Post your best "deep coin" tactics...

[sgoss66]

Thought it might be fun to start a thread where each poster describes something you do with your Explorer, tricks you have learned over time, that help out when searching for the really deep coins. Anyone who has used an Explorer for long knows what a nice, sweet sound and solid ID a shallower (6" or less) coin will usually give. However, hunting for the DEEP ones is more of a learned skill. I was hoping (if you all are willing to share ) that this thread might become a good teaching tool for those desiring to learn to find DEEP old coins...

I'll start...

When hunting for DEEP coins amongst shallower trash, a friend suggested to me deviating from Bryce's settings (gasp!!), and lowering gain (down to 6 or 7). Reason being, that makes it EASY to hear shallower targets and deeper targets, just by listening for the volume of the tones. I have started hunting this way, and it really helps (for me, anyway). While you must have good hearing and decent headphones to do this (or you risk missing the deeper, quieter hits you will get when you lower your gain down from the max of 10), I have found this to be a good way to "ignore" all the shallow, loud tones (unless I hear that sweet silver sound ), and instead focus on the deeper, quieter hits. Even if these "quieter" tones don't sound or ID particularly "silver," I will still dig them if I can get them to repeat from several directions. I dig alot of deep wheats and occasionally nice silvers this way -- ones that do NOT sound particularly good, but DO sound QUIET, and thus I know they are deep.

Who else has a tip or trick?

Steve

 

[Hotcz70]

Gain maxed at 10...while running both fast and deep OFF.

It's all a matter of personal preference for the most part...as well as what and how we train our ears to listen for,

My findings about gain are as follows. I run it maxed at 10 for a very specific reason...actually 100 or more reasons each year.

On many of my deeper coin finds this year (8" to 10") I experimented with gain settings before I dug them (as I do each year for the past 5 years or so)

I'm talking about experimenting over at least 100 actual in-field, undug targets which ended up being keeper coins (silver and Injuns').

I consider wheaties as keeper coins too...but did not even include them in this post.

What is that experimenting and testing?....well before I dug each of the 100+ targets located on actual in field hunts...I dropped the gain in increments of 1 at a time.,...then rescanned the target area to see how it affected the signal.

This year I dug 17 seated coins...and out of those 17 seated coins....9 of them did not even make a peep on the SE pro once the gain was dropped to 7.

With gain dropped to 9...I was able to still hit each and every seated coin.

With gain dropped to 8... I lost 4 of the 17 signals.

With gain dropped to 7...I lost 9 out of the 17 signals....not even a peep I would have considered to stop and investigate

With gain dropped to 6....I lost ALL 17 seated coin hits.

As for the rest of my silver finds.....I did the exact same testing and experimenting this year as I do each and every year.

Without revealing my silver totals for this year 2011....Out of all the silver dimes I dug in just 2011...I would have left 63 of them in the ground... had my gain been set at 7.

In other words...my silver dime total in 2011 was 63 dimes higher with the gain maxed at 10 than if it would have been with gain set at 7.

Yep...I'm saying that 63 of the silver dimes I dug this year (not seated) did not make even enough of a peep that would have told me to stop and investigate the target.

With the gain dropped to 9... I was still able to hear all 63.

With the gain dropped to 8...I was able to hear 41 of the 63.

With the gain dropped to 7...63 of the silver dimes I dug this year would have been left in the ground.

Once I dropped the gain to 6....the lost signals were much more staggering.

What is very important about running my gain at 10 is the fact that I can STILL hear a distinct difference between a deep and shallow target.

The "sweet high warble" over a 10" deep silver coin is much softer than what is heard over a 6" coin.

I don't have to run a lower gain setting in order to distinguish deep hits from shallow ones...and I'm not sacrificing any of the deep coins I would have lost because of running the lower gain.

I'll try to do a search of my gain findings from last year and then edit this post adding that link to this post.

I know I posted my results last year too...so I'll try to "dig up"...pardon the pun...that post.

Here is the post I made of the lower gain results I posted back in 2009:
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,1075404,1075442#msg-1075442

 

[sgoss66]

Bryce --

That is some INCREDIBLE information. I am going back to the test garden for further testing, and am going to start testing "in the field" as well, just as you do. I was of the impression that you won't "lose" targets by lowering gain, you just change the "break point" so to speak between the louder targets and the softer targets. For me, testing has shown that that "break point" is around 6 inches, give or take, when running gain around 6-7. BUT, if lowering gain ALSO means you start losing deeper coins altogether, than a change is in order in my thinking. Time for some testing!

One other thing -- I have a hard time telling deep from shallow targets when running gain at 10...I have more work to do, I guess...

Thanks so much for this, Bryce.

Who else has some tips?

Steve

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

Not sure where it is set, haven't looked for years. But based on your data I will give it a try. Do you really take the time to bump gain up and down on every iffy target? Have you done the same with sensitivity, both auto and manual?.

Chris

 

[Hotcz70]

Chris...not on each and every deep target...but on at least 100 each year for sure.

As for sensitivity...yes I have done a ton of the same experimenting...but not as muchas with gain settings.

In some cases I can actually "hear" the good warble better in semi auto than in manual over deep coins....which in a sense could be percieved as better depth.

I go back and forth with sensitivity...especially in iron infested sites. Far too much falsing and chiiping in manual for me.

Gain though...it stays at 10...no matter what. Just my personal preference.

 

[DaugBiscuit]

I realize I'm jumping in a little late on this thread but because of your input I have learned alot about GAIN. I have a question though about VARIABILITY & LIMITS. Basically I don't understand the importance of these settings and how they effect what I'm hearing from my machine. Can someone enlighten me on these two settings and how one affects the other? I have read Andy's book on it but still I'm confused. I bumped my VARIABILITY up to 9 but don't have a good reason for doing so. I left the LIMITS on the preset at 10.

I've only had the SE Pro about a month and half so a little clarity from the pros on these two settings would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Don

 

[BHMACK]

Variability is the total number of different tones from low to high the machine will utilize to help you differentiate targets. Limits is how high or low a pitch you want in the highest and lowest note. Higher the limits higher the high tone. It doesn't work specifically that way in practice but that is the theory. If you lower limits to 1 w/variability at 10 you get one very low tone on everything. If you lower Variability to 1 with limits at 10 you get one low tone on everything. You are looking for a balance between the number of tones you want to hear and the range of pitch you prefer. Practical settings are at 6-7 and higher for both.

 

[DaugBiscuit]

Okay, so if I am hearing you correctly, variability and/or limits only has to do with the tone you hear (say through the headphones) and nothing to do with how deep or how the machine IDs a target? It sounds like a personal preference relative to the desired tone. So in reality the fact that I have mine set on variability 9 and limits 10 has no affect other than the tone I hear? Do I understand it correctly?

Thanks BHMACK for you help.

Don

 

[BHMACK]

Yep, you nailed it. Think of '10' variability as the maximum number of tones possible, and think of '10' limits as the maximum possible difference in pitch between each tone. They are personal preference settings with nothing whatsoever to do with performance. That being said, it could have an abstract effect on depth if it is not set correctly for your hearing. Let's say you have problems hearing/isolating the high tones, well, you should set your EXP up so those are excluded or you could miss hearing those soft high tones of deep silver targets. In that case you would want your silver to tone at a slightly lower note and would set up accordingly. The best way to do it is to throw a silver coin on the ground and adjust var/limits as you swing to see the effect each has. I have mine set at max for both.

 

[BHMACK]

I think Andy Sabisch wrote in his book on the Explorer that you could visualize the two settings as a box. With 'variability' being the number of cards (tones) in the box and 'limits' being the length of the box. It helps me visualize the difference (which is subtle) between the two settings. As you raise 'Limits' you are lengthening the box which causes each 'card' to be farther apart (different sounding) from the other. I have found that the effect of adjusting 'limits' is the number of tones as well but it is a good way to picture the effect of adjusting each setting.

 

[Hotcz70]

as compared to a wheatie hit.

It gives you the biggest difference in high vs low sound on coin hits.

Silver coin type hits will stop you dead in your tracks with a variability setting of 10...and you will know to investigate the hit.

Deep silver sounds like a high pitched tinkling sound....noticably different and higher than wheaties most of the time.

 

[DaugBiscuit]

Okay, I don't know if it made any difference or not but I set Variability at 10 and Limits at 10 and braved the cold tempeatures here in the mountains of SW Virginia for about an hour until my fingers got cold. These were my first two hits, I think they go well together (probably would have been more realistic for the year 1941 if the cap would have been moonshine).

I found some other clad too but they are cleaning now. I may post them together "before-n-after" tomorrow.

Cheers,
Don

 

[samuel_schumaker]

Bryce, lastnight while detecting i heard a signal that sounded like what you explained. Very tinkly high pitch but not blasting my ear drums out like shallow clad does, i run gain at 10. But the cursor was right on the edge of my iron mask setting, it repeated from 2 ways consistently and sounded really good but i figured since the cursor was so far left that it was just iron so i dug to see, sure enough about 8 inches down was some rusted bent wire. Then i looked at my iron mask setting and realized i was running two settings open further then 22 and figured that was why it let it thru instead of nulling. But i swear it was a beautiful tone, small but just sounded awesome. Is this maybe the same tone i need to be listening to for silver but need to make sure the crosshairs are staying in the right half? Thanks

 

[Hotcz70]

yep

You have to take a chance on those types of sweet sounding hits.

I've pulled a ,ot of deep silver or silver on edge with that same sweet sound and the cursor clear over to where my iron mask is set at.

Sometimes it's junk...but sometimes it isn't. You just have to give 'em a shot and dig 'em.

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Variability and gain may differ from operator to operator according to the mineralization in their neck of the woods, personal hearing and preferences also come into play so experiment but lots of info in this thread as a guideline.
I have found the movement of the cursor to be an excellent tool also which tells us a lot before we dig so do a lot of digging and remember the cursor movement for the next time as there seems to be particuliar movements for specific targets and after a while you will just about know before you dig but if unsure dig anyway as its not an exact science and that nice silver coin may not react in a usual fashion due to masking or partial masking.

 

[Johan]

For deep coins it sounds like most just use iron mask and listen for the sounds. do you find you might miss targets if you use discrim pattern? where do you set your iron mask at?

 

[sgoss66]

Johan --

Bryce-IL, the resident Explorer guru, sets iron mask at "22" on the SE Pro (which I think is "-6," if I'm not mistaken, on the older Explorers). I don't know which disc. pattern you refer to, but yes -- you will miss deep coins with many disc. patterns because one classic trait of deep coins, at least in many types of soil, is that the "FE" number begins increasing/bouncing higher (speaking from the perspective of a digital screen user; if you are a smartfind screen user, then this is equivalent to the cursor "bouncing left," away from the right-hand side of the screen, while remaining up near the top of the screen).

If you want to dig deeper coins, expect higher FE values (but fairly stable/accurate CO values) -- and listing for that soft high-tone warble!

Steve

 

[Johan]

Thanks Steve,

I understand; thanks for clearing that up for me.

For deep finds, what are most running for FAST and DEEP? Fast if its Trashy or Deep if its not? or both on - or off. What is every ones opinion?

 

[triplehooked]

Great question Johan, I was mulling over this very thing tonight. It would be informative to hear what various people run and why... I was wondering if both were on if they would actually cancel each other out and be as if both were off? If not, then why not run with both on for the best of both worlds... This more than likely has been covered many times, but I haven't found much in the archives on it.

 

[sgoss66]

NO -- they don't cancel each other out; I've heard others ask that too...you can run both of them "on."

Running "fast=on" (from what I hear, I don't use it myself) will give you "faster response," which is supposedly better in trash, BUT -- will give you a more "clipped" or "short" tone, as a consequence of the "fast" recovery. Some, who are accustomed to the tones they get using fast=off, don't like that "change" in the sound that happens when using fast=on. However, if you have run "fast=on" routinely, I imagine you'd get used to it.

As far as "deep=on," I have run both ways, and really don't notice much difference. It may give you a little worse ID on a shallower target when you run deep=on vs. deep=off...I can't say for sure, but that's kind of a feeling I get. Otherwise, I haven't noticed much -- if any -- difference on deep coins. Testing both deep=on and deep=off on the deep coins in my test garden shows virtually NO difference.

Others may have other experiences, but this is what I've come up with.

Steve