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Pull Tabs vs. Gold Rings.......Like to get some input

Rick(SoCal)

New member
Greetings all,

Hope everyone is having a great Memorial Day Weekend.......I would like to to get some input from your experiences finding gold rings and pull tabs. There is an ongoing discussion with a bunch of us here in So Cal about the different sounds, numbers etc between the two. Most of my Pull tabs here are popping up in the 12-13 to 12-16 range and finding myself thinking if I should waste my time digging the next target in that range (I do 95% of the time) but I have walked away from a few towards the end of a long day of detecting.

Question to you guys is: What numbers are the pull tabs popping up and what are the numbers of the gold rings in your areas.......

Have a great day..........Rick
 
My pull tabs are pulling up in the same range as yours. The only gold ring we found was a womans gold wedding band that weighed .14 toz. It came up consistently at 11-22.

Greg
 
This link has some nice charts of target IDs for the E-Trac. Looks like a lot of rings come up CO 1, 5, 11,12, 13 and could come up any where between CO 1-32. We need a statistical chart from a group of hundreds of rings that are representative of what you would could find and where they fall on the chart. A histogram. I would venture a guess that there would be concentrations at 11-13 5, and 1

http://www.thebeepgoeson.com
 
you can look at these numbers and learn them and then what do you do when you get one borderline WHOOOPS decision time i really think you need to dig them they are not usually deep and it should take seconds and if it is a hunting ground you use often it is better to weed them out i also think that you could see if they sound off like cans do bring your coil six seven inches off the ground are they still giving a good two way signal and will a gold ring do the same you have got to be pretty confident its rubbish to walk away how about digging them for a week saying to yourself before digging i would ignore this normally as i think it is a pull tab dig it and see what you have if you get one keeper out of the ones you would normally ignore than you have a BIG DECISION to make
 
My experience has been that mostly the pull tabs bounce around and the gold rings lock on. That is mostly but not in all cases. I think it does depend on the ground in your area and what the pull tabs numbers read at. Once I know what to expect as far as numbers and if theres some bouncing, then almost for sure its a pull tab.
 
As I have never found gold with my E-Trac I can't speak to any expertise on what it sounds like compared to a pull-tab. Your (and my) best be would to made a garden of gold and pull-tabs and do some testing. I have noticed that if I get a questionable target, if I switch to pinpoint trash is usually "screamy" and coins are "whoopy" sounding. Unfortunately, the hope for gold always prevails and I dig anything in that FE/CO range.
 
Rick, I know you asked the question strictly in terms of numerical cross-hair TID readouts. But invariably, this type question always trends over into "sounds" "tone" and "repeatibility" type issues too.

For the first part, the numerical TID readouts: Those of you who have been around long enough will remember this: Back when the very first TID units started to hit the market (Teknetics, etc...), in the early to mid 1980s, this was studied very deeply. Especially when programable units (like the first Whites Eagle) started to hit the market, where ..... not only did you have a bouncing needle or screen, but you could notch in or out infinate categories to your disc. patterns. Of course this was only on the "up/down" axis at that time (and with no left/right 3D axis like we have today). There were persons then, in the mid 1980s, who tested multiples hundreds of random gold rings (they must've had a friend with a large jewelry store! haha). They fed the information in to a computer program statistical chart, to determine the ratios of where the various rings tended to fall, on the Whites 1 to 95 scale. Then they took multiple hundreds of recurring aluminum junk items (foil wads, tabs, etc....) and also tested them, to determine the ratios of where the various junk items tended to fall on the 1 to 95 scale. Then they simply did computer program statistical analysis to tell the md'r the best #'s to dig :)

So for example, it was determined that rings that fall into the pulltab range, were really only about 10% (for example) of the gold rings out there "in circulation", while the pulltab range accounted for 40% of all aluminum junk you might typically encounter in the field. So it was determined that you should disc. out tabs, for example. And the nickel TID, should be nixed out, as should the smaller foil wads, etc.... And the highest percentage of rings, that fell into the least amount of junk, was the numbers above small foil, but below nickel. And above nickel, but below tabs, and so forth. Theoretically, by programming in these "ring enhancement programs", you would pass the most junk, while digging the most gold rings, per the target ratios encountered in the average park conditions.

I'm sure these charts are out there on the net somewhere. And the numbers can just be converted over to the Minelab numerical scale. But they won't take in to account the left/right axis. I also recall that when machines like the Spectrum, XLT, etc... were introduced, they had not only the up/down scale, but introduced something akin to the left/right scale: the "graph" where you could see bars, smears, etc.... Immediately people thought "aha, finally we can see if there is a tendency for gold, verses aluminum, by incoorporating this new info". But it became immediately clear that this added no help in discerning gold vs aluminum. Items of either metal were still "all over the board" depending on size, shape, karots, angle in the ground, depth, etc.....

As far as the 2nd part of the question: sound, tones, repeatability, etc... It has been thought by many that even though gold and aluminum share the exact same conductivity and target cross-hairs, that gold somehow seems to "sound different". I believe this is really nothing more than selective memory though: There are reams of pulltabs or foil wads that "lock on" and "sound" just perfect! And there are reams of gold rings that "waffle" and "sound" kinda iffy. I think the only reason the human mind wants to think gold "sounds different", is the following psychology: If you go out to a junky park, and dig 100 aluminum junk items, and then FINALLY dig a gold ring, your mind will immediately think "this gold ring 'sounded' different". But all that is happening, is selective memory. It works like this: Every time you go to dig a target, you are subliminally thinking "this sounds different". But when it turns out to be junk, you immediately forget your premonitions, and say to yourself "yeah, come to think of it, it DID sound kinda junky". :rolleyes: But finally, when you dig a gold ring, only THEN you remember your premonitions, and think "Aha! I KNEW it sounded different!". Kind of like how we think our dreams at night come true, when you hear that song on the radio that you dreamed about, or that friend you dreamed about calls on the phone the very next morning, etc....: We dreams hundreds of dreams per night, that never come true. So we promptly forget them all. But when one randomly does come true, only THEN do we remember the dream, and think "Aha! I'm psychic!". :rolleyes: It's the same psychology happening for those of us that want to think that gold rings "sound different".

Or put it this way: whenever I encounter someone who insists that you can tell the difference between gold and aluminum, by the "sounds" and "tones" and "smoothness" type differences, I challenge them: Tell them to go down to the nearest blighted inner city junky park, and turn them loose. See how many gold rings they can dig, while leaving even a majority of tabs and foil behind. I think you will find that they quickly abandon their theory.
 
I dug a 10k small ring this year. A steady 12-8 both ways is the only reason I dug it because .22 shell cases comes in at the same #.
I have in the past years dug 2 heavy gold rings, one I was expecting a quarter, the other I was expecting a copper penny. We would do better with the etrac's if we covered the screen over with duct tape and run in TTF.
 
An old radio/television repairman once told me that gold and aluminum on an oscilloscope have different wave lengths. As a matter of fact, he was working on a machine about 40 years ago, that he replaced the detector meter with a home built scope. And showed me the difference, there was definitely a difference. The only problem he was having was, you had to tow a bank of 12 volt car batteries behind you in a wagon. I have lost track of this gentleman, and have always wondered if he perfected his machine or not. With today's electronics and miniaturizations, I'll bet someone could do this. Anybody ever try this before? I am mechanically inclined but, not electronically so......NGE
 
nge said:
An old radio/television repairman once told me that gold and aluminum on an oscilloscope have different wave lengths. As a matter of fact, he was working on a machine about 40 years ago, that he replaced the detector meter with a home built scope. And showed me the difference, there was definitely a difference. The only problem he was having was, you had to tow a bank of 12 volt car batteries behind you in a wagon. I have lost track of this gentleman, and have always wondered if he perfected his machine or not. With today's electronics and miniaturizations, I'll bet someone could do this. Anybody ever try this before? I am mechanically inclined but, not electronically so......NGE

They have done so....to some extent....its the v3i! While I really liike the Etrac most of time....I do use the v3i especially in trash. The analyze screen helps me figure out what is good and what is trash. I cant always "know" if its a coin or ring but can usually know when its not. It is not perfect but I have had very good luck on knowing one thing from the other. There are various clues that help me do this. In the right areas, with some experience...you can figure out pull tabs from nickels and general trash from good items. With the Etrac....unless the numbers show its a pull tab along with bouncing....I often cant tell trash from rings & coins. With the v3i it helps me "weed" most trash out.
 
Thanks everyone for the input/ It looks like most are having the same issues as we are. I will keep digging all the tabs (will make Ronald McDonald House happy) as I usually do and hopefully have a decent gold year this year.

HH...........Rick
 
Very well put Tom,Nice story and topic and very well put!
I agree,There are just too many variables in gold versus pull tabs.
My theory is if you are gonna find it,your gonna have to dig it!

LabradorBob
 
Yes, there are "differences" between each gold ring, and each aluminum item. Whether it be on a modern detector, or on an oscilloscope from 40 yrs. ago. No doubt your friend DID see a "difference". So too can a "difference" be shown on a variety of today's detectors as well. The trouble is, SO TOO is there a "difference" between each gold ring and each other. And so too is there a "difference" between each foil glob and each other.

Had your friend continued testing multiple gold rings (if he'd had access to dozens upon dozens of random types), and continued testing on multiple dozens upon dozens of typically encounted aluminum items, he would quickly have realized that any differences, are merely because there's differences between everything. Even between various aluminum items to other aluminum items, and between various rings and each other.

If there WERE some tell-tale difference that NEVER repeated itself between the two (ie.: a distinct difference that never occurs with gold signatures, and vice-versa), then we'd all be rich digging gold rings till our arms fell off. But I suspect your friend merely had a sample or two of gold rings, and a sample or two of pulltabs, and presto, thought that these "differences" merely extended to all aluminum vs gold.

This reminds me of a funny incident, from about 1983. Teknetics had just come out (the year before I think) with the very first TID machines. A Teknetics dealer came and spoke to our club meeting. At the time, the disc. on our machines up till then had only had ascendind/descending scales. So it was just "assumed" that if you knocked out foil and tabs, you would miss gold rings. Well this dealer did a table demo. in front of our club. He waves a nickel, and it made one particular sound. He waves a pulltab and it made it's own unique tone pitch too. And then he waved a gold ring, and it made yet a 3rd unique tone pitch! The room full of md'rs was simply amazed. We had never seen anything like this! A few of the guys in the club ran out and bought them as quickly as possible, thinking they were going to get rich digging gold rings, while effortlessly passing foil and tabs. Afterall, you can't argue with this actual demonstration, can you? Needless to say, it became quickly apparent to those that ran out and bought them, that so too is there a HECK of a lot of aluminum shrapnel, that exactly mimics a variety of gold rings.
 
I have dug 5 gold rings with my ET and tested 20 more that I dug with my excal II. Each ring was weighed and gold content noted. If I had to pick a favorite number it would be 12-21 and my second favorite would be 12-27. The other 20 rings (do the math) come in all up and down the co scale but the fe 12 line is pretty consistent. Last summer there was a funny story from a guy that passed on a 12-15 only to have his hunting friend dig it and recover a nice platinum ring. On the beach I only pass up iron, and not always then! Terry in San Diego.
 
terrywl said:
I have dug 5 gold rings with my ET and tested 20 more that I dug with my excal II. Each ring was weighed and gold content noted. If I had to pick a favorite number it would be 12-21 and my second favorite would be 12-27. The other 20 rings (do the math) come in all up and down the co scale but the fe 12 line is pretty consistent. Last summer there was a funny story from a guy that passed on a 12-15 only to have his hunting friend dig it and recover a nice platinum ring. On the beach I only pass up iron, and not always then! Terry in San Diego.

thanks for the accurate id numbers always nice to log something in the brain
 
Hi! I found 6 gold rings last year and so far this year I've found 1 14 kt. & 1 gold pendant & 1 nice platinum ring. I found these at 12-1, 12-7,12-10, 12-13,12-15, 12-26, 12-21,15-9,12-5. Let me tell you what happened recently. I was in a soccer field and got a low signal and a 12-10. I decided to dig it just for my curiosity as it usually is a 1/2 pulltab or a cut up piece of aluminum can. To my surprise it was a tiny sterling silver earring. About 15 minutes later I was in the outfield of a softball field and got a loud pulltab sound and a solid 12-15 a good pulltab number. I dug it anyway and came up with a beautiful 10.6 gram man's platinum wedding band. My 14 kt. ring was a solid 12-34, a screw cap number. I've seen charts on rings and the numbers are all over the chart. I personally hunt specifically for jewelry, so any edge I can get is appreciated. I encourage you to buy Clive Clynick's book Site Reading for Silver and Gold. It gave me a strategy for finding jewelry. If you want to make sure you don't miss any gold, you have to dig every signal but that is just not fun or practical. What I have found with the E-Trac is that if CO numbers jump at all, it's not gold or silver. It will be stable.If you sweep in different directions, it will jump if it is junk. I hunt with a 6" excelerator coil for maximum target seperation. I also use Grey Ghost headphones. I hope that was helpful. Good Luck!
 
That's excellent information. I thank you for that. I had a 12-1 signal today thinking it was foil so I didn't dig it.
I should have now. I also received a 12-10 and found a silver Pendant. I was also detecting in softball fields.
 
Thanks for the input Terry... I try not to pass up items as well especially at the beach. I am just amazed on the different sounds and readings gold rings make. I have 5 gold rings and all are different readings (not by much but still different).

HH......Rick
 
Hey Rick-
I've dug a lot of pull tabs looking for that elusive yellow metal. I would have to say that 80% of the pull tabs I dig fall into the 12-15 through 12-19 range. The rest mostly fall in the higher range, 12-20 thru 12-26. Every once in awhile a pull tab will fall out of these ranges, but not to often, and then the tab is usually deformed in some way or an odd shaped tab of some sort. As for gold...I find that I have to dig just about every low tone, 12-01 through 12-36, I come across because I may miss a gold find. Sometimes I find, like last weekend, that the 12 ferrous line isn't the only place gold is found.
I was at the beach this past weekend and I got a "weird" signal. Not particularly low and not high and very broken. The numbers were somewhat jumpy, but pretty much settled on 17-10. The lower tone and the fact that the co # was 10 made me just curious enough to dig, and low and behold I got my first gold ring for the year and the first gold anything since July of 2010.
The ring is 1.5 grams of 14k gold with 15 fake diamonds. Pic to follow.
I've come to the conclusion that unless you dig all the low tones, or somewhat low tones with possibly jumpy signals, there is a very good chance you will walk right over some gold.
 
Very nice Gold Ring. Congratulations. I also dig signals that could be a gold ring or pull tab but
sometimes the signal is a little erratic and when I start to dig and I'm using my Garrett Pro Pointer,
if I find the chirping is too strong then , most of the time, it's a pull tab or screw cap. But, you never
know for sure so I dig anyhow.
 
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