Really Liking The 7" Wide Scan Coil On The Outlaw

[Bill G]

I really like the 7" Wide Scan or DD coil on the Outlaw. It is smooth running, pin points spot on and cuts through trash easier than the 8" concentric coil. It also gets about or as much if not the same depth in the ground in my area and that's what matters. So far very good depth about the length of my Leche blade on a few targets but most coins in this area are 2" to 4" followed by 4" to 6" on average. I come to this conclusion after about 15 years of hunting and a few different detectors brands used in this area. Also in my air test both coils the 7" DD & the 8" are very close to each other in depth as well on dime's, nickel's, quarter's, Pennie's and other items tested, so close it was not worth measuring to get the exact differences if any. Maybe a hair more and I say hair more on the 8" concentric in air test. The air test was done like the manuel says to do it. I set the detector on a wood table no metal items any where I turned the ground balance knob two turns counter clockwise then tried different levels of power and distances with targets on each coil. One thing I noticed is when I turned the threshold up all the way in disk mode I got about a 1/4" maybe a 1/2" more in depth (more noticable at higher gain levels) on average in air testing on the targets, it was not much but it was noticable.

One things the Outlaw does really well is it pin points so well in disk mode you really do not have to use the re-tune button unless you want too. For coin size items just X the target or wiggle the coil back and forth a little and bang the targets right in the middle of the coil. The re-tune function is cool when you get it down and works well if you want a tool to help assist you in the size of a target like a can or a long piece of pipe in the ground or as a pin point aid as designed, works great. For me it's just that the outlaw again pin points so well it save me time just bypassing even using the re-tune button most times for me.

Another thing for me I like the audio sound of the Outlaw better with the 7" DD or wide scan coil better just sounds smoother yet, anyway I am loving this coil on the Outlaw.

Take Care All,
Bill G

 

[Bill G]

Meant to say in above post about air test info done.

I turned the ground balance knob two turns counter clockwise then one clockwise.

Forgot,
then one clockwise

The manual also says the position of the GB knob does not matter for air testing but suggest or mentions the above procedure for checking proper feel or operation of the GB knob.

Take Care All,
Bill G

 

[Mega]

That has been some great information,although i dont own the Outlaw i do own and use both the 8'' polo and 7'' widescan as well,never really been a fan on concentric coils i guess because of the critical overlapping that is require of this type of coil,i use 2 Tesoro machine on is the Silver Sabre 11 and the other machine is based on the Bandido 11 but made for the UK market and called a Lasor B3.What is encouraging about what you have mentioned is that they both give about the same type of depth,so basically if that is the case i will try the 7'' coil back on my machine.

The main reason i use these machines is that they are some of the best detectors on our trashy Roman and Saxon sites as the discrimination is one of the best going.

Thanks for your input and thoughts about these 2 coils,certainly has helped me choose which one to go for.

 

[Monte]

I really like the 7" Wide Scan or DD coil on the Outlaw.

It's always good to be comfortable with both a detector and search coil choice.

It is smooth running, pin points spot on and cuts through trash easier than the 8" concentric coil.

"Smooth running" is often a combination of both the search coils size/shape/design and the detector choice/settings plus the site environment. I know a lot of folks have difficulty pinpointing with a DD design, and it is generally proven and acknowledged that a Concentric coil can and will pinpoint a bit tighter than a similar-size Double-D coil, I will, however, agree that you can pinpoint reasonably easy with your detector/coil combo because some just work 'better' than others. It's also easier due to the smaller-size of DD you are using.

It also gets about or as much if not the same depth in the ground in my area and that's what matters. So far very good depth about the length of my Leche blade on a few targets but most coins in this area are 2" to 4" followed by 4" to 6" on average. I come to this conclusion after about 15 years of hunting and a few different detectors brands used in this area.

Most know I am not the biggest fan of a DD coil, although I do use a few on certain models on occasion, but I prefer Concentric coils for most of my hunting needs. I also worked with a lot of Tesoro models since '83 when I took them on when they released the Inca. It really enhanced my success in the ghost towns and similar trashier/brushier sites I preferred to hunt.

I was a Tesoro dealer for most of the time from '83 thru late '04 and I worked with a lot of coils, side-by-side, in tests or just field use. MY preferred search coil was the 7" Concentric because it provided better balance and 'feel' and fit well in the brushy sites and working in and around building rubble. I got good performance and the depth-of-detection was close to [size=small](that means almost)[/size] the same as the stock 8" coils. The 8", both the early thinner-version white colored open-center and the thicker brown [size=small](white with the Outlaw)[/size], usually gave just a hint better depth in most environments over the 7" Concentric. I never had a 7" Wide-Scan that could match the depth and performance of the 7" Concentric coils.

I have experienced some differences between coils of the same size/type, especially with some Tesoro products and used to kind of "hand pick" the best coils [size=small](and detectors)[/size] that came through. If you have a 7" DD that seems 'hotter' than the 8" Concentric cou have, I would wonder if you just happen to have a rather 'hot' 7" DD or maybe a wimpy 8" Concentric?

Also in my air test both coils the 7" DD & the 8" are very close to each other in depth as well on dime's, nickel's, quarter's, Pennie's and other items tested, so close it was not worth measuring to get the exact differences if any. Maybe a hair more and I say hair more on the 8" concentric in air test.

I would expect the 8" Concentric to provide "a hair more" air test or in-the-ground depth.

The air test was done like the manuel says to do it. I set the detector on a wood table no metal items any where I turned the ground balance knob two turns counter clockwise then tried different levels of power and distances with targets on each coil. One thing I noticed is when I turned the threshold up all the way in disk mode I got about a 1/4" maybe a 1/2" more in depth (more noticable at higher gain levels) on average in air testing on the targets, it was not much but it was noticable.

I would never use the manual suggestions to "air test" but instead set the GB for the typical ground I would be searching. I would also use a full-range of US coins, from a 5

 

[Bill G]

I really like the 7" Wide Scan or DD coil on the Outlaw.

It's always good to be comfortable with both a detector and search coil choice.

It is smooth running, pin points spot on and cuts through trash easier than the 8" concentric coil.

"Smooth running" is often a combination of both the search coils size/shape/design and the detector choice/settings plus the site environment. I know a lot of folks have difficulty pinpointing with a DD design, and it is generally proven and acknowledged that a Concentric coil can and will pinpoint a bit tighter than a similar-size Double-D coil, I will, however, agree that you can pinpoint reasonably easy with your detector/coil combo because some just work 'better' than others. It's also easier due to the smaller-size of DD you are using.

It also gets about or as much if not the same depth in the ground in my area and that's what matters. So far very good depth about the length of my Leche blade on a few targets but most coins in this area are 2" to 4" followed by 4" to 6" on average. I come to this conclusion after about 15 years of hunting and a few different detectors brands used in this area.

Most know I am not the biggest fan of a DD coil, although I do use a few on certain models on occasion, but I prefer Concentric coils for most of my hunting needs. I also worked with a lot of Tesoro models since '83 when I took them on when they released the Inca. It really enhanced my success in the ghost towns and similar trashier/brushier sites I preferred to hunt.

I was a Tesoro dealer for most of the time from '83 thru late '04 and I worked with a lot of coils, side-by-side, in tests or just field use. MY preferred search coil was the 7" Concentric because it provided better balance and 'feel' and fit well in the brushy sites and working in and around building rubble. I got good performance and the depth-of-detection was close to [size=small](that means almost)[/size] the same as the stock 8" coils. The 8", both the early thinner-version white colored open-center and the thicker brown [size=small](white with the Outlaw)[/size], usually gave just a hint better depth in most environments over the 7" Concentric. I never had a 7" Wide-Scan that could match the depth and performance of the 7" Concentric coils.

I have experienced some differences between coils of the same size/type, especially with some Tesoro products and used to kind of "hand pick" the best coils [size=small](and detectors)[/size] that came through. If you have a 7" DD that seems 'hotter' than the 8" Concentric cou have, I would wonder if you just happen to have a rather 'hot' 7" DD or maybe a wimpy 8" Concentric?

Also in my air test both coils the 7" DD & the 8" are very close to each other in depth as well on dime's, nickel's, quarter's, Pennie's and other items tested, so close it was not worth measuring to get the exact differences if any. Maybe a hair more and I say hair more on the 8" concentric in air test.

I would expect the 8" Concentric to provide "a hair more" air test or in-the-ground depth.

The air test was done like the manuel says to do it. I set the detector on a wood table no metal items any where I turned the ground balance knob two turns counter clockwise then tried different levels of power and distances with targets on each coil. One thing I noticed is when I turned the threshold up all the way in disk mode I got about a 1/4" maybe a 1/2" more in depth (more noticable at higher gain levels) on average in air testing on the targets, it was not much but it was noticable.

I would never use the manual suggestions to "air test" but instead set the GB for the typical ground I would be searching. I would also use a full-range of US coins, from a 5

You know Monte I don't doubt your experience and you are quite good at translating that to people, have read many of your posting over the years. But as far as the air testing goes I did what the manual says I think the Giffords know what there talking about when it comes to there detectors and what they say to do in the manual when testing and operating them. As I stated it was an air test on a table not in the ground and the manual says it does not matter where the ground knob is for this test and I quote the other step was to check proper function of the ground balance knob before air testing according to the manual. Another thing I did use a full range of US coins for the air testing and the same setting between the 8" concentric and the 7" DD Wide Scan coils. The depth and performance I stated are what they are and true. We all know there are many variables to coil performance, smoothness and depth without going into all the details that I and most that have detected for years know just like you. As far as pin pointing goes with the 7" Tesoro Wide Scan DD it is exactly what I said spot on right in the middle right in front of the pole connection dead center. Yes I like you have used other DD coils that were a little more tricky and you had to use a few different tricks to pin point with them correctly.

With all do respect I don't think I have a wimpy 8" concentric coil and a hotter than normal DD or wide scan coil as you suggested ( The reasoning for this is my 8" coil is getting the same reported depth as other Outlaw users with there 8" coils ). I really think that DD coils today are just simply made better. I am doing my best not to disagree with you or contradict you here but the results I stated are what they are. I on the other hand un-like you prefer the feel and performance of DD coils for reasons as already stated in original post, this is a personal preference. Again DD coils are much better today than DD coils of the past in my humble opinion.

Take Care And Happy Hunting,
Bill G

 

[Coin$triking Michigan]

I personally have used dd and concentric coils since I started detecting over twenty years ago. The only difference I have noticed with double d coils is a negative. They are much worse on round, rusty items like crown style bottle caps. Other than that I haven't noticed a significant difference either way. I imagine the folks who detect the hotter ground may prefer double d coils but in regular mild soil I see a concentric deeper and better for discrimination. I guess it all boils down to your specific ground.

 

[Mega]

The sole reason is use Widescan or DD coils over here in the UK it makes no odd what the location is really is the fact that the swing overlap is not so critical,especially when i am on a club dig which is usally on a sunday we have maybe a 8-9hours of detecting time to cover the land that we are allocated.So although i dont swing like a madman by using a 2 D coil you can cover slightly more ground quicker because of the design of these coils.

But if i am on my own permission and dont have the clock ticking and i can go at my own speed then i possibly could use a Concentric coil but if i am honest i still prefer a DD coil on what ever detector i use,apart from my Pulse machine which only allows Mono coils.

The bottom line is what ever you are happy using,if a DD coil works best on your machine and your happy using it that in my mind is all that matters

 

[kaolinwasher]

I loved that 7" DD on the outlaw it was deeper when the ground got more Iron in it , I miss the outlaw , someday I want to get another but am to way broke now the thing I like about it the outlaw is its not hyper its real mellow, no it is not as deep as the Vaquero but in that 1st 5 to 7" its real sweet . I have owned a bliss tool and it is deep but when you just want that 1st layer the outlaw is so smooth. I like it

 

[Bill G]

I loved that 7" DD on the outlaw it was deeper when the ground got more Iron in it , I miss the outlaw , someday I want to get another but am to way broke now the thing I like about it the outlaw is its not hyper its real mellow, no it is not as deep as the Vaquero but in that 1st 5 to 7" its real sweet . I have owned a bliss tool and it is deep but when you just want that 1st layer the outlaw is so smooth. I like it

Yes I hear you friend,

I don't know if it's a Tesoro thing or an Outlaw thing but the 7" DD does really well on the Outlaw I like it better than the 8" concentric coil and the funny thing is it also seems to pretty much discriminate over all as well as the 8" concentric but like most DD coils it likes steel crown type caps and round steel washers as mentioned by another poster but I find that manageable and part of the game. I like the blade affect of the DD coils over all better and how they slice through the ground over the cone affect of the concentric type coils ( just a personal preference ). With that said on a small sniper type concentric coil the cone type signal can work nicely and I really like them. Both style coils are good and do the jobs they were designed to do. To some folks if you say that you prefer one type or the other they got to prove for what ever reason the other type is better because that's what they like, oh well. Again both style coils work great for me and work good on the Outlaw detector and one or the other may be a better choice for a certain application over the other and or preferred by a person that likes that style coil.

The key thing is it works for the operator and they feel confidant using it, that in it self will give a guy more success.

Happy Hunting,
Bill G

 

[Bill G]

I personally have used dd and concentric coils since I started detecting over twenty years ago. The only difference I have noticed with double d coils is a negative. They are much worse on round, rusty items like crown style bottle caps. Other than that I haven't noticed a significant difference either way. I imagine the folks who detect the hotter ground may prefer double d coils but in regular mild soil I see a concentric deeper and better for discrimination. I guess it all boils down to your specific ground.

I agree with your observation here in general and as I have mentioned before I like the slicing through the ground affect of the DD coils over the cone affect of the concentric coils ( Just a personal preference) I don't on average find a big difference in depth over all in our ground between the two types of coils but we do have some mineralized ground in places for sure. Like you said above, other than that I haven't noticed a significant difference either way that is the case for me as well.


Happy Hunting,
Bill G

 

[Rainyday101]

I have a lot of fishing lures, but only use a few. They are the ones I have confidence in. Same with detector coils.

 

[hihosilver]

While I don't own the Outlaw, I could not agree with you more Bill G on that 7 inch widescan. I bought one for my Golden uMax and it has not come off, all of the advantages you remarked about are true with this coil on the Golden. Some have remarked that a DD coil looses discrimination ability with the steel bottle caps, but this has not been my experience, they still sound like junk and if I dig one up, it is only because I have chosen to dig an iffy signal. In fact, I found that the DD did a better job at discriminating the deeper aluminum, giving a clearer middle tone. The concentric was more easily fooled by deeper pull tabs, sounding with a soft high tone... But not so with the widescan.

 

[Bill G]

While I don't own the Outlaw, I could not agree with you more Bill G on that 7 inch widescan. I bought one for my Golden uMax and it has not come off, all of the advantages you remarked about are true with this coil on the Golden. Some have remarked that a DD coil looses discrimination ability with the steel bottle caps, but this has not been my experience, they still sound like junk and if I dig one up, it is only because I have chosen to dig an iffy signal. In fact, I found that the DD did a better job at discriminating the deeper aluminum, giving a clearer middle tone. The concentric was more easily fooled by deeper pull tabs, sounding with a soft high tone... But not so with the widescan.

Thanks for your feedback, it sounds like you have had the same experience with the 7 DD" coil as I have. I could not agree with you more and when I said and I quote myself here (QUOTE) I don't know if it's a Tesoro thing or an Outlaw thing but the 7" DD does really well on the Outlaw I like it better than the 8" concentric coil and the funny thing is it also seems to pretty much discriminate over all as well as the 8" concentric but like most DD coils it likes steel crown type caps and round steel washers as mentioned by another poster but I find that manageable and part of the game (END QUOTE ) Let me clarify the statement a little more about steel washers and screw caps. The 7" DD is real sensitive to them like other DD coils but the Tesoro 7"DD discriminates them very well as you stated, much better than some other brand DD I have used over the years. That's what I meant when I said I find that manageable and part of the game but I really did not go into any detail at that point.

Others such as old Monte and I know he means well is his ever so detailed way as he does every now and then to folks tried to say that the performance we are getting on the Tesoro Outlaw and your Golden uMax with the 7" DD coil compared to the 8" concentric, well that cant be. From a tech stand point the concentric is suppose to perform better in regular ground and discriminate better but that's not always the case. My findings are what they are concerning the 7" DD coil and the 8" concentric coil use on my detector. With folks like Monte and others with there tech jargon and years of selling Tesoros that stuff only go so far with all do respect. I am not making this stuff up and your performance with the 7" DD coil on your detector confirms my statements about it. It just plain performs and discriminates well.

Also what you said about aluminum pull tabs is spot on with the 7" DD coil.

Happy Hunting,
Bill G

 

[Monte]

Okay, three attempts to post and they only did about a paragraph, even after two edit attempts.

I'll post my reply when they fix the Forum.