Quality Worries

[Brainwasher]

Over the past week or so, I have been trying to decide if my next detector would be the F75 or the Minelab SE. After careful consideration, I am leaning towards the F75. It makes sense to me that if I can cover twice as much ground in the same amount of time with the faster responding unit, that I would be more likely to run the coil over more good targets. What is worrying me is the different posts in this forum and other forums and internet traffic concerning the quality of this product. I have seen the following issues:
- Plastic rod shaft prone to easier breakage
- Handle grip splitting
- Spring tension or grove depth in battery compartment causing batteries to lose contact when bumped
- Small amounts of rainwater easily entering the control box and stopping the machine
- Dirt or Sand easily entering the control box and getting behind the menu button causing it to not work.
- Rolling numbers in the readout at certain settings
- Interference by common pinpointers or cell phones
- Headphone issues
- Inability to get detectors repaired after the five year warranty period is over
- The five pin plug being too tight, causing a risk of cracking it when removing cable
- I read about other problems, but they were mostly operator problems, caused by the operator not following the suggestions in the owner's manual, so no point in bringing that up here.

Now I understand the F75 is newer technology and would logically be prone to some problems...sort of like the first model year of a particular type car. It appears that Fisher is willing and successful at repairing items sent back to them, which is a wonderful thing. My concern is that since these problems have been identified, am I still going to run into these very same problems if I buy an F75 a couple of months from now, or have these problems been addressed. In the car industry, normally when a problem is identified, a recall is issued and owners can return their vehicle for repair. Additionally, vehicles in stock are usually modified so the new owner is not purchasing a defective product right off the lot. I am wondering if I buy an F75 next month, will it be a better quality detector than one today. I'm not seeing a lot of quality issues with the Minelab SE and from what I read, the meter on the Minelab SE is more accurate at deeper levels in the ground. Since I don't own either one, I can't speak authoritatively on either, but wondering if how others owning the F75 feel about the quality of their detectors. I'll probably still end up purchasing the F75, but would like a heads up if I'm about to make a mistake. I would appreciate any help regarding whether my concerns about the quality of the F75 are valid or not. Thanks. jeff

 

[seeker41]

Plastic rod shaft prone to easier breakage...................................................................................................................nope..
- Handle grip splitting.................................................................................................................................................nope.
- Spring tension or grove depth in battery compartment causing batteries to lose contact when bumped............................nope,not even close.
- Small amounts of rainwater easily entering the control box and stopping the machine....................................................nope,i use the dust cover.
- Dirt or Sand easily entering the control box and getting behind the menu button causing it to not work.............................nope,i use the dust cover.
- Rolling numbers in the readout at certain settings.................................................. sens to high. Interference by common pinpointers or cell phones..................................................dont use a pinpointer/nope.
- Headphone issues..............................................................................................nope.
- Inability to get detectors repaired after the five year warranty period is over...............how could anyone know that????
- The five pin plug being too tight, causing a risk of cracking it when removing cable........nope.
i have not had any of the problems i have seen posted, read the post from fisher " Message from Fisher about the warrany & repair issues" i can tell you first texas is great to deal with but i have no experiance dealing with fisher. good luck.

 

[Brainwasher]

Seeker41, thank you for your post on this. I suppose maybe quality problems with the F75 are rare and the people with problems are venting making things look worse than they really are. I just wasn't hearing about many problems with the Minelabs and it concerns me a little that more people aren't piping in like you did about there not being problems with the F75. I really want an F75 because it is apparently lighter and has a faster sweep speed. I rarely have time to metal detect, so when I do get a chance, I want to be able to cover as much ground as possible to raise my chances of running the coil over something good. Of course it would be a little hard to find anything if the machine is in the shop. I'm hoping I'm not making a mistake and I'm hoping I'm not going to miss things the slower more meticulous Minelab sweeps would have found. Thanks again for your post.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Plastic rod shaft prone to easier breakage
- Handle grip splitting
- Spring tension or grove depth in battery compartment causing batteries to lose contact when bumped
- Small amounts of rainwater easily entering the control box and stopping the machine
- Dirt or Sand easily entering the control box and getting behind the menu button causing it to not work.
- Rolling numbers in the readout at certain settings
- Interference by common pinpointers or cell phones
- Headphone issues
- Inability to get detectors repaired after the five year warranty period is over
- The five pin plug being too tight, causing a risk of cracking it when removing cable
- I read about other problems, but they were mostly operator problems, caused by the operator not following the suggestions in the owner's manual, so no point in bringing that up here.

Hi Jeff,

I think you mention valid concerns. Especially when you see a few people with real issues posting on some of the forums. I just sold my Explorer because I like the F-75 better. Not saying I didn't like the Explorer because I did, but I was using the F-75 more and the Explorer was turning into a dust collector in the corner.

There can be issues with any mfg. I know I have had my share with Minelabs, pre-1st Texas Fisher and Tesoros. The only reason I can't include the other mfg is just because I haven't bought enough of them to run across one yet. I don't normally make a big deal out of them but it is nice to have a place to vent and the forums are good for that. The most important thing is will the mfg fix the problem without hassling you about it. My experience with First Texas is that they do care and will fix problems without hassling you over it.

Just speaking to the ones you've listed. The broken rod I saw was aluminum, not plastic. Whither that was a defect or just over-stressed I can not say but regardless I know I wouldn't like it happening to me and I'd be on the phone with First Texas to get it straighten out. And I'm pretty sure they did.

Regarding the hand grip splitting, Thats the same foam being used on the T2 and I don't haven't seen a lot of people reporting issues with it. The handgrip foam is a high-friction wear item and most detectors have to have these replaced on a fairly regular basis if they machine sees a decent amount of use. Even more so if you use the machine in more physically challenging areas.

Batteries. There are less issues with the F-75 battery compartment than there are with the Xterra battery compartment. Pay attention to how you install them and treat your machine like it cost a $1000 bucks and you'll not see any or very infrequent issues.

Rain...Dirt....Sand. Any machine with external buttons or switches are going to be susceptible to rain, dirt and sand. The F-75 ships standard with environmental covers for both the control pod and the battery compartment. Put them on and leave them on. By the way, no one else ships covers as standard components with their machines and they are just as affected by the rain as the F-75.

Rolling numbers in the readout....and electrical interference.... The F-75 has more gain available than any machine out there. When you are in a position that lets you use it, you use it but the machine will tell you when you can and when you can't. Now it is true that there have been some real machine issues. Again, when you suspect a real machine issue, you do some testing on your own and then get on the phone with First Texas and find out if it is or isn't. Again, they won't hassle you over it and most of the guys over there like to visit. If there is a real issue, they will get it figured out, straightened out and you'll have a machine you love.

Headphones....There are many detectors that have headphone compatibility requirements. I use a set of Timberwolf Predators and I have to flip headphone switches when I use these phones on different machines. Normal activity when you use various machines.

Inability to get a machine after warranty repair is a non-issue. Where did you hear a statement like that? Long time First Texas users can tell a whole different story. That's pure BS.

The five pin plug being too tight????? The tighter the connection the better. Just use common sense when plugging and unplugging it. I guess maybe some of the women might have trouble unplugging it but who knows.

The F-75 is a very capable machine. Easy to use with lots of versatility. Lots of power that you have to learn to use properly. Don't fear the occasional problem you read about. Buy from someone you like and trust and get after it. If you do somehow have a problem, you know you can call and get it taken care of.

Good luck on your choice. Like I said at the top, the Explorer is a nice machine too. I just like the F-75 better.

Mike

 

[Mike Hillis]

n/t

 

[Randy In Kc]

I saw your message strand on the Minelab link above. I just ordered my F75, should be here 10/31. I used to have the original Explorer. When it first came out the big issue was cracks forming. They got that fixed. I loved the unit but was too heavy for me to use for over an hour at a time.Developed elbow and shoulder problems. Tried to get a harness but couldn't get used to it. Great depth. I too read all of the posts and even wrote First Texas regarding my concerns and got the exact same letter back in an email. I will hope for the best. I traded in my MXT on the F75. I wanted lighter weight, deep targets, and turn on and go with no need to buy a book to tell me how to use it. I downloaded the manual, have read it about 5 or 6 times. Now am ready to apply it. I can only afford one machine at a time (a wife rule) and it will be the F75. Have owned a Garrett TR machine, Garrett 250, Garrett 2500, Minelab XS, Fisher CZ5, CZ70, Shadow X5, Whites MXT. I enjoy trying the latest technology. I went to England 3 years ago with the Jimmy Sierra trip and the Whites, Explorers, and Shadows were tearing it up. I had my Fisher over there and ended up borrowing an old Whites XLT to use. Whatever you choose, great hunting and let us know how it works out. In the end it all boils down to mastering whatever machine you use. They all work. Randy

 

[Cliff KS]

The first two coils on my 75 were defective and I saw several others post about bad coils. Also, the battery connection springs are flimsy and better quality components should be used there. So there were some quality control problems there and hopefully Fisher has taken care of their problems on more recently manufactured units. I have not had any of the other problems you listed. I do think that parts of the manual could have been better written. Notching is poorly explained, and it was lacking info on how you end up in high gain in DE mode if Disc below 6 or over 19. Shouldn't have to find out about settings from internet forums. Some people still don't use computers. They should be able to buy a detector and feel confident that they are getting all the information they need on machine setup right from their manual.

 

[Brainwasher]

Mike,

Thank you so much for your post. I think I've pretty much decided on the F75. While I don't doubt the Explorer is a great machine, I have been in the active duty Army for the past 24 years. Between jumping from planes earlier in my career and carrying a lot of heavy crap, especially now in Iraq, my back isn't what it used to be. The lighter machine appeals to me. Additionally, if I can cover more ground in my limited detector time I feel that I should be able to find more goodies. The tough thing is giving up the better meter, but I'm sort of inclined to dig anything deep, regardless of what the meter says, so maybe a non-issue. Usually when I get a chance to hunt, I like to spend the entire day in the field, so again, the lighter machine appeals to me. I was just really concerned about the quality issues I was seeing. I have owned an Whites MXT and a Tesoro Silver Sabre. I never had a bit of problem with the Silver Sabre and if Tesoro had a metered detector that would reach the depths of the Explorer or F75, I would certainly not hesitate to buy it, but I don't think the Deleon or the Cortes is going to do that. Nice warranties though. The MXT is a nice machine, but heavy, and definitely not getting the depth I want. In fact my Silver Sabre had better depth at half the cost. I only had to return my White's one time for a headphone plug problem and they were very nice about it, fixed the problem quickly, and even did some extra improvements to it without me asking, all for the cost of postage even though the warranty period was over. I would definitely do business with White's in the future too. So, when I read in one post about someone wanting to send their older than five year old machine back to Fisher for repair and then being told they would not repair it because it was beyond the five year warranty period, that made me think a bit. Perhaps it was a communication problem and maybe they would have repaired it for a price (which is quite fair if the machine is beyond the warranty period), but I would hate to have a detector for six years, like it, and then not be able to find someone to repair it if I wanted to keep it. That was the only post I read about that, so it is probably a non-issue or some competitor trying to trip me up with a forum post. Who knows. Anyway, I hope I will be happy with the F75. Thanks for the help. jeff

 

[Idaho-Marke]

n/t

 

[Scully]

When buying an F-75, or any machine, buy from a dealer that knows and uses that machine, so he can help you out when/if you have problems. This machine is so sensitive and in some locations you may have adverse conditions to deal with. Being able to call your dealer and ask question is a very important selling feature. With a machine this sensitive, some of the "problems" are simply user error. I know, I did the same thing the first few weeks I was using mine!

 

[jbow]

The five pin plug being too tight????? The tighter the connection the better.

I agree, mine is tight and Iam glad of it.

Be well aware, the F75 is nothing like a Tesoro... nothing. It will seem unstable at first until you get used to it, but so will the SE. As far as the foam splitting, yeah, it might but they will replace it if it does.
I have a T2 and it developed a coil problem, I sent it back and they gave me a new coil, replaced the grip, put a new faceplate on it, resoldered and rebraided the wiring. It was better than new when I got it back.
Then I developed a short in the coil cable on my F75. I sent it back and they replaced the coil and the scuffcover. They will take care of you.

If you get an F75 I will be glad to help you out, you can call me anytime. If you ever want to just ask and i'll give you my cell number. Anyone here will help you with either machine.

Where do you live?

Julien

 

[digitrich]

Hey Mike, it's not a matter of it being to hard to pull the five pin out, it's a matter of in doing so it's splitting in half. Now, I'm not an electronics expert, but I'm pretty sure eventually, if not already, if in just one change from the stock coil to the new small one it's splitting, this thing is going to develop a short. Some people want to know what makes the plane fly, me; I like to sit in the back and drink cocktails. That's my real beef with the F75, I have no doubt First Texas will fix it, I just wish I hadn't had to waste so much time and money playing detective just to figure out it wasn't working properly. That time should have been used learning how to use my new machine, not on how to fix it. My real mistake is I bought from a large mail order dealer instead of Ralph here in Iowa at Sun Ray. If I had bought it from Ralph to begin with, then I could have just taken it back to him and compared it to one of his. So Skully brings up a very valid point, buy from a local dealer that you can work with personally, who knows and uses his machines. The reason I bought mine from the larger dealer is because Fisher couldn't give Ralph a delivery date on his F 75's and the other dealer offered me a discount for buying both the F75 (they had in stock), and another detector through them at the same time. So I got my F75, 3 or 4 weeks earlier and in four months haven't been able to use it. So as you can see, buying it from the in stock dealer saved me negative three months. There is a huge difference in talking and showing something in person then trying to explain it over the phone.

 

[sandnsea49]

that Fisher will fix the problems before I buy. Like you said if a car maker finds a problem they fix it so no more come off the line with the same problem. So I will wait to see if Fisher will fix it now or fix it later. I'd really like to see Fisher address this issue to everyone on these forums. It would make me more comfortable buying their product. So for now they will not get my money till I see the "new and improved" F75. If it doesn't happen by Spring of "08 I will probably bite the bullet and get one anyway. Drat! I just don't have enough patience.

 

[Brainwasher]

I know what you mean. Although I haven't totally ruled out the Minelab SE, I'm probably getting the F75; however, I think I will go to a local dealer and check it out myself before I pay my hard earned money. If they open the box and there is problem, whether it be a bad coil, weak battery housing, looks like it is more prone to dirt and water than it should be, flimsy plugs, whatever, I might let them check another one. If they pull a second bad one out of the box, I'll probably not mess with it anymore and just buy the Minelab. From what I have read, both Fisher and 1st Texas have a very good reputation, so I'm sure by the time we're ready to buy, they will have heard from their customers, read these forums, and taken action to make sure they are selling a top quality product. I know this sounds stupid, but the bit of advice I have gotten repeatedly that worries me the most is the advice to put the enviornmental cover on it and leave it on because a piece of sand can get behind the menu button and stop the fun. A coil can easily be replaced, but a design flaw letting dirt behind the buttons may be more problematic. It has been my experience with other machines that environmental covers make the meter difficult to read and relects the sunlight. The main reason I'm buying a metered detector is so I can use the meter. Stupid me has accidentally shoveled dirt onto both my Whites and Tesoro detectors (more than once) in the field, and it's never been a problem. I carry the environmental cover with me in case it starts raining, but not so much for dirt or sand. I can just slip it on at the first sign of rain and just keep on hunting. If it is so vulnerable to dirt and sand that I have to keep the meter covered all the time, even when it's not raining, well, I might have to look at the Minelab SE again. Sort of defeats the purpose of having a meter if you have to keep it covered all the time. Again, maybe the dirt or sand behind the buttons is an isolated event and won't ever happen to me, but I'm definitely checking it out carefully before I spend my money. Still, I think the F75 is going to be my new detector. Faster speed and still has good performance. I don't give up my money very easily, so hopefully I won't be let down. HH Jeff

 

[Mike Bearden]

The main reason most detectorist keep the environmental cover ON at all times is simply because touching or rubbing the screen with dirty/sandy hands or gloves will scratch or dull the screen in short time no matter what manufacturers name is on it. It just makes good horse sense to keep it ON the unit for protection.
I just returned from DIV VIII hunt in Culpeper Va. last weekend and let me tell you, the first day of the hunt was nothing but cold solid driving rain.
At least 2/3 rds. of 300 or so folks had detectors that either started acting funny or QUIT completely by days end. Keep in mind that ALL of these folks used environmental covers and everything you could imagine to protect their detectors including saran wrap, trash bags etc. on top of their detectors and they still had moisture problems.
My F75 started sounding weird after 7 full hours of hard rain, like everybody else, I was soaked to the bone thru my rain gear .... and it was maybe 48 degree's outside for the HIGH during the rain.
The cover got fogged up but the screen NEVER did on the F75, it just started a sounding weird ..... but it was still finding targets when I decided not to push it and turned it off.
After thinking about it that afternoon of day one, that weird sound very well could have been interference from a fellow hunter that was using his Minelab Excalibur water machine.
It's a known fact that Excals and a few other (dedicated water machines) will interfere with many land units and it's hard to get away from it.
It worked fine a hour later when we retuned to our lodge and it was still soaking wet.
Point is, every manufacturer represented there had moisture problems. Normally .... none of us would even hunt in this kind of weather and would've never taken the chance of needlessly harming our detectors. But .... in a paid hunt situation, we do what we have to.
I can't put a number on it but if I had to GUESS then I'd say most if not all of the detectors that got wet ... were in fact dry and working RIGHT again the next morning.
There was at least ten F-75's at this hunt and all ten were back and functioning on day 2 of the hunt.
Problems with dirt behind the menu button ? Nope not once did I encounter that problem and take my word for it, my F-75 got covered up completely with dirt 2 or 3 times. I was more concerned with dirt or water entering thru the pinpoint arm than anything else but it never happened.
One thing for sure, if you accidently covered your detector with several scoops of dirt, it didn't take mother nature long to wash it off ... it was raining that hard
All in all I couldn't have been more PLEASED with the performance of the F-75.
It hammered the small lead shot, 3 ringers and tiny pieces of brass down (in heavy iron patches) to depths that quite a few other brands couldn't even get a peep of a sound on .... I compared signals several times with other hunters and left a few of them scratching their heads
The terrain we hunted was pretty rough too with quite allot of stubble and big rocks, I ran the F-75 at almost full throttle and never had any falsing problems with it, if it beeped, something was down there.
Good Hunting
Mike

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

Just by from someone that will test your machine for you and has a money back return policy...My F75 is great one year old