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Question about older machine depth loss

A

Anonymous

Guest
Just a general question about loss of depth on the XS. First a back ground story. A friend of mine and I hunt together all the time, we both us XS's. We have our machines set identical, so we can tell who is having a better day because of skill and not so much the machines. Last fall we were out and he was stomping me and we are ususally pretty close on coins. He had just gotten his machine back from minelab, he had sent it in because of a mishap and his machine wouldn't come on. Anyway they replaced some of the internal components and misc other stuff, about $400 worth. Since then his machine has been unbelieveably hot. but this particular time he called me over and said he had a deep squeely, definetly silver, it was about 3/4-7/8 deep on the depth scale. I got no response just a slight null blip. I told him to hang on before he dug. I ran to the car and got new batteries, still nothing. He dug a Rosie close to 12", we checked the depth using the Leasch knife so it could have been around 10" depending on where it actually was in the last scoop he removed but still I didn't get a peep out of the dime. I think I read in one of Cody's posts that resistors and/or Diodes, electronics in general can break down. Has anyone done any kind of research to find out if the older machines lose some depth because of electronic break down versus the depth of new machines?? Could this be a reason we read about a new machine out performing "the old stand by"? Jump in here Cody I appreciate reading all of your posts. Technical and all.
Thanks, HH
Dirtdog
 
The <span style="background-color:#ffff00;">coil</span> and <span style="background-color:#ffff00;">other electronics</span> can be the problem. There are times when it is as simple as having trimmer pots adjusted to component replacement. My first check would be to swap coils to make sure the coil is ok. A very common problem that has a coil cover is dirt will get between the cover and the coil and create problems. I "fixed" a detector just last week that was going wild that had water and dirt between the coil cover and the coil. Poor connections and the like should be checked but the internal circuits do have components that will age or drift and need to be replaced. If you check the standard areas for problems and find nothing and the two macines are set the same then I would send mine back for a 100,000 mile tune up so to speak.
HH, Cody
 
I think Dirtdog would be wasting his $$$ to send his detector to Minelab for a tune up. From what I've seen, he will be told there is nothing wrong and the detector and it will be sent back to him in the same condition. The new Explorer I bought a couple of years ago was sent in twice with MAJOR PROBLEMS and it was returned after passing their tests.
I think your first piece of advice was the best... figure it out for yourself! There is an obvious reason why one is doing what the other isn't. I like to believe the difference is because of a bad coil, but the question I have to ask is, why wouldn't they test the same after when it was only the electronics on one deetctor that was changed? A coil is either good, bad, or inbetween, and will be that way no matter what it's hooked to.
The one thing that crossed my mind as I read the post was, what if Minelab replaced his board/s with an Ex2 one. I have never used a proper working EX2 for long enough to say whether it's deeper, but I can tell you there is a difference in the strength on the signal on coins.
All that being said, I also think it might be possible that detectors such as the Explorer start to get a little flat over time compared to what they once were. I was sort of having this conversation with a friend and am still undecided whether the detector has lost a step, or after a few years I'm just used to digging deep, and now it seems normal.
 
I was not expecting to see $400 for a tune up so was hesitant to some extent for that reason. I tried to suggest some other ways with that in mind. I don't think I would spend that much but then it is not my machine. It is hard to say what another user should do with their detector. I like and enjoy new equipement so am fairly sure I would go for a new one but then..........
Have a good one,
Cody
 
I would liklely write it off too if the bill was $400. Although, by the sound of it he's probably very happy with did what he did.
I really wish I had a good running EX2 here to test for myself against my XS models. Both my detectors seem to run the same so I'm guessing they are on par with what they should be. I have a friend who has used the Explorer from the time it came out and he currently owns both. His opinion is, the EX2 is better on coins, but the Ex1 sees smaller targets and works in iron better. The first model is what he continues to use.
 
<STRONG>C.C. I thoght your post about only adjusting the sensitivity and audio gain from the presets was one of the best I have read</STRONG>. The presets with these two increased is about all we really need to make.
The primary difference I could see in operation between the XS and EX2 was the digital dispaly. I could not see any difference in depth or discrimination. I do like the digital ferrous and conductivity digital dispaly.
HH, Cody
 
To clear some things up, When my friend sent his machine in, it wasn't for a tune up, it didn't work at all, his wife was upset with him because we had been hunting alot,for several weeks, everynight after work until 8:00 or 9:00 at night, friday nights till midnight or so and starting again around 5:AM Sat until midnight or 1:00am Sunday, so you might say she broke it. So he had a bunch of internals replaced. I have checked between the coil cover, it's clean. I tried my 8" coil but I'm not used to it so I don't know if the depth was right. Next time we go out, I'll ask to try his coil, that will give me some idea. But I'm in the corner with those that say the machines seem to go flat after a few years. I did talk with Dick Shultz and asked about a tune up but he said there was no such thing as a tune up. Thanks for all the info.
HH
Dirtdog
 
By tune up I mean correcting anything that has aged or is out of tolerences so you are not getting the proper depth. Tune up is just how you see this stated but not really one as such.
Good luck and let us know what happens.
Cody
 
I knew what you meant. When I talked with Dick I told him my machine seems to work as it should, it just doesn't seem to have the depth it used to. I asked about replacing some of the internals, that's when he told me they didn't do "tune ups".
Thanks again Cody, like a lot of other people, I appreciate all your time and input and want you to know we all appreciate it. I have everything you've posted and plan on playing with new settings this summer. I'm an engineer also but far from the electronic field, I was an IE in manufacturing for 19 years until the plant moved to Mexico now I'm a design engineer so I guess that's where my curiosity and always wanting to know "why" and "how" things work comes from.
Thanks Again
Dirtdog
 
On the Ex2 the target was always deeper by about an inch than what I was expecting. On my original Explorer I always know at what depth the target is by sound, and when I dig the hole, it is ALWAYS there. I'm not sure if the EX2 is deeper, or just gave a stronger signal for targets at the same depth as the EX1, but I was fooled on almost every coin by it being a little deeper. Now if detectors can lose their punch maybe that's part of it, but i really don't think that was the case. This year I'm looking forward to hunting with a couple friends with 2s and I will borrow one for a few targets and see how they compare.
 
1) Minelab picked them as factory so they must feel it's a good setting and work.
2) If I have to restart I can set my detector up exactly the same way very fast, and very easily.
3) Most important, after many hours of playing and messing with settings, it's what I'm comfortable with, and it what works very well so I know even on the days I find nothing, I don't get affected by confidence mind games.
 
I have spent a life of wanting to how an why. Back when I was just a kid of 18 man told me son you need to got to college. Ha ha
It is hard to understadn I guess but knowing why and how is as enjoyable to me as using the detector. I tis hard to explain all the thoughts that flash though my mine if the digital readng has a certain sound and reading. Then seeing if I am correct when I dig it up. I guess is is a double bang for the buck.
I have read several post on the Minelabs forums where they say they have sent their detctor back for a tune up. Interesting!
HH, Cody
 
I read an interesting story about two fellows hunting with like detectors and being skunked, but everytime they went out alone at the same area scored a deepie or two and it leads me to believe that two like detectors hunting in the same area can affect each other even if they are a distance away. Perhaps a newer unit therefore might indeed influence an older unit with older components..I know one Company with a lifetime warranty that encourages tune ups and heck I tune up my car so why not tune up my detector..on the other hand many may say why fix what ain't broke..A large part of the hobby is confidence in your unit and by all means be my guest and get it set to factory spec's if you feel its not up to par..We all know about noise cancel and frequency differences but lets face it an Explorer is still an Explorer..
 
Dick at Minelab has told me the same thing. No such thing as a "tune up". Had seen some posts a while back talking of "tune ups" so called Dick for conformation. Was thinking if there was such a procedure it may be worth-while so to speak just to keep my machine in top working condition. In not so many words, Dick told me unless it doesn't work at all there is no need to send it in. Just my thoughts.
HH Gilly in Illinois
 
Over the years...each company has factory spec's and it would certainly be worth a trip to the factory for a check up no matter what we call it. And yes for some reason some units may be a tad hotter...
In any case detecting can be hard work and a positive attitude knowing its set up to factory spec's would sure make me a more efficient hunter..
 
I know my buddy and I have talked about cross talk and loss of depth, noise etc. We didn't consider it at that time because we were standing together, he was getting a signal and I wasn't. Maybe his macine being hotter interrupted mine but mine didn't bother his. I know we have another gy that hunts with us and when he gets within 20 feet or so our machines go nuts, to the point we have to re-noise cancel and sometimes that doesn't help so then we throw memorials at him until he leaves(LOL). Thanks for the input.
HH
Dirtdog
 
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