Questioned by security

[GunnarMN]

[size=x-large]today i was detecting a large spots Field and the security officer asked me who & what i was doing [/size][size=x-large]so i told him i was metal detecting and i knew whear all the sprinkler heads whear and i showed him all the trash i was picking up and i dont destroy the grass and he was just fine with it when i dig a target i cut a slit in the grass then take my Wilcox trowel and pry it up , the target is almost always right in the middle i then pluck a bit of grass and put in the hole for fertilizer and close the gap you never know i was thear i had dug lots of targets befor he got thear but you could not tell i had dug anything just keeping it good for other detectorists Gunnar MN[/size]

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Gunnar,did you have your hammer?

 

[D&P-OR]

Sounds like you did everything right in your explaining to the security officer & in your recovery techniques Gunnar.----If we all do that, this hobby should last a long time! -------Del

 

[Tom_in_CA]

This is most often what happens. Either no one cares less or even notices. Or if they do come up and ask who/what you're doing, usually (like in your case) shrug their shoulders and leave. But what's wierd is: how much you wanna make a bet, that if you'd gone up and asked someone from city hall office in that city (heck, even asked that same person) "Can I?" that you might not have gotten a "no"? Moral of the story? Sometimes no one cares ....... until you ask. But if you just go, no one usually cares less (unless you were being some sort of major nuisance, leaving a mess, etc...)

 

[MNCoinhunter]

On the other side of the coin....I went to city hall and asked for permission. And now I have the run of the whole town. They were very pleased that I had asked before I just went ahead and started digging.

 

[Sven]

That's one of my favorite fishing spoon lures you have found. Great for trout.

 

[marcomo]

On the other side of the coin....I went to city hall and asked for permission. And now I have the run of the whole town. They were very pleased that I had asked before I just went ahead and started digging.

But, to flip the coin back over again, you had the run of the whole town before you asked permission.

Fortunately for you, asking did not get you a no or put up any red flags with anyone at city hall who wouldn't have otherwise cared.

 

[GunnarMN]

No i did not have my hammer , i redirected my hammer to good uses i found a pile of concreat to smash up into small bits for road gravle i really like the musky i would gladly buy another one as they dont make them any more

 

[D&P-OR]

I once had a couple of detectors that I was glad I didn't bring my hammer along with me on the hunt!----Was also glad that I couldn't find a convenient pole or post to "wrap them around"!-----I wasn't so "glad" that I didn't have the hammer or the post at the time though! ---------Del

 

[Tom_in_CA]

McDave, marcomo has a point If there was nothing prohibitting detecting, you had the run of the whole town, before asking permission. So all you did was risk a "no", where no one would have cared, or probably even noticed you (unless you were some sort of a nuisance, or leaving a mess, etc....). But in your mind, you did the right thing because they said "yes". But this is the response that anyone in a position of authority will probably have. I mean, think of it: Did you think they were going to say "gee, why are you asking me? you don't need to ask" No. Of course not. The mere fact that you asked them, simply infers that whatever it is you asked about, needs their sanction, to begin with (lest why would you have asked?). And thus, they are happy to confer upon you their kingly "yes" (or no, whatever the case may be).

And I have to chuckle anyhow when I read of someone who gets a "yes" thus believing this confirms that permission was needed, to begin with, anyhow: Because whomever gave you that "yes", simply didn't have the right set of mental images in their mind. For example: were you sure to mention "holes", "digging", "indian artifacts", "ARPA", "treasure" and "hold harmless clauses" when you asked? In other words, I could just as quickly go to those same persons who gave you the "yes", and just as quickly get your yes revoked and turned to a "no". All I'd have to say is: "Gee, is it really fair for McDave to go enriching himself at the city's expense, when there is 'no collecting' rules on the books?" or "Gee, what if an innocent little child trips and falls in one of McDave's holes, and sues the city?" etc....


I still think that asking if you can go detecting, where there are no specific prohibitions, is like asking if you can fly a frisbee, or skip stones on the pond. Sure, you can find someone to tell you "yes, I allow you to skip stones on the pond. Thankyou for asking". But that doesn't prove that you needed to ask.

 

[JeffNS]

I actually wrote our local city planning office and received a response regarding metal detecting on city easeway's including the strip of grass between sidewalks and curbs and boulevard's. They responded that it was fine but not to obstruct pedestrian traffic or get to close to the road traffic.....oh....it also said that I shouldn't dig up those areas????? WTF?

I replied with a very nice letter thanking them very much for givin'g me a green light to metal detect and for their prompt reply. I also said "Regarding your indication that I shouldn't dig up those areas I wanted to assure you that I do not dig but rather employ a method of "cutting a plug" whereby a 3" - 4" neatly cut plug is removed to recover your target which upon being replaced was invisible and caused no harm to the turf".

I asked that he please confirm that this method of target retrieval would be acceptable. I'm waiting for their response now. I went on to explain that I would also respect any people who's property bordered any of the areas and if they rathered I went somewhere else that I would comply.

I actually think they're gonna respond with a green light to go ahead as long as there is no visible damage. If they do then it is going to open the doors to previously undetected areas which should in many cases be great spots to find some older silvers and other vintage coins...imagine the parade routes in your city...imagine the main thoroughfares when people still travelled by horse.

I'm sure I won't be the first to hunt these areas but it would be next to impossible for all of them to be tapped out and I doubt many detectorists would hunt these areas as they are so in the open with traffic etc. I'll admit I'd probably be a bit self conscious myself but with a letter from the city to produce for inquiring minds etc. I'd hardly notice anybody's presence.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Jeff, good luck on asking permission to "cut and/or dig plugs". Personally, I think you are running a big chance of being told no. I would think that as long as you knew you were going to leave no indication of your presence, that's good enough. Because the minute you start down the road you're on, you risk a "no", where .......... to be honest with you, no one probably ever have noticed or cared. And worse yet, once they tell the person who asks "hi, can I dig in your park?" a "no", whomever answered that inquiry might see others after that (whom he may never have paid second mind to otherwise), and remember your inquiry, and start booting others! I've seen this happen before at parks where they were totally open, and no one cared. Till someone comes along and asks, and gets told no.

 

[marcomo]

but with a letter from the city to produce for inquiring minds etc. I'd hardly notice anybody's presence.

Jeff, when hunting sidewalk strips I'd strongly suggest noticing EVERYBODY's presence.

Ownership laws regarding those strips vary from town to town. In some places the homeowner owns them, but the city has an easement. In other towns the city owns them but the homeowner is required to maintain them. Sounds like the latter is the case in your town.

That means if your town has no laws against metal detecting in public areas then you are legally OK to detect.

But regardless of legality and who technically owns these sidewalk strips, most homeowners consider them their property since they are in front of their house and they maintain them. Another issue to be aware of is that in many areas people often park cars on the street next to the strips. If they happen to take notice of you as you are bending over they may think you are doing something illegal with their car. It's really important to stay aware of your surroundings when you're doing this.

I did a fair amount of "strip searching" when I was new to the hobby, and as a rule they are good spots to detect and loaded with coins. I detected them the first couple hours after sunrise on weekends to minimize homeowner contact.

But even early in the morning you still run into people leaving in their cars, walking the dog, jogging, etc. Whenever I ran into someone or even just saw someone who was connected with a house where I was or would be searching the strips, I very, very briefly told them what I was doing (mentioning of course that it was city property) and asked them to make sure they didn't mind me doing so. I only had two people tell me no. One guy was nice about it, and one older lady was not. She was very indignant that I would even be doing such a thing. In both cases I smiled and politely thanked them for talking to me and got off the block. I also never parked my car on the block I was detecting.

You are very wise to say you'd move along if anyone had a problem with you being there. I'd suggest doing what I did and getting fully off the block and out of their eyeshot.

Being smart trumps being right. Don't count on a city permission letter to protect you. All it takes is one concerned citizen at a city council meeting complaining to get an ordinance passed ending your permission.

And if someone calls the police, the cops are going to figure you being there is causing the problem. And they'll figure if they continue to allow you to do it they're going to have to deal with it again.

 

[JeffNS]

I hear what your sayin'....better to ask for forgiveness instead of permission. Thought I'd go the up front and completely honest way. As far as that strip being the home owners property it is not. It is the property of the city in my region. That being said, I've acknowledged in my letter to them that some home owners perceive this as being their property and that I'd move on if anybody objected. As far as parks are concerned....they belong to the city and are considered public use. I don't need permission to hunt there but am obligated NOT to do any damage and I do cut a fine plug if I do say so myself. Took a bit of practice but I can't even find them after I've done diggin'. Of course, ground conditions play a large role and if the ground is saturated I don't dig turfed areas as it generally makes a muddy mess.

I'll let you all know next week what the citie's final verdict is....and yes....even with a letter from the city, all it will take is one cranky old dodger to complain at a council meeting and they'll likely put a stop to it but I'm about as nice a guy as you'll find and have been involved in customer service and human relations for most of my career and I'm usually pretty adept at turning a negative into a positive. I think my professionalism and demeanor will go a long way to improve the perception of our hobby.

Wish me luck.

 

[GunnarMN]

once i asked to detect a church yard , and they said they would have to look into the legalitys of it they never let me know and when i called back i always got a diffrent person , so what if i went to church and fell down the steps is it any different CHURCH IS CLOSED UNTIL WE LOOK INTO THE LEGALITYS i gave up on it then at another church the paster said go for it some people get scared some dont

 

[Ron from Michigan]

GunnarMN,no more hammer jokes,you are one of the good guys.Later Ron