speed on the e 800 is a very serious setting lol. It was pretty amazing though cause I was able to hit the large open areas of the yard on recovery 3-4 and then when I got closer to the house around the driveway and front entrance where lots of trash was I bumped it up to 6-7 and was sneaking signals out left and right. In the past if I got to a house that had a lot of trash with the etrac I just left and found one with low trash lol.

 

[bigelow]

After doing some simple air testing I realized that with a recovery speed of 7 or 8 it would only get about 3" depth on a silver mercury dime. When lowering the recovery speed to 1 I was able to get about 12-13" on a merc dime. So recovery speed greatly changes depth capability for sure. Bill S also told me that to get depth you need to have Iron Bias at zero which makes sense. I ran Iron Bias at zero all day yesterday and had no issues even at a sensitivity of 22 so I think it's safe to say that Iron Bias should be a zero most of the time. So for max depth I would run Iron Bias at zero and recovery speed at 3 or less, ideally 1. With that being said is there a way to change the tones on the eq 800? Seems like a low recover speed changes the audio tone to more of a long smooth sound that sort of drives me nuts lol.

**oops I see now above you figured something out to get normal depths, anyhow heres my video test to help anyone who it may**

something wrong with your machine here I just ran different modes air testing Park 1 at max recovery ( 8 ) i hit a merc at 6-7" clearly and deeper im sure with headphones recovery (1) nearly 12"
https://youtu.be/NrnEy4WehGo