Questions Deleted from Vision Forum?

[Anonymous]

I'm so glad I own an Xterra 70. They are deleting all comments about comparison testing on that forum. Is this funny to anyone else? And the comparisons are not bashing, they are by legitimate longtime members. I'm glad to be here where we have nothing to hide about how great the Xterra's are. I've seen several comparisons on here against the Xterra, because it holds up to all challengers.

 

[OzarkTom]

I'm so glad I own an Xterra 70. They are deleting all comments about comparison testing on that forum. Is this funny to anyone else? And the comparisons are not bashing, they are by legitimate longtime members. I'm glad to be here where we have nothing to hide about how great the Xterra's are. I've seen several comparisons on here against the Xterra, because it holds up to all challengers.

An answer to one of my questions was deleted about meterorites. I wonder if the dealer gave me a wrong answer now? Don't know.

 

[Anonymous]

It's crazy. The forum should be about customers, not brands or dealers. This should bring up red flags to everyone. I'm glad our moderator is a stand up guy, and welcomes ALL questions and comparisons. (Because the Xterras will meet any challenge) Just a warning, don't say anything negative on the Vision forum, or you will be deleted, and threatened to be kicked out of findmall. (I'm not joking, this is happening)
I'm not trying to cause problems, but consumers have a right to compare, and list those comparisons (as long as it's not bashing) before forking over $1,500 in this economy.

 

[BarnacleBill]

Well that's how they've decided to run that forum and Freddie is simply enforcing those wishes. But he also pointed out that other forums on Findmall are free to handle comparisons versus the Vision how they would like, exercising some decorum of course.

White's has dumped a lot of time and money into this project, and obviously wants to see a successful launch. At the price point of the product, there is obviously going to be comparisons made against products in the same price range, well somewhat near the same price range. This is a high wire act for White's, because if you think about it they've just given any of their competitors, and especially ML, cover to produce a $2K USD consumer Coin detector. And of their competitors, who's had no problem charging $5K for a prospecting detector?

Now there has been a lot posted on that forum concerning head to head testing. In the FAQFAQ I have posted head to head tests that I took a lot of time to do and write up. The tests were conducted head to head live in the field with "in the wild" targets and documented. I made very clear the methodology used to conduct the tests, so that anyone questioning the results can peel their fat butts of their couch and go repeat them if they have a problem with what I did. I've never had anyone publicly or privately question the results or integrity of those tests. If I want to do more tests in the future then I am damn well going to do them and not ask anyone's blessing or approval to do them. But I'm also not a testing agency for people who are too lazy to do their own, or want to present a shopping list of tasks they want me to perform. I saw a lot of that from a certain Canadian on the Vision forum, and I would have no problem telling that clown to shove it where the Sun don't shine. I don't recall having signed on to be a butler or field hand.

It's people like Digger that do a lot comparison testing and report it(usually in a much more judicious manner than I do), and he also reports back to certain manufacturers that ignore his advice at their own peril. ALL of the manufacturers need a strong cadre of Field Testers that are not a bunch of Yes men. Because if all the people testing the products are Dealers & Yes men then the product itself suffers.

Bottom line is the Vision is going to be heavily scrutinized because of the price point. Great Expectations eh Pip?. But if one has an X70 you already have a three frequency detector in your arsenal.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Anonymous]

As always, well put Bill.

 

[Digger]

Thanks Bill.

As Bill indicated, this forum is open to discussions about various makes and models. Our rules are pretty simple.......Respect the opinions of other users. Respect the rights of our sponsoring dealers. Don't make posts that display your uneducated opinion about the X-Terra. And don't come on here to complain about something that should be resolved by direct communication to Minelab. Other than Des, I don't know of any Minelab folks who read this forum.

comparisons.............several years ago, I sold off some of my "other hobbies" to have the bucks to purchase detectors. Therefore, I am fortunate to be able to do a lot of field comparisons between detectors and the various accessory coils. I think folks who have read my posts realize that the results I obtain may not necessarily reflect those for your soil conditions. One good example of that is our ongoing discussion about 9-inch concentrics vs 10.5-inch DD's. As I've stated many times, I like the 9-inch concentric for it's depth and balance. Many have just the opposite view, and I respect that. Simply a matter of different strokes for different folks. (and different soils)

Bill also mentioned that I "report back to" certain manufacturers. I'd like to think I correspond with them and share my thoughts. But, I suppose the word "correspond" and "share" may be too broad of terminology, as some stopped writing! And obviously didn't listen! Regardless, I feel priviledged to have been involved with Minelab, the X-Terra and this forum, from the start. What a great bunch of people, sharing a common interest! For what it is worth, I honestly believe the X-Terra platform is one of the best, if not the best, detectors available. Whether you are a coinshooter, relic hunter, beach hunter or a prospector, the X-Terra platform offers functionality for just about all of us. Functionality and the flexibility that should keep it around for a long time!

As to the Vision, I don't have one. But I will say, if the rumors I've heard are true, that White's incorporated some earlier Minelab patents into the Vision, (as they have with other models) it may be turn out to be a winner for White's. If it does, good for them and good for the hobby!
Again, this is just a rumor I've heard. I've not found the patent information that either confirms or denies it. As you eluded to, however, the Vision's price point may be the biggest obstacle they will have to overcome. JMHO

HH

Randy

 

[Steve(MS)]

I don't think we have to worry as the truth will come out. Now how it is interpreted is up to each individual. If one takes the time to read "between the lines" on posts from various users over time, he will have a better idea of what to expect from a given detector. At least that is what I generally do and it saves me from having to buy every model on the market.
From a price stand point, I don't think the Xterra 70 will have a problem competing with the Vision since it is about half of what the Vision costs.
BB is right as usual about looking to others to compare detectors, it takes time and work to accurately compare them out in the field, a good way to get a feel for a particular model is to personally contact some whose opinion you can trust...

 

[OzarkTom]

I talked to a fella the other day that owns an Etrac. His friend that he hunts with has a Vision. The Etrac owner says he will never trade his Etrac for a Vision, but says the Vision is a fine detector for more of a beginner with all the preset programs. The Vision did miss some deep mercury dimes that the Etrac would pick up. If I posted this on the Vision site, it would be just deleted.

 

[Anonymous]

I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I'm glad they had a change of heart. I'm interested to see what the Vision can do.
Thanks

 

[BarnacleBill]

there's so little experience with the Vision that I don't know if that's a valid comparison. And one of the valid concerns of testing the Vision against any detector is going to be the number of adjustments that can be mis-adjusted or "not optimized". It will be a tinkerer's dream detector for sure, but will "you" still be tinkering in the parking lot while Ol' Bird Dog and his beat to death Compadre are out spanking the Silver? That of course being a bit of the "rap" on the DFX which for some users brought on cockpit overload. Yes you can run factory presets, but how strong a case can you make to yourself to run a $1700 uber adjustable detector in factory presets? I don't think I'd let on to fellow club members that I'm running one in factory presets because I'm afraid to venture out of the shallow end.

But the X-Terra forum should also not turn into the gathering place for those that want to bash the Vision, that's not the purpose of the forum. But if someone wants to spend their time and money to learn the Vision, and also become familiar with let's say the X70, and do a comparison, then that's fine as long as it's in context. And what I mean by that is, let's say something of a like sized/style high frequency coil on an X70 versus the stock coil on the Vision with it's high frequency setting. As long as the poster is making an honest effort to be fair to both detectors then why not. I believe there could be a "value" comparison made as to price point versus features, ease of use, weight, battery life etc.

I own a fair number of detectors of different brands, and see no reason why someone shouldn't try a Vision if they can afford it and are inclined to put in the time to learn it. I personally won't anytime soon, because I am working about 60 hours a week right now, and have new detectors in boxes I haven't even opened to try. Work is the curse of the detectorist.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[OzarkTom]

I own a fair number of detectors of different brands, and see no reason why someone shouldn't try a Vision if they can afford it and are inclined to put in the time to learn it. I personally won't anytime soon, because I am working about 60 hours a week right now, and have new detectors in boxes I haven't even opened to try. Work is the curse of the detectorist.

HH
BarnacleBill

In about a week, you will probably want to add another to your arsenal.

 

[nero_design]

I asked why there was no GPX/GP forum for the users of these immensely popular Pulse Induction detectors from Minelab. However, I was told that they had no intention of creating one since there was already an Aussie-Yanks Prospecting section that such posts could be made in.

Since there's already a Vision forum and Garrett have an Infinium Forum, this struck me as particularly peculiar and obviously biased. It's actually quite stupid not to have a forum dedicated to these detectors because there's nothing out there that comes close to their capabilities and abilities. It seems that some of these other manufacturers may hold a bit of sway here and don't like to see any competition spoil the scene for them. Bit of a shame because that means these forums are likely to be biased and edited to conceal critical comparisons which would otherwise show a fair view of the machines and their technology.

Now recent posts being deleted is another concern altogether. In the past, many of the manufacturers have had to withdraw advertising campaigns which named their "new" detector as being 'more powerful' or better than a said model from Minelab ...and they were sometimes forced to retract such statements and eat their words when word got around. There have also been cases where Patents had been violated (take your pick of violators and who the aggrieved party was) which led to a few stand off moments in the past. Recent VISION posts and reviews by companies and websites (eg goldcountry.com) have also recently been withdrawn. Why? Those in the know (and posting this information on the Vision forum... including White's Electronics corporate manager) claim that the Vision is "100% Whites". This might explain the decision to use "Electronic Ground Balance" which is considered by many to be inferior to the Minelab's Patented Automatic GB. But there's also disadvantages in using multi frequencies when hunting particular targets (usually strength of EMF).

Who knows what's going on over there? They were all pretty happy with this new detector and now there's websites being forced to withdraw comments, reviews and even postings on forums which covered the VISION. Something strange is certainly going on. To the point where serious censorship is occurring. All I can see is that there's a problem with either the pitched product and it's capabilities or a demand for some sort of withdrawal by another manufacturer. Interesting.

EDIT: Seems some VISION owners are unable to locate coin-related targets beyond the 5 to 6 inch depth. Also, a problem with this new detector on moist and wet ground suggests and Ground Balance concern. Perhaps this is related to the recent online edits etc?

 

[Idaho-Marke]

n/t

 

[Digger]

a friend of mine sent me a reminder of where I may have picked up this notion.....patent # 4,942,360.....dated 1987, But the names and the freq. technology sound familar! HH Randy