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Prices look tempting-what model soveriegn to look for...

Darkflight

New member
I have been mostly a tone detector-not a fan of the VDI...Is there a better model for response/recovery speed?.

I can slow down but I'll admit I prefer a fast response machine. But I have a few of the Tesoro's & a modified Tracker 4 that always is a coin & ring vacuum in trashy areas.

The Minelab would mostly be for areas that I have stopped finding coins at but the history & gophers tell me there are deeper coins my machines can't touch even in all metal. While a bigger coil is an option I like 7-9" coils for most uses. What aftermarket coil is the best compromise for depth/seperation in iron infested sites.

So basically if you had to buy today what model/coil combo would you look for...

Is a meter helpfull for a beep/dig tone detectorist?. Above iron-small target=dig. Thats been my method for a while now-especially as I live near basalt plugs & heavilly mineralized streams where VDI #'s are meaningless.

Sorry for another "what should I buy" post..
 
Your 3rd question is why I got the GT. Something tells me the GT will find some deeper coins in the areas we have hit over and over with other machines..
 
Darkflight,I like all Sovereign models except the original,it has an appetite for hot rocks.My suggestion read the above stickies on Sovereign models and coils.Any new Sovereign user who invests their time and do some homework and field time will reach a new plateau as a treasure hunter.Good Luck Ron
 
There are some red rocks in the river gravel that give a sweet tone on my Tesoro and make my po-pointer beep. That and basalt everywhere big & small...

But like I said I have detectors for casual hunting. I don't have the $ to buy an E-trac but the Sov/Musketeer units show up on craigs/ E-bay are tempting & some have optional coils all ready to go...

I have read a lot of threads on this & had the Sov reccomended to me before when I asked a more general"whats the best tone only" detector. I appreciate the input-And anyone in the Washington/Oregon area want to give an opinion having experience with the volcanic rocks we have to deal with-that would be very helpfull...

Thanks!
 
All the Sovereigns are said to be super deep, but some say the Elite and then still yet the GT are a bit deeper, but even if you can just buy an older model at a cheaper price you'll be going beyond where no man has gone before for the most part. Far as recovery speed. All the same- slow, and that's true of the FBS Minelabs too.

I used to be a fast recovery speed guy and not too long ago you couldn't tell me that a slow machine will separate (thus unmask) as well as a fast machine, but now I've changed my tune on that. I believe now it all comes down to how sharp the coil's DD line is. The stock 10" Tornado is an excellent coil and will separate left/right wise a coin right up against a piece of junk, but the 12x10 is even sharper so it makes it even more "effortless".

Far as recovery speed, a machine can't see what a coil can't see separately. So long as you are using a sharp coil and keep your sweep speed slow, you'll unmask stuff long since missed by other machines, fast or not IMO.

And, the added perk is that I believe a slow machine will "suck up" and "soak up" a deep target better from my experience owning many machines over the years. Gives you more time to hover over and take a good deep look at a deep one, where as a faster machine will keep trying to reset and cut the target short. You'll bang hard on the deep ones when the machine isn't trying to cut the music short, so to speak.

And, the audio on the Sovereign is so long and robust that it really makes you take notice of the deep stuff, or stuff being masked in junk. That dragged out high tone hit will stick it's thumb in your eye (or should I say ear) and make you pay attention.

Far as hunt by tone, this is the machine for that. It's audio is long and detailed like the best of the old analog machines, but yet with the numerous tone alerts of a Minelab. Best of both worlds, and not only unique among Minelab machines, but also unqiue among other machines out there. Some have the longer drawn out audio of the Sovereign, but not the numerous tones of a Minelab. It's like a Minelab had a baby with another detector among the best of the analog past with long drawn out detailed audio. :biggrin:

It's audio isn't overly processed and sanitized. Many hunt with the Sovereign without a meter and prefer ear alone. That said, I still like a meter, for splitting hairs on stuff my ears aren't good enough to tell me that are too close in conductivity. The Sovereign's 180 meter is super high in resolution from foil to copper pennies. Read in the ID Meter sticky for more on that, or the recent thread about pennies in this forum where I re-hash some of what makes the ID meter on the Sovereign special. And for a slow machine, it's ID is very "instant" because it's only sending out a voltage scale to the meter and not sending it through layers of software processing. What you hear you instantly see.

Far as being use to swinging fast, so was I. Used a lot of machines over the years and my biggest favorites were the Whites for a long time. But once you get used to swinging slow you start to really like it. I now feel I can "sniff around" at pounded out sites better by not having to swing the coil like I'm killing snakes. Think of it as trying to paint a door really fast versus taking your time with the brush. Which one is probably not going to miss any spots?

Far as coils, since you said you are a fan of 7 to 9" ones, then you'd probably love the Tornado 8" coil, which is only 7 & 1/4" in actual size. Many prefer it as their everyday coil. It'll separate excellent in trashy areas, yet some say they have punched coins about a foot deep with it or so. Blows my mind, because the best of my non-Minelabs could bearly muster about 7.5" on a dime in my soil using an 8 or 10" coil. Many also prefer the 10" Tornado. I prefer the 12x10, as it's a bit of a step up in all respects (separation, stability, depth, etc). The SEFs are in particular known for handling rough ground or heavy iron among BBS and FBS users, so since you asked about that you might think of that one. You won't "feel" like you are using a coil that big. The separation of this thing left/right wise feels better than any smaller coil I've ever owned on any machine.

Far as iron goes, you are going to have to get used to it all nulling out on you. No way to hear it unless you flip to pin point or all metal. That was the hardest for me to get used to, because I always prefered to hunt with iron accepted and map out a site in my head by what I hear the iron doing. But, I'm finding I'm digging more coins masked by iron with my GT than any prior machine. Iron Mask on the Sovereign IMO is doing it's hardest to ignore the ferrour part of a mixed signal, but at the same time it's hardest to sound off to any non-ferrous signal mixed in with it.

So when both a nail and a coin are at the same depth, and so close to each other that it's possible both are being washed in the field at the same time, that is when Iron Mask on the Sovereign does it's magic, because it IS possible to identify ferrous and non-ferrous qualities to a mixed signal. A detection field can't see past the first shallower metal object and see something deeper, but when they are so close and at the same depth that they are probably overlapping, that's when they are "one" and the field can tell you that there are ferrous/non-ferrous qualities to that signal that it sees as a single entity.

One only has to look at the ferrous/non-ferrous 2D displays of the FBS units to know a field can tell you that about a mixed "one" signal, but rather than trying to quantify and put a # on the ferrous aspect, I think BBS is just ignoring it and trying to speak out about the non-ferrous qualities. That's my theory anyway, right or wrong, because all I can say is it will shock you when you dig a coin with a bunch of iron in the hole with it.

Now for the bad news...This machine was unlike any other I've owned, and that includes my FBS units. It's a different beast in many ways, but then again that's why this beast probably makes some kills that other machines hadn't at my sites. It works in it's own unique way. The long drawn out audio was the hardest to get used to. Coin sized targets sounded like pop cans to me in size. Screw caps gave me fits until I learned how they made a warble from one direction. What I'm saying is don't expect to just walk into this machine and rely on your other machines to show you how to use it. It takes time and patience, and many don't seem to stick it out to learn it's rich language.

Not saying it's a hard machine to learn more than others, just that it's very different than others. If you do stick it out and get over the learning curve you'll go from hating this machine to loving it like no other. It's like the first time you tasted beer. I bet you hated that taste, but once you aquired a taste for it over time nothing else will replace a cold one when your thirsty on a hot summer day, or in the case of the Sovereign wanting to detect a "dead" pounded out site on that hot summer day. You'll grab your Sovereign and be glad you aquired a taste for it...

PS- On your remark about bad ground. Welcome to my world. Well, I don't have the most mineralized soil at every site, but then again I don't exactly have good neutral soil at every site either. It spans the spectrum for me, but I can say that the Sovereign has gotten deeper in my soil for me than I've ever seen, and that's even using the stock 10" Tornado. BBS is smooth like butter in the worst of grounds. PM a guy named Jack Flynn (Flyn?, Flynne?) and see what he has to say about how well BBS is doing in his rough soil for him. For me, I'm just shocked that even my little S-5 5.5" Sun Ray coil is punching deeper than my non-Minelabs using 8 or 10" coils. That one just made my jaw drop. I dug a silver dime at around 7" that hit so hard I bet it could have been 9" or maybe even more and I would have had no problem getting it. This was at a site that until my Minelabs my other units using 8 or 10" coils couldn't muster but about 7.5" on a silver dime (and that was only about two of the best of the machines I owned over the years).
 
The learning curve does sound like I'm going to have to re-learn my hunting style-as I rely on a rapid response to guage the "quality" of a target. I have found on most machines the way it responds to a fast coil shake directly over the target gives me the best audio information to dig or not...I have a "slower" detector (Discovery 3300 w/ 7" coil somehow gets excellent depth for the coil size). That combo has made some of my best finds in hunted out areas-so I can sense there is a method to the madness so to speak.But I will say that in some areas that machine drives me bonkers. I typically bring a Silver U-max as a backup when the slow machine gets cranky.

But I need another tactic-I have hunted all my local areas as well as I can & have made many nice finds. They have dried up and the occasional coin pushed up by soil activity(gophers) tells me there are more hidden or deeper. I have a limited area I hunt due to a sleep disorder. Wich is why I took up detecting in the 1st place and for that it has done me wonders. But I'm iffy on long drives so I limit my hunt area.

Thanks again - I'll at least know what models to keep an eye out for.

Cheers!
 
I been using Sovereigns since 1996 and tried all the different models and like Ron's Say the only one I was not fond on was the original. The GT is the best of them all, but being new you may not notice the difference between the others, the next ones I liked was the XS and the XS2 as they did well for me. The 180 meter is different than most other detectors and find it is one of many ways to ID targets and will give you a digital reading on tones that sound the same as your ears cant tell the difference in. The Sovereign with its tones and meter reading plus the strength of the signal gives you the info to dig or not, other the detector decides what you should dig or not. With the Sovereign and going slow and easy it will report to you everything it sees by the tones and when you hear the right tone you can look at the 180 to see the ID number which will also help you learn the Sovereign quicker and tell those tones too close to tell the difference in.
I have used many other detectors too over the years and some like you say you can swing the coil faster to tell if it is a good target or not, the Shadow X5 and the Tesoro Tejon were the ones I can think of that were great at this and did well, but with the Sovereign and getting to really know it I find I can do better and dig less trash and more good signals, but if I was doing more relic hunting the X5 or the Tejon would work better and the Sovereigns hates iron and speed of the coil, but will see more and let you know by the different tones.

With the Sovereign the more you use it the more you will learn from experience with it and the deeper you will find targets and those other have missed that are not real deep, but a trash items close to it as when you go slow you will hear both targets, other detectors will see both and average then together and give a trash signal.
The Sovereign is very hot on nickles and you may find more nickles then new dimes in most areas that has not been detected with A Sovereign.

Coil wise the easiest one to use is the 8 inch Coin search, but not waterproof, never used the 8 inch Tornado, but hear nothing but good reports on it, the S-8 of Sun Rays seem to really work great for those that are more experienced with the Sovereign. The 10 inch Tornado coil that comes on the new Elites and GT is the best 10 inch coil Minelab has ever made and as far as bigger coils the S-12 of Sun Rays is the best I have seen of the bigger coils.

Most people that get a Sovereign are not happy with it the first time out or so, but those that get to know it will love it and many site you think are worked out come to life again. I Remember one guy I talked in to an used Sovereign I had hated it the first time out, next day still not much better and after a few more days he was doing OK, but not great yet. After a good week he was getting surprised at what he was finding and after 2 weeks he was was hunting with 2 of his buddies and getting more then they would, then getting more than the 2 guy got together and having a lot of fun with his Sovereign and his Friends hated to go detecting with him as he was kicking their butt royally and last I heard they to bought Sovereigns too.

Good Luck and if you decide to try one make sure you post your questions and concerns here as we will all help you.

Rick
 
With a Sov GT you basically just turn it on and hunt very easy machine to use a couple of knob,s and toggle switches that's it , i live on a large piece of very old farm property the house has been on it for over 129 years i have hunted every inch of it for over 4 years now with a GT and i still find targets , i have a slate path way from the street to the back yard fence the slates are very thick between 2 and 3 inches and around 4 feet square i always knew for years there was good targets under the rock just never bothered to dig the slates up until yesterday ,iam always trying new things with my GT seeing that machine could hit on targets through thick slate i was curious to see what the targets where ? so i dug up 3 of them i was amazed 2 targets were wheat Penny's from the 1920,s and 30,s and the 3rd target was a buckle from the early 1800,s all 3 targets were around 4to5 inches in the soil under the slate ,just a great deep seeking machine on beaches and fields and woods you cant go wrong with it and i would invest in a 180 meter also if i was you .Any problems your in the right forum for help , hope this helps Jim
 
Meters are great..... but i think what makes the Sov a better machine is learning tones. Even on the Exp. with a nice TID.... its the tones that are the best producer. Having a TID sometimes is a crutch to NOT digging a target. Those red rocks sound like hemitite HOT ROCKS.

Dew
 
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