Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.
PI TRIVIA
- Thread starter diver420
- Start date
Eric Foster was the developer of the first PI detector as we know it. I want to say in the 60's some time. He was most likely the first to market one also.
Most commercial PI's available today owe their existence to one of Eric's circuits. All the manufactures should give Eric a big thank you.
Most commercial PI's available today owe their existence to one of Eric's circuits. All the manufactures should give Eric a big thank you.
Prospector Al
New member
Hi Bill and Fellow Detectorists,
I believe I'm the first guy to design a PI detector in the U.S.A.
That happened in May, 1968. I thought I was the first in the world to make such a device, but then I discovered that Barringer, in Canada, had used the pulse-induction technique in geophysical prospecting, in the late fifties...
The detectors used on conveyor belts here are based on my original design, which I first used in a hand-held detector, but when I was told that this device had an industrial application, I never marketed a detector for hobby use...
For the full story, go to http://www.golddetector.info and click on
"History"
Prospector Al
I believe I'm the first guy to design a PI detector in the U.S.A.
That happened in May, 1968. I thought I was the first in the world to make such a device, but then I discovered that Barringer, in Canada, had used the pulse-induction technique in geophysical prospecting, in the late fifties...
The detectors used on conveyor belts here are based on my original design, which I first used in a hand-held detector, but when I was told that this device had an industrial application, I never marketed a detector for hobby use...
For the full story, go to http://www.golddetector.info and click on
"History"
Prospector Al
Eric Foster
New member
Hi All,
J R Wait of Toronto University wrote a paper in 1951 entitled "A Conducting Sphere in a Time Varying Magnetic Field". In it he proposed using a magnetic step function, which is the basis of PI. Barringer's units for mineral prospecting undoubtedly evolved from that work, as he was based in or near Toronto. Other papers followed in 1955 and 1956 by a British Army research establishment on a Pulsed Bomb Locator. Oxford University started work on a portable PI for archaeological work in 1965, and I joined them in 1966. Elsec, (Littlemore Scientific Engineering Co.) were probably the first to market portable land and underwater PI's. Professor Hall, who owned Elsec, was also the Director of the Archaeological Research Laboratory and often produced things that were developed there. I started developing and producing PI's for sale in 1969.
Eric.
J R Wait of Toronto University wrote a paper in 1951 entitled "A Conducting Sphere in a Time Varying Magnetic Field". In it he proposed using a magnetic step function, which is the basis of PI. Barringer's units for mineral prospecting undoubtedly evolved from that work, as he was based in or near Toronto. Other papers followed in 1955 and 1956 by a British Army research establishment on a Pulsed Bomb Locator. Oxford University started work on a portable PI for archaeological work in 1965, and I joined them in 1966. Elsec, (Littlemore Scientific Engineering Co.) were probably the first to market portable land and underwater PI's. Professor Hall, who owned Elsec, was also the Director of the Archaeological Research Laboratory and often produced things that were developed there. I started developing and producing PI's for sale in 1969.
Eric.
Hi Al
Very interesting link. Your friend wouldn't happen to be George P. of detector fame?
The time line is very close on the development of the PI, and it looks like it did go in two different directions, industrial, and hobby, (this may be a little vague). I have read they were others around the world just about the same time that were working on PI designs. It looks like the PI was due to have it's day, one way or another.
diver420's post was a little vague, and asking about PI detectors without stating what type, I can see it leading to some confusion, and misinformation perhaps.
Very interesting link. Your friend wouldn't happen to be George P. of detector fame?
The time line is very close on the development of the PI, and it looks like it did go in two different directions, industrial, and hobby, (this may be a little vague). I have read they were others around the world just about the same time that were working on PI designs. It looks like the PI was due to have it's day, one way or another.
diver420's post was a little vague, and asking about PI detectors without stating what type, I can see it leading to some confusion, and misinformation perhaps.
Prospector Al
New member
Hi bill,
No, it wasn't George P. I didn't know about him at the time. However,
when I filed for a patent on the magnetic flowmeter I mentioned, the technology was so similar to George's metal detector, that he cited my patent as a reference in his patent. Now, I filed for a patent on the detector I'm working on and I cited one his later patents as a reference...I hope to meet the man, one day.
Eric had been active in the field for many years, before I heard about him at a mining conference in Las Vegas. A guy from England said there was this famous inventor there, but not too many of his detectors had crossed the pond at the time...
It was thanks to this Forum that I learned all the facts. Great site!
I didn't mean to mention my work here, but the call for trivia
by diver420 proved to be too much of a temptation...
Al
No, it wasn't George P. I didn't know about him at the time. However,
when I filed for a patent on the magnetic flowmeter I mentioned, the technology was so similar to George's metal detector, that he cited my patent as a reference in his patent. Now, I filed for a patent on the detector I'm working on and I cited one his later patents as a reference...I hope to meet the man, one day.
Eric had been active in the field for many years, before I heard about him at a mining conference in Las Vegas. A guy from England said there was this famous inventor there, but not too many of his detectors had crossed the pond at the time...
It was thanks to this Forum that I learned all the facts. Great site!
I didn't mean to mention my work here, but the call for trivia
by diver420 proved to be too much of a temptation...
Al
Hi Al,
I thought I would mention Bill Hays also. He spoke very highly of you and was the one who informed me of some of your previous designs. I can't believe Bill is as active as he is at the age of about 80 now.
As for George, I had the pleasure of meeting him about 1986. He is one very knowledgeable person also. Fortunately, we have kept in contact over the years. I just would like to see both you and him write down your knowledge and pass it on some day. I know I have been prodding George to write one.
That goes for Eric also. I hope he takes the time to write the book he has mentioned in the past. His knowledge of PI's is extraordinary.
All of you have a wealth of knowledge that shouldn't be lost. Hopefully, if all of you write a book it would provide some return for the knowledge you have.
Reg
I thought I would mention Bill Hays also. He spoke very highly of you and was the one who informed me of some of your previous designs. I can't believe Bill is as active as he is at the age of about 80 now.
As for George, I had the pleasure of meeting him about 1986. He is one very knowledgeable person also. Fortunately, we have kept in contact over the years. I just would like to see both you and him write down your knowledge and pass it on some day. I know I have been prodding George to write one.
That goes for Eric also. I hope he takes the time to write the book he has mentioned in the past. His knowledge of PI's is extraordinary.
All of you have a wealth of knowledge that shouldn't be lost. Hopefully, if all of you write a book it would provide some return for the knowledge you have.
Reg
Prospector Al
New member
Hi Reg,
Thanks for your kind words. Bill Hays was the guy who got me involved with metal detectors in the first place. However, if he hadn't told me that there was an industrial application for a PI detector, I might have marketed one for prospectors, instead of going after the mining market.
You are absolutely right--someone ought to write a comprehensive book about metal detector technology and also about the electrical characteristics of rocks. When I detected my first "hot rock", I went to the geophysical libraries at UCLA and the University of Reno to find an explanation for the phenomenon. There was absolutely no information on the subject. (Electrical conductivity of the soil was the only related subject, but that did not explain what I was observing...) If we "old-timers" don't preserve the knowledge, future designers will be faced with the same lack of information.
Keep prodding Eric and George to write the book. If they haven't done it by the time I retire, I'll do it. Of course, they may have knowledge I don't, so a collaborative effort or three books might be best.
I'm seven years beind Bill. I don't know how old George is, but judging from the time-line of his activities, he must be about the same age. This is turning out to be a lot of trivia...I hope it's not considered inappropriate, because it really has little to do with the main purpose of this Forum...
Best,
Al
Thanks for your kind words. Bill Hays was the guy who got me involved with metal detectors in the first place. However, if he hadn't told me that there was an industrial application for a PI detector, I might have marketed one for prospectors, instead of going after the mining market.
You are absolutely right--someone ought to write a comprehensive book about metal detector technology and also about the electrical characteristics of rocks. When I detected my first "hot rock", I went to the geophysical libraries at UCLA and the University of Reno to find an explanation for the phenomenon. There was absolutely no information on the subject. (Electrical conductivity of the soil was the only related subject, but that did not explain what I was observing...) If we "old-timers" don't preserve the knowledge, future designers will be faced with the same lack of information.
Keep prodding Eric and George to write the book. If they haven't done it by the time I retire, I'll do it. Of course, they may have knowledge I don't, so a collaborative effort or three books might be best.
I'm seven years beind Bill. I don't know how old George is, but judging from the time-line of his activities, he must be about the same age. This is turning out to be a lot of trivia...I hope it's not considered inappropriate, because it really has little to do with the main purpose of this Forum...
Best,
Al
Hi Al,
I would make this recommendation to all of you who have an extreme amount of knowledge and that is to start writing the book now. One of the difficulties in getting started is to select a topic and then discuss the issue.
I recommend this; scan the various applicable websites and select relevant questions and simply answer them. The answers do not have to be posted on the site, but simply sent back to yourself and then either categorized or moved to a "book" folder. This way, much of the work will already have been done. Also, when something else is thought of, you can add it to what has already been written.
One of the difficulties I have found is to try to remember all the topics that should be covered. That is where the questions posted on the forums come in. A lot of the key questions are asked on a regular basis. Some of the more technical questions are asked less frequently, but usually do show up. So, this is a good way to start. The key is to start now and not wait.
What happens when people wait is when they are too tired to work on projects, there is little energy left even for writing, so much of the work should have been done by then. Also, the thought of tackling a book is a big task by itself, so I also recommend smaller booklets covering the various subjects. This way, at least some of the information is preserved. Also, smaller booklets are more manageable.
I hope all of you take the time to write as much as possible and publish it, at least in pieces, so the rest of us can learn from your knowledge.
Thanks,
Reg
I would make this recommendation to all of you who have an extreme amount of knowledge and that is to start writing the book now. One of the difficulties in getting started is to select a topic and then discuss the issue.
I recommend this; scan the various applicable websites and select relevant questions and simply answer them. The answers do not have to be posted on the site, but simply sent back to yourself and then either categorized or moved to a "book" folder. This way, much of the work will already have been done. Also, when something else is thought of, you can add it to what has already been written.
One of the difficulties I have found is to try to remember all the topics that should be covered. That is where the questions posted on the forums come in. A lot of the key questions are asked on a regular basis. Some of the more technical questions are asked less frequently, but usually do show up. So, this is a good way to start. The key is to start now and not wait.
What happens when people wait is when they are too tired to work on projects, there is little energy left even for writing, so much of the work should have been done by then. Also, the thought of tackling a book is a big task by itself, so I also recommend smaller booklets covering the various subjects. This way, at least some of the information is preserved. Also, smaller booklets are more manageable.
I hope all of you take the time to write as much as possible and publish it, at least in pieces, so the rest of us can learn from your knowledge.
Thanks,
Reg
Prospector Al
New member
Hi Reg, You make some good suggestions, but I foresee some problems. One of the reasons why progress has been so slow in this field is that the views held by many "experts" are incorrect. If it weren't so, we would now have a PI-type detector that could discriminate reliable against iron, to the maximum detection depth.
When you publish in a scientific journal, your work is subjected to "peer review", and an editor serves as a judge, when it comes to sorting out the facts from opposing opinions. To avoid causing more confusion than is already present in this field, a similar procedure would have to be relied on.
A second problem is that, unless protected by patents, many pieces of knowledge are kept as trade secrets and they represent money in the bank--not to be given away freely, because it took a lot of effort to gather the knowledge.
For that reason, the patent literature may be the best source of information that is availble. It may be too technical in nature for the average prospector, though. Perhaps a "popularized" version of the information there would be of value.
I'll act on you suggestion and start compiling a list FAQs. My responses might differ from those of Eric and George, however. Perhaps there is room for Technical Discussion Forum, where evidence for a given viewpoint could be presented? That kind of discussion would not be appropriate in this Forum, in my opinion...
Al
When you publish in a scientific journal, your work is subjected to "peer review", and an editor serves as a judge, when it comes to sorting out the facts from opposing opinions. To avoid causing more confusion than is already present in this field, a similar procedure would have to be relied on.
A second problem is that, unless protected by patents, many pieces of knowledge are kept as trade secrets and they represent money in the bank--not to be given away freely, because it took a lot of effort to gather the knowledge.
For that reason, the patent literature may be the best source of information that is availble. It may be too technical in nature for the average prospector, though. Perhaps a "popularized" version of the information there would be of value.
I'll act on you suggestion and start compiling a list FAQs. My responses might differ from those of Eric and George, however. Perhaps there is room for Technical Discussion Forum, where evidence for a given viewpoint could be presented? That kind of discussion would not be appropriate in this Forum, in my opinion...
Al
Al
Your opinions are more than appropriate for this forum.
Over the years the forum goes in sightly different directions. Sometimes we have a lot of questions & answers from the end users, and sometimes we have a lot of question/statements from engineers, designers, inventors.
If the amount of information coming in were to overwhelm this forum, it's an easy thing to do setting up a new forum.
Please, post away.
Have a nice day
Your opinions are more than appropriate for this forum.
Over the years the forum goes in sightly different directions. Sometimes we have a lot of questions & answers from the end users, and sometimes we have a lot of question/statements from engineers, designers, inventors.
If the amount of information coming in were to overwhelm this forum, it's an easy thing to do setting up a new forum.
Please, post away.
Have a nice day