Kickindirt said:
Monte did u just say the only machines to rival the makro/nokta machines were 3 tesoros? 
What I said, and I quote:
"
The only brand to rival the number of Makro and Nokta detectors were 3 Tesoro models which, as I knew they could, worked well in the iron infested old town sites."
I simply noted that there were 3 Tesoro models in-use on the
WTHO, and all of them happened to be some of my favorite models in the Tesoro line. Which, as I knew they world/could, work very well in the dense iron littered sites I encounter in most of those old town sites. And I knew they could because I switched over to the analog Tesoro line in July of 1983 when they introduced the Inca model. This was the first slow-motion, quick-response/fast recovery silent-search detector to handle iron nails quietly and really do a nice job of hitting on smaller-size [size=small]
(buttons, coins, trade tokens, etc.)[/size] in nail infested sites and others with bigger, more annoying iron.
I started Relic Hunting old railroad towns in May of '69 and followed the progression of detectors with limited noteworthy improvements, until July of '83. I not only immediately switched to using the Inca, but also switched brand loyalty as I was a Detector Dealer and I have owned and used almost every Tesoro model up thru the Tejón, Vaquero and Outlaw. Some of my all-time favorite Tesoro models have been the more recent Bandido II µMAX [size=small]
(microMAX)[/size] and Silver Sabre µMAX and even the Eldorado in the [size=small]micro[/size]MAX housing, but using the Eldorado more for spare trashy sites for all metal accept hunting in the Discriminate mode.
But most of the models with the Low-Noise/High-Gain circuitry, like the three just mentioned, come close but do not work as well or as quietly in dense iron as the former original Bandido, Bandido II or even the Silver Sabre II or Pantera and Golden Sabre II. Where all these models seem to excel is when they have a Concentric coil mounted because the DD coils, either Tesoro built or aftermarket, do not handle dense iron nails well at all by comparison.
I use only the thin-profile 6" Concentric on my remaining favorite Tesoro models, and I have relied on Tesoro's, since '83 and especially '90 when the Bandido w/ED120 Disc. circuitry, to compare all other makes and models for handling dense iron nail environments. I start with my Nail Board Performance Test and then with that performance level in mind I take detectors afield into some of the nastiest iron challenged sites I can find to evaluate real-world performance.
Kickindirt said:
Man i really like all makro/noktas too but wow man. Tesoros are probably some of the worse machines ive used in heavy iron. One tone everything sounds the same. No doubt the Tesoros are good machines but they dont even compare man ur killing me. 
Where some people have problems with a Tesoro is that:
1.. They don't use a proper size or type of search coil. I never use the DD's and I like the smaller size in dense iron. It used to be the 7" Concentric until the excellent 6" Concentric coil was introduced.
2.. Some people set the Discriminate level too high. Most of my favorite Tesoro models have the ED-120 Discrimination so setting the Disc. level at the absolute minimum setting will reject alal nails and most other common iron trash. Don't set it higher.
3.. I also note that I often see people sweeping a Tesoro much too quickly in very mineralized gerund, over pea gravel and rocks [size=small]
(which I refer to as an intense mineral body)[/size] or over trash, especially iron. Due to their circuitry design, these are dedicated slow-motion detectors and a too-fast sweep speed will swamp the receive circuitry with ground signal or rejected trash target signal and not allow time to process and recover from that. They need a slow-and-methodical sweep speed.
To b e honest, this holds true for many, maybe most, detectors that are in production today and I always encourage using a slower and methodical [size=small]
(which includes overlapping)[/size] when hunting trashy sites.
In more recent years the White's MXT series models have done pretty well for me using a 2-Tone Relic mode option and come close, but still not match, the results I get in performance with a favored Tesoro. Their newer MX5 also does well with that setting, and the Teknetics T2 and T2 'Classic' also did better than most of the more common detector brand models. That was using a 6½" Concentric coil on the MXT and MX5 units or the 5" DD on the Teknetics.
Then in January of last year I got the Nokta FORS CoRe in-hand and after a short bit of evaluation time then hunting a couple of challenging sites, it stepped into the #1 all-purpose detector spot for me and bumped the MXT to #2 ... for a month ... until the Racer was introduced. Then I sold off all my White's models and since then all my T2 'Classic' models because their overall performance in iron trash didn't match the level of results I got with the CoRe and Racer, especially using the small
'OOR' DD or the 5½X10 DD coils.
The Gold Plus stepped up performance at 19 kHz for me, and my all-around regular carry detector battery is now the excellent Relic, Racer 2 and CoRe. I keep a round 5½" DD on a Nokta Relic and a 5½X10 Concentric on another relic unit for quick-grab use, and a small
'OOR' or 5½" round DD on a Racer 2 as well as one equipped with the 5½X10 DD. My CoRe also has an
'OOR' coil mounted on it. I have a 7X11 DD on a lower rod at-the-ready for each of these models for times when it is more open and far less trashy.
Note in some posts that I do acknowledge the ability of the XP Deus with the right coil and settings as well as what an MX5 and MXT Pro have given me, and in that mix I would include a Teknetics T2, but only with the small 5" DD coil, as a model that I would use for such tough-to-hunt sites that I have focused my search time on since '69. However, I personally do not care to have any of these models in my personal detector inventory because I like 'Simple' and 'Functional' and 'Performance' to come my way, and that means: Not a lot of adjustment tinkering. Not a lot of component battery charging. No heavy or unbalanced detector package. And above all, no detector that can't match or come very close to matching, the results I get in an iron nail infested site with a
good Tesoro.
Almost all of my current detector battery consists on a Makro or Nokta detector model for either day-to-day general use or for specialty needs such as Gold Nugget Hunting. Too bad you were not around yesterday with Oregon Gregg and me to hunt an old Gold Mining Town site. You could have worked your XP in there with our Racer 2's and CoRe and Relic and enjoyed dealing with more old square nails than what we typically find in the old town sites [size=small]
(where most are round)[/size], and the worst offender of all ... rusty tin, especially an abundance of smaller size pieces of that
scrap.
I found perhaps the nicest condition 1881 Indian Head 1¢ I have found in two or three decades from an old place like this using the Relic w/5½" DD. Just need to figure out my new camera to get photos and download them.
Oh, another thing that people have a hard time with in doing comparisons is Tone ID and the Discriminate level settings. You brought that to my attention when you referred to the only One Tone you get from a Tesoro. Yes, it is true. Most Tesoro models will only produce a single Tone, but most of them are also able to pretty cleanly reject most iron with a minimum Discriminate setting. Thus, you set Disc. at minimum, Gain as high as you can, then search slowly and methodically and listen for a good 'iffy' or very clean single-tone audio response. On the
NBPT the nails are not heard, only the coin in the #1 position.
Then people try to compare a detector using a 2-Toine or 3-Tone or more tone search mode and ACCEPT the iron range, so as to hear a Low Tone for Iron Nails, and a higher-pitched Tone for non-ferrous targets. That then becomes an unfair side-by-side comparison. My
NBPT, for example, came about in the old ghost town of Frisco, Utah on top of the old school hill that had an abundance of iron nails on the surface. The way most detectors worked back then, in '94, was being able to reject iron and only produce a single-tone response.
So to be fair in doing any test on my
NB you need to just barely reject the iron nails. If you use a 2-Tone detector mode AND increase the Discrimination to reject all the low-tone producing iron, then all you have left is a single audio Tone. That makes for a fair comparison with Tesoro-like performance, and the CoRe, Relic and Racer series all handle this quite well. Being able to lower the rejection level to hear more iron, including nails, and then rely on a 2-Tone or 3-Tone search mode, you have different performance than what you will get from most Tesoro models making that comparison unfair or at least not the same.
When iron nails and other ferrous junk get too plentiful and annoying to the point I want to NOT hear it, then I can increase the Disc. level on my CoRe, Relic or Racer series models and enjoy very good performance afield with these models that is closer to being like that I have enjoyed with favored Tesoro models for a third of a century. That's partly why I really like these Nokta and Makro model detectors. 'Performance' to complement their 'Simple' yet 'Functional' design.
Monte
