Question for U cz guys...

[Joseph in Alabama]

When the cz3d came out it was mentioned by tom d, amomg others that air testing the 3d may not be inpressive that it took the ground matrix to really see it's true depth...now every one wants a tuned 3d from tom d. and wants to know what it will air test at (part of the tuning I understand...foil=foil tone nickle=high tone etc) I feel that if all Los Banos 3d's air tested deep (tom d's spec's) it would have been used as a selling point....so why did it go from all you need is ground matrix to it's got to air test 11 inches + or its no good.. any thoughts thanks HH joe

 

[GoGoGopher]

I do not think ANY manufacturer is going to put a hard figure on how deep their detectors will search...This would mean that every detector sold would have to live up to this depth, or noone would buy them...If I told you my new fangled ROBOtector 5000 would hit on a dime at 2 feet, you would buy it probably, but if it did not live up to the hype, you would soon be returning it, or passing it on to the next sucker...If it DID live up to the hype, then this would force a scramble in the industry to match this depth from other machines...So, all you are ever gonna hear is "Our detectors will find those deep coins", but never "How" deep???

HH,

 

[Joseph in Alabama]

You miss my point GoGo..........my point being if in the beginning when the 3d started selling.if ground matrix was good enough why does it now take callibrating the depth to get the most out of the 3d....... joe

 

[cometguy]

I may not have a full understanding of your question but I do have some thoughts. I don't think anybody will offer a guess what a well tuned CZ will do in the ground. The D air test became a sort of standardized test. It was what he hoped the newly manufactured machine would do. My personal experience is that my new CZ3 d wouldn't touch his standard but still found plenty of goodies. Personally if I had a CZ that did at least 9 inches on a dime in the test I would probably think it was fine. Would I be happy if my machine did 11 or 12 inches on a dime? Sure I would but I would also be award that it was no guarantee what it would do in the dirt. I think CZ guys will also tell you that a 11 or 12 inch machine will false more. I think the window being adjusted to hit properly is an important part of being happy with a CZ. I have had air test winners and 9 inch machines and loved them both. Maybe somebody will jump in with a different viewpoint and be better able to answer your question.

Don
HH

 

[Steve O]

Joseph, I'd say it's a good question to ask on T.D's forum. I also wondered the same thing. One gets the impression from that read, that if it air tests say 12", will the ground matrix help it go deeper.

 

[Joseph in Alabama]

I read all the time where guys are sending/selling cz3d's that D has callibrated...I understand wanting to get more out of a machine...But if paperwork states and I quote"Do not air test the cz3d in the enhanced mode,It needs the entire dirt matrix (with older generation coins) to operate as designed" what is so important with the depth/callibration deal ...I mean if the tone is in tune with the icon then then the 3d doesn't need to be callibrated for depth correct??...So does that mean if the new Fisher 3d's.. are hitting a dime at 6,9 or 12 inches it doesn't really matter as it's all in the "dirt matrix" where the 3d excells...does any of this make sense..HH joe

 

[BJ in Okla.]

Why spend $100 or more to have your CZ d sent to calibrated,,,then sell it......

I got my CZ 3 d out yesterday and did that test...
My unit does about 10" on a clad dime,,, but not all clad dimes test the same...
With a silver Merck dime,, it gained a good inch.....
With the 5" coil, I could hit 8" silver dimes and a 9" half, loud and clear,, with good ID,
in my late friends test garden.
This is in our soil,,,that the GB was like 5....
I have read that others in their soil could not get good depth...

There is a new non metered unit out that goes real deep,, but I don't care about digging any deeper than 7"....
Who wants to dig a 18" clad dime....


I have always wanted a CZ with a zero to 100 meter,, but that may not work out as well as what we have now.
Also would like to have a DD coil for my CZ,,, but that will never happen...

HH....Bj

 

[cometguy]

Sounds like you got one to do what CZs do best. I love my CZs. One might test slightly better than another but they still find the good stuff. Keep your fingers crossed Fisher's new detector addresses some of your wants. I know I am holding off buying anything until Fisher releases their new toy.

Don
HH

 

[Rob (IL)]

I asked Dave J some questions. Here is some of what he wrote. My CZ was made in Los Banos. Not like the new ones in El Paso. I sent mine to be calibrated but I don't think they all have to be.


I left the "old Fisher" in early 1995. Sometime after that, I don't know when, they scrapped the correct calibration procedure in favor of a "quickie" procedure which sorta faked it. So from the perspective of calibration on an older unit, your best bet is a unit purchased in 92-93-94, or a unit tweaked personally by Tom D who created a one-man cottage industry around fixing what the Los Banos Fisher screwed up. .......After we bought the Fisher catastrophe and moved it to El Paso it took us a while to figure out that the tweak procedure we imported from Los Banos was not the original procedure. I think it was a little over 3 years ago that we restored the original procedure so El Paso machines manufactured within the last 3 years should be fine.

--Dave J.

 

[tvr]

Rob,
Interesting post. What time frame did you get the reply? Is it very recent such that three years ago means 2009?
Cheers,
tvr

 

[sqwaby]

I sent my 3D to T.D. for cal. I wasn't as concerned about more depth as I was about the accuracy of target ID(both tone and meter). Tom will even tell you, there is not alot he can do to get more depth out of a machine, maybe a little bit but not inches worth. I will also add, it was worth the money and turn around time was excellent.

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Basically all CZ's are not tuned the same and some are hotter than others but coil for coil size may be the deepest unit on the planet in the ground where it counts and well to me air tests are not my thing...
As far as mixing with the matrix with the ground seems to me to be a rival unit from another company thar accentuated that point and most CZ's will air test 9 plus inches in the air while I believe 7 inches is the figure they use for the rival company but will go several inches deeper in the ground where it counts.
Just don't like to mention other units than a CZ on a CZ forum....

 

[marcomo]

I sent my CZ-3D in for Tom Dankowsk& to calibrate in June. It was a S/N 1021 Los Banos unit manufactured in the mid aughts and used very little by the original owner.

As others have said, the reason for calibration is not depth but accurate IDing of coins particularly in the enhance mode and correction of what Tom calls "deep audio smear"

As a CZ newbie, I pestered him with a lot of questions (like what the heck is deep audio smear?) which he was patient enough to answer.

Straight from the rocket scientist's mouth:

"I just finished correcting the 'deep target audio smear'. This is described as a elongated/long audio response on deep/weak targets. The audio length is several times longer than design intent. This also makes for a exceptionally 'chatty' detector when the detector falses on minerals. A VERY unwanted condition.

I have corrected the nickel ID error.......... and now 'old nickels' are properly ID'ing in the 'enhance' mode.

Salt balance is now correct.

I still need to see if I can get a bit more depth out of this unit. . . . . BUT....... it is quite a 'hot' unit to begin with.

I also want to make the electronics a bit more stable.

I should be able to finish up today..... and have the unit in the mail back to you..... today."

"Completed the calibration/validation/certification of your CZ-3D. I managed to get approx 0.1" more depth on a dime........... which brings this particular unit up to 12.0" on a clad dime............. and that is in a dirt test-garden (not just a air-test). Stabilized the electronics a bit more...... and also enhanced the auto-tune function just a bit. This is a good/solid unit............ per design. A Sens setting of 4.8 is maximum depth.... whilst in the ID mode."