Pinpointing Issues

[NathanW]

Hello
I used the information in this site to make the final decision in purchasing the Infinium.
I bought it for prospecting. We have a 160 acre hard rock/placer claim. It was worked in the early 1900's and has been pretty much idle since them.

This is my first detector but I have used the gold bug 2 & tesoro lobo and feel comfortable with both. I know there is a learning curve involved but the Infinium is so straight forward it seems like the only thing left to learn is the subtle differences in tones.

So I've taken it out twice now. The first time I got awesome hi/low tones but was unprepared for the area & didnt bring the correct tools. After digging down, I kept hitting very large boulders that I couldnt move. The infinium kept saying the "gold" was below the boulders. The area is on a ledge by a creek so I will go back with my crowbars and remove the obstacles & let you know what is below them.

The second time I took a friend. I only ended up with about an hour and a half of detecting. He had a bad tooth so I had to take him home. The day ended up being a bust. During that time though, I ended up finding a number of very small rusty nails, more like brads. They toned out initially as low high but when discriminated changed to a high low so I dug them up.

The problem I kept running into is with pinpointing. It might just be me but who knows. I am using the 10" mono. Both the manual and posts say sweep side to side and determine where the signal is the loudest. Then slowly with 1-2 inch movement & from the back to front, determine where the loudest signal is. Then x marks the spot & should be centered in the coil. I do this but the target is always just of the center of the right side of the coil. Its never to the left, front or back. Just the right. That made for some rather large holes until I figured it out.

Am I doing something wrong or is there an issue going on that I am not aware of.

Thanks for your replys.

Nathan

 

[Fishers Ghost]

When pinpointing only listen to the leading tone as the coil sweeps the target and mentally note the position of the tone in relation to the centre of the coil as the coil sweeps past the target
Then sweep front to back and again note the position of the tone in relation to the centre of the coil as it passes over the target.
The centre of the two tones is the target pinpoint.

When using the eliptical coils you may have to move your body around 90 degrees to get the second tone because sometimes the tone when scanning along the long axis axis of the coil does not sound off the same tone as along the short axis.

If the target is on the surface and is small you will hear a double tone as the target passes each side of the coil, in this case the target is in the centre of the two double tones. ( the quiet area)

If the target is giving a broad signal then raise the coil until the signal is short or try lowering the sensitivity (turn threshold down)and pinpoint as above.

Just exp a bit and you will figure it out.

 

[NathanW]

Thank for the information Fishers Ghost
I will try it out and see how it goes

 

[vermaram2011]

Thank for post.The second time I took a friend. I only ended up with about an hour and a half of detecting. He had a bad tooth so I had to take him home. The day ended up being a bust. During that time though, I ended up finding a number of very small rusty nails, more like brads. They toned out initially as low high but when discriminated changed to a high low so I dug them up.Thank you.
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[Fishers Ghost]

The Infinium and Discrimination.

I wish discrimination on any detector was cut and dried simple but it isn't.

Very generally speaking, Infinium Lo/Hi tones will be iron &steel and a lot of rusty iron will often produce a Hi/Lo tone. Small Gold nuggets (0.1 gm to around 20 gm mostly will be Hi/Lo and beyond that the larger nuggs will mostly be Lo/HI depending on what other metals are in the nugget.
The main thing to remember with gold is that no matter what tone it gives in the Normal mode it will give a Hi/Lo tone in reverse discrimination.

So a simple rule is that you should always dig a target that produces a Hi/Lo tone in rev disc at a lower level than what it produced in normal mode.

Small gold nuggets will disc out in rev disc therefore ANY weak signal that discs out in rev disc should be uncovered enough to determine what tone it is in rev disc. If it is Hi/Lo then it Might be gold. ( but not always, Discrimination is not foolproof)

Silver often gives a Lo/Hi tone in normal and rev disc (some is Hi/Lo) at a reduced strength to what it gives in normal mode; ( A silver target does not reduce in strength as much as a similar sized gold nugg) So what you are looking for is a target that reduces in strength and or changes to Hi/Lo in rev disc if you want to find gold or silver.

When you use the Rev Disc to check for a tone change, always turn the control full clockwise.... and remember to reset it to zero before you continue detecting. Also whenever you re ground balance , make sure the disc is set to zero first.

Steel Bottle caps almost always give a Hi/Lo tone.
If you get a very strong Hi/Lo in Normal mode that discriminates out pretty much completely in reverse disc, then the odds are pretty good that it is a steel bottle cap. ( A strong signal from gold will not disc out completely in rev Disc) If you get a strong Lo/HI in normal that is still strong in rev disc then you are likely to have a coat hangar or tent peg or iron bolt/nut type of target.
Bobby pins are Hi/Lo and give a multiple signal tone change in one sweep direction as do small bits of steel wire.

Some rusty steel bottle caps can give a signal very like gold and you have no choice but to dig these signals.

Aluminium drink cans are mainly Lo/Hi tone in both normal and rev disc (but not always, so you might find yourself digging a few of these.

If you are searching mullock heaps looking for small gold tossed out from the lead below then I would sugest that you use the 8 inch mono or either of the two small double Ds. The mono is very sensitive and gets good depth. The small dds will find the same size gold as the small mono but at less depth.
Scan very slowly and listen for the quiet Hi/Los, donot bother with the Rev disc in this case and dig All targets.

Discrimination and the Infinium is not cut and dried infalable and like all discrimination, it varies with ground conditions,type of metal, shape, orientation to the coil, whether the ground is wet or dry etc, etc.

I could go on forever about the Infinium but this will do for now.

PS.
Might be an idea to check those bits of qtz for gold as it takes a lot of mineralisation to get a response from the Infinium.
I have a piece of iron ore that a supper magnet will stick solid to and is very difficult to remove but my Infinium has no probs finding a 0.2 gm gold nug through it, the rock is 2.2 pounds and 1.5 inches thick

 

[NathanW]

I guess I must still be doing it wrong or something is awry. I can not get the target to pinpoint in relation to the center of the coil. I am using the 10x14 mono and it always pinpoints at the 12 o'clock position when sweeping or 6 o'clock if moving front to back and the LS always starts toning out the target well ahead of the coil itself. Depending on depth and target, it will tone a piece of high conductivity metal; nail, wire, shotgun shell and at worse a soda can, 6 to 10 inches ahead of the coil. Is that normal? After getting a tone, I am trying to use the technique you describe but if I mark the target to the center of the coil in relation to the leading edge of the tone and do the same going front to back, my dig is always well behind where the target actually is.

Again, I'm not sure if it is me or the LS. I am having problem with the power switch also. It will not battery check in the position just before slow. I talked to Garrett about this and they said just turn it on straight to slow or lock and it will be fine. I tried this today multiple times and had to turn it on and off several times before it would battery check as it would only give a short tone. I did replace the batteries with fresh Duracell's before using today.

Also, I cannot get the 8" mono to GB. No matter how many times I try, it will not settle down. If the coil brushes against anything, it will tone out The coil wire is properly seated in the housing. I was out at the claim, the mineralization is minimal and there is no electrical interference. I even tried to adjust the frequency but the coil will not smooth out. This is the second 8" coil as the first one did the same thing & I had it replaced by Garrett.

I know there are multiple issues I am addressing here and I probably should have posted them separately. I just wanted to either point out a problem with the LS or my inexperience at properly using this MD.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[Fishers Ghost]

HI Nathan W.
You do seem to have a few issues with the Infinium.
from what you have said I believe that the control box has a ground balance fault and that would account for all of the noise problems and likely some of the Pinpointing hassles as well.
I think you should send the beast in to garrett (control box and at least one coil).

Large cans and othe similar size bits of metal like axes and picks etc will sound off quite some distance from the centre of the coil, small coins, rings nuggets tin lids etc will sound of strongest in the centre of the coil or very slightly left or right of centre or front to back but always inside the diameter of the coil. The 10 x 14 mono seems to be more sensitive a few cm forward of centre ( well mine does at any rate) The Big DD can be a pain to pinpoint with on small targets and is a coil I seldom use..

Even with large targets the item will be in the centre of the space between the leading tone and the return sweep leading tone; You can use the trailing tones if you like, the result will be the same, just don't mix one with the other.

If the batteries have several hours on them and down to 3 beeps the detector may on occasions not switch on at the first attemp.
When you switch on, go smoothly through to Lock and then do the frequency and GB adjusting. REMEMBER TO BE IN SLOW OR FAST TRACK WHEN GROUND BALANCING and DISCRIMINATION AT ZERO. ALSO BE IN LOCK WHEN FREQUENCY ADJUSTING. The On/Off switch is not a simple switch and has several sets of contacts that are either normally on or normally off contacts and if one set either opens or closes a millifart late or early the detector might not turn on. If the detector is doing that often then the switch may be faulty.

I am not sure what you ment by Not getting a battery check in the first position before Slow?? The first position before Slow is OFF. The battery test should begin as soon as the power switch is moved out of the OFF position and will continue even if you have switched right through to Fast Track.

If you have been detecting in some extreme iron mineralised ground then gone to an area of low mineralisation, the detector may take some time to get the GB setting to come down to the Lower level (a couple of minutes of pumping maybe). I had this problem once and thought the detector was cactus but all it took was a bit more time spent getting the GB to adjust down.

Something else you could try?

Set the detector up and running in an electronically quiet place are like your claim.

With Disc at zero, Mode in Lock and Threshold at about 5, pass an US one cent accross the coil (10 x 14 MONO) at 6 inches distant; You should get a warbly lo/hi, hi/lo a mix of both. Then set disc to between 2 and 3 and the tone should change to a positive HI/LO and remain HI/LO all the way round to Iron Check position and be clearly audible in all positions of the disc dial at the 5 to 6 inch mark.

Then with a US quarter, do the same thing but this time the tones should remain LO/HI and be clearly audible in all settings of the disc controll at the 6 inch mark.

This may not indicate that your detector does not have GB fault but it will show that it is detecting metal in the correct sense..


Anyway, having said all of this I still think your machine needs some adjusting by Garrett.

 

[NathanW]

Thanks for your reply

Maybe it is a ground balance fault issue. All the things you state as normal operation on yours is certainly difference than what I experience.
My tones are always loudest at the front of the 10x14 mono coil and as I said I usually get a very strong tone many inches ahead of the front of the coil. I haven't used the DD that came with it.
I've put coins, misc items found & gold on the ground to see how the unit reacts & I've never got the strongest tone even close to center.

I ground balance and frequency adjust just as you described. I don't rush the process. I spent most of 15 minutes trying to get the 8" to settle down, two different times,in two different places, before switching to the 10".

I will try the suggestions with the coins but agree a call to Garrett is in order.

Your expertise is appreciated

 

[NathanW]

One other thing that may or not be relevant. When I have located a target and start digging, I set the MD a good 18-24 inches away from the far side of the hole. The md high tones like crazy when I use the digging tool in the hole. Should the md be detecting the presence of the tool that far away?

 

[Fishers Ghost]

Depends on what your digging tool is.
I normally have to place my detector at least 3 to 6 feet away when I am digging if I don't want to hear any noise. and now that I am using cordless HPs it is easy to do and not worry about the headphones pulling off.
A small iron trowel or spade would certainly interfere with the Inf at 18 inches in or out of the hole. A small knife or pocket knife should not be a problem at that distance.
High qual Stainless steel diggers are generally not detected strongly by a PI .
I am still assuming that you are not picking up any external elec interference.