Programs

[Nauti]

In all the years I have been metal detecting i've never seen anybody with a programmable machine use a program that has given them a distinct advantage over other users.I've been to countless club digs and rallies where they have been many detectorists using many different programmes(on the same dig),and at the end of the day their finds rate is no better than those who are using a decent beep and dig model.
How do detectorists who use programs know that the program they are using is right for a particular field,they don't really because it is just guess work.I often see people standing around fiddling with their machine in the hope that it will find them more in a given situation but it rarely makes a difference.
What more do you need than a detector that is fairly deep,can give a signal on good object that is close to iron and is sensitive to small valuable items?There are detectors on the market that possess these qualities without complicated program menus that can cause a detector to be set up in a way that makes it unsuitable for the conditions it is being used in.
I also see that many use programs they find on the internet or on forums that some whizz has come up with.....how do you know that this program will work on your particular field or that indeed the person that has come up with it knows better than anyone else?
I see programmable machines as tools for the marketing men rarther than an advantage for the detectorist as most of the adustments that matter on a detector can be made with the good old fashioned rotary knob.

 

[Larry (IL)]

It is good that we have a big selection of detectors for everyones needs, like the automobile industry, one size does not fit all. Although the beep and dig detector fits the needs for some, I haven't found one yet that competes with the top of the line programmable detectors for depth and target ID in the ground that I hunt.

For those who fiddle with the adjustments on a programmable detector is most likely a case of they haven't learned how to use their detector yet, they are still in the learning curve. Once a programmable is tweaked for the users ground and hunting style, it becomes a turn on and go hunting detector. I suppose there are those who just like to fiddle with their machine and that is fine too.

The beep and dig detectors have their place, but it's a programmable for me.

 

[berryman]

Sounds like this has the makings of a real entertaining thread.

 

[BarberBill]

In a few of my other threads you may come across my statement of "use what YOU like." That said, I'm not personally into a lot of tweaking on programs partly because if done improperly you may LOSE performance and, even done well in the end you still have a machine that reacts to metal in the ground, no more, no less, which is what beep and dig designs do, no more, no less. I'm a fan of keep it simple and just have fun searching.
BB

 

[Surfinsafari]

Sounds like this has the makings of a real entertaining thread.

OMG...I came from using a Whites Surfmaster. It is a water detector but I used it everywhere and did well. Beep and dig! Bought a ML Safari because I didn't want bells and whistles. Bought an Etrac because I did want bells and whistles after all. I have my machines dialed in and I don't fiddle with them too much. The Etrac has better discrimination in trash but I like the Safari in open ground. I want to hunt, not play with buttons. I wanted the best MD and I found it in ML. Heres a kicker..my son out hunted me this morning with his Garrett Ace350. Told him to only dig high and deep and the bugger lifted out a 1945 War nickel in perfect shape...I got squat.

 

[dan b]

My problem with programs would be self doubt. I would always have in the back of my mind that nagging doubt as to whether I was configured optimally for that particular place. I know how my brain works. I would end up going back over the same area wasting my time until I was convinced that I found it all. With a beep and dig, I don't have that issue because I'm digging everything that sounds smooth. It's possible that a compromise could be reached in my head. A machine with a screen and tones that offers a limited amount of settings could allow me to dig a little less but not have the fear that I set it up wrong. Something like the new MX5 might be just the ticket. Until then, I don't mind digging so I'll keep at it with my Tesoro.

 

[msviking]

In the end as others have said, purchase and use the detector that you have the most confidence in. Personally I enjoy my two "programable" detectors the most. I agree with you that if I could not detect (no pun intended, ha ha) distinct benefits due to the programs what would the point be, but I can see improvements due to my programs. I have been able to see this improvement in the field by taking an un-dug find in undisturbed ground (usually a coin) that I can barely detect,and then run different settings/programs to see the differences the different setting make. The settings that improve the tonal response and VDIs the most become a program for that location. As we all know, different locations have different soils with different levels of mineralization, EMI etc.. Additionally every user has different swing speeds. All of these parameters can be optimized with a "program". These programs (for me) truly improve depth and VDI accuracy.

The Whites V3i makes these changes easy by allowing you to create your own set of "Live Controls" on the bottom of the screen. You can quickly make changes while noting the effect on the response all the while not having to leave the detect screen.

In reality to take advantage of these benefits, one has to invest a significant amount of time learning the nuances of the settings in the program. With my White V3i, this took months, less so with the Minelab CTX 3030, but then the MInelab has far few settings to program.

Good luck, happy hunting.

Robert

 

[Rainyday101]

I work with high tech crap all day. when it comes time to go detecting I like simple. Tesoro works for me.

 

[ken ward]

I think that both types are fine if that is what YOU want. I just enjoy going out to have a relaxing time, If I find an old coin I am happy. If I find $2.50 in clad money I am happy. Some times I hunt with other people with the programmable detectors. They know all I use is Tesoro. They don't care what I use and I don't care what they use. We just enjoy the time out. Sometimes we will check each others target just for kicks. Some times they are right and some times I am right. Most of the time if they hit a penny we like to play around and guess a date. I am not good at the date, but I am 90% of the time right telling them it is either a clad penny or a copper penny. They always say how do you know? I tell them I use a Tesoro. I don't tell them I turn the knob. I am very happy with what I use and they are happy with what they use. We have a good time together. Than it is time for a coffee break... PLEASE.. Enjoy what works for you and what you like... KEN

 

[mudpuppy]

i've only been at this sport for a few years, but I can see the application of the right machine for the area/weather as well as the right machine for a persons particular hunting style..which may change depending upon location and conditions. .in this regards its a lot like fishing, some fellows like to throw lures fast and furious, and other like to toss out live bait, some like to do both, so they need the complementary gear for the situation and how they feel like rolling on that particular day.

.I have a pair of detectors that I tried to 'match" to my style, both are fast, both use the same size batteries, one is for the water/wet weather and one is for the land. Its easy to switch from one to the other even though they are from separate mfgs, they seem to get along nicely in the back of the car..the water one (AtPro) eats batteries faster than the land one, but when they are worn down in it, I put them in the land one (F70) and still get 10+hrs out of them, so the team seems economical and have brought me much fun and extended my season, time afield, and finds. My perfect dream detector would be an F70 with the Atpro's water proofness..
Mud

 

[Ism]

"Programmable" detectors have the same controls as analog detectors. Sometimes they have extra adjustments that can be fiddled with, but are usually preset to a factory standard.
Adjusting your threshold, ground balance, sensitivity, notch, disc, etc. on analog detectors is the same as "programming" it.
The only difference is you cannot store more than one setting with an analog detector for quick comparison in the field or for style of hunt.
Analog controls are much easier to tweak on the fly. Digital/programmable detectors won't get an unnoticed setting change when a knob is bumped.

 

[GeorgeinSC]

Different Strokes for Different Folks. That is why there so many different automobile manufacturers and of course Metal Detector Manufacturers. It would be a real boring life if we all liked and enjoyed the same things. Use what you like, learn your machine, and enjoy the Hobby. Every machine out there has good and not so good traits. So far I don't think they have ever invented the perfect metal detector. If they ever do there will still be people that want a different machine.

 

[tabman]

If you discriminate anything out above iron, you're leaving good stuff in the ground.

A lot of gold jewelry comes in around the iron/foil range as well as the nickel/pull tab/zinc range.

I just found a nice 10.46 gram silver bracelet that discriminates out just a tad above beaver tail pull tab.

I found 6 gold rings this year that hit in the discrimination range of nickel, pull tab and zinc.

What are you going to 'program'?

tabman

 

[Nauti]

That is the point Tabman,unfortunately metal detecting requires you to dig anything above iron or like you say things WILL be missed.We are all looking for an easier way to pick out the good stuff from the bad but if you rely on any method or program that gives readouts on screens or tone variations you will ultimately miss stuff.
Your last sentance"what are you going to program"just about sums it up.It does not matter what program anybody uses,there is no way of knowing if a selected program is the ultimate setting for a particular piece of ground.I'm not knocking anyone for using programmable machines,if you enjoy them use them.What I am saying is that as soon as people start messing around with settings they are introducing too many variables into their machine.Each particular machine has it's own ultimate performance parameters and it does not matter how much fiddling you do it will not exceed these.What you can do is degrade these performance parameters by progamming settings into the machine that are unsuitable for the conditions you are searching in and as I said earlier,there is no way of knowing if a particular setting is the correct one.

 

[Hombre]

This is a made up scenario,

Ok, let's say you are at an old park that is over a hundred years old and you are there with your new $2000 digital detector. You are rightly proud of this machine as it has found you a silver hoard of coins in the past few months. Out of your peripheral vision you spot a young boy with a metal detector that looks like a toy and you think to yourself "he ain't gonna find nuthin". Just at that moment you get a deep silver signal, so you pull out your digging tools and proceed to dig. Little 'johnny' has now shown up and is watching intentley as you plug down to a very deep silver dime, you pull the coin up into better light as you give the coin a good rubbing to see what it is. By now you will have erased any value from the coin by rubbing it, it turns out to be a silver rosie as you reply to your new found friend "I though it would be a least a merc or barber" as you toss the coin to the young boy.
........The boy thanks you for the silver dime and you start hunting again, you are thinking to yourself, "it's been years since I found a gold ring and this old park surely has some if I could just go over one"
Just then you get a 'pulltab' signal that is showing 8" deep on the screen, so you do the deep excavation ritual only to be disappointed with a deep beavertail pulltab. Sure enough johnny is there behind you watching as you exclaim in disgust that you hate to dig pulltabs. Little johnny reaches into his nail apron and pulls out a whole handfull of pulltabs and says "this is all I ever find in this park besides a few modern coins". You say "nice collection kid" as it was impressive with the amount and variety.
....A few minutes later you get a shallow pulltab signal, and then you pull up another screen to analize the target. Then you circle the target from different angles and comparing the target ID numbers and you declare to johnny that it is another pulltab and if you want it, dig it up. Johnny comes over with his beep and dig detector and makes a few passes over the target and says it sounds good to him. He pulls out his screwdriver out and expertly pops out the most beautiful gold ring you ever saw, now does'nt that just "make your day"?

 

[Larry (IL)]

You guys keep telling your "feel good" stories, those of us who play with the big dogs are quite amused and entertained.

 

[mrwilburino]

I sure wish Little Johnny would clean the tabs out of MY trashy parks! After that he can start on the canslaw.

 

[Hombre]

You guys keep telling your "feel good" stories, those of us who play with the big dogs are quite amused and entertained.

My point is this, "do not trust a meter to tell you to dig". I have read that some guys pass up penny signals on their "high dollar" detectors, just keep doing that and some kid with
a $160 detector will "make your day".

 

[mudpuppy]

This would be a fun discussion to have around a fire with some beer! Optimal Settings, Programmable vs. beep and dig, I bet very few ever have run the PERFECT settings for a specific piece of ground, but I suppose a lot come close enough...even with optimal settings theres just too many other variables to be able to say you "got it all" unless its shallow hunting or in a totlot of course.. then, as far as you were concerned, you ran the optimal settings with perfect technique and intense concentration for a short period of time...

Default to speedy retrieval, then, a guy can get 200 targets to another fellows 100 in the same span of time. If all things are equal, the one who can out dig the other is gonna win...

This sport sure does open worlds of debate, as long as the detectorist is happy and confident with their gear, in generally decent shape, has a nose for locations, can concentrate for long periods of time, and fast on the retrieval...now theres a force to be reckoned with no matter what the guy is using...If he's using some decent gear, it whittles down a few of those variables and makes his game all the much more hotter. If he lacks all of the other intangibles but has top of the line gear, he's nothing to seriously worry about.
Mud

 

[Larry (IL)]

I understand your point Randy, you must not understand mine. A good thread is on the V3i forum right now about audio or visual hunting and the truth is almost ALL advanced (beep and dig and screen) hunters hunt by audio, the visual part is just an additional tool. Also, most hunters with advanced detectors are selectable hunters and do not dig it all above iron. Depending on where we hunt, we can be VERY selectable, sometimes only digging targets deeper than 5 inches and in the silver/copper range. We can select and dig it all if we want to, or just dig in the gold range if we want. We can make targets in the nickel range sound like a silver target if we want to....... the possabilities are endless.

The main point is there are detectors made for everyone and if you want to dig it all and don't expect to get 12 inches deep, the cheaper beep and dig machines will suit your needs very well.