mastereagle22
New member
Found this last night while detecting with a buddy. The area it was found in is a public park by a cemetery established in 1808. This was not found on Cemetery property.
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Part of a statue??
- Thread starter mastereagle22
- Start date
Steve(Can)
Well-known member
Interesting find, Mastereagle. The skull cap, known as a zucchetto is worn by the priesthood of the Catholic church, designated by colour: The pope's is white; a cardinal's red; a bishop's purple; a priest's black.
In looking through related statues, art, and monuments, your statue head does not resemble any of the usual patron saints... however, it is a very close likeness to Leo XIII, Roman Catholic pope from 1878 to 1903. (So close, it appears the pic posted below for comparison is the reference the artist worked from to produce the statue)
http://www.nndb.com/people/387/000088123/
For comparison:
Throughout the 1800's, there were strong anti-catholic sentiments in the country, particularly after the waves of Irish-Catholic immigrants during the potato famine of 1845-1850. From this time to the end of the century, the population of Catholics in America doubled and then doubled again. To complicate matters further, the economy at the end of the 1800's was in tough shape, times were hard and many placed the blame on the new immigrants. As a result, attacks against persons and property, including grave-yard vandalism, were common occurances.
As an example of the level of resentment against Catholics at the time, an exerpt from the American Crusader, published July 29, 1854:
>>THINGS WHICH ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS AND ALL TRUE ROMAN CATHOLICS HATE
Providence, July 22, 1854
1. They HATE our Republic, and are trying to overthrow it.
2. They HATE the American Eagle, and it offends them beyond endurance to see it worn as an ornament by Americans.
3. They HATE our Flag, as it manifest by their grossly insulting it.
4. They HATE the liberty of conscience.
5. They HATE the liberty of the Press.
6. They HATE the liberty of speech.
7. They HATE our Common School system.
8. They HATE the Bible, and would blot it out of existence if they could!
9. The Priests HATE married life, and yet by them is fulfilled the Scripture, to wit: 'more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife.'
10. They HATE Protestants, and are sworn to exterminate them from our country and the earth.
11. They HATE the name of WASHINGTON, because he was a Republican and Protestant.
12. They HATE all rulers that do not swear allegiance to the Pope of Rome.
13. They HATE to be ruled by Americans, and say 'WE WILL NOT BE RULED BY THEM!'
14. They HATE to support their own paupers and they are left to be supported by the tax paying Americans.
15. They HATE, above all, the 'Know-Nothings,' who are determined to rid this country from their accursed power.
In looking through related statues, art, and monuments, your statue head does not resemble any of the usual patron saints... however, it is a very close likeness to Leo XIII, Roman Catholic pope from 1878 to 1903. (So close, it appears the pic posted below for comparison is the reference the artist worked from to produce the statue)
http://www.nndb.com/people/387/000088123/
For comparison:
Throughout the 1800's, there were strong anti-catholic sentiments in the country, particularly after the waves of Irish-Catholic immigrants during the potato famine of 1845-1850. From this time to the end of the century, the population of Catholics in America doubled and then doubled again. To complicate matters further, the economy at the end of the 1800's was in tough shape, times were hard and many placed the blame on the new immigrants. As a result, attacks against persons and property, including grave-yard vandalism, were common occurances.
As an example of the level of resentment against Catholics at the time, an exerpt from the American Crusader, published July 29, 1854:
>>THINGS WHICH ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS AND ALL TRUE ROMAN CATHOLICS HATE
Providence, July 22, 1854
1. They HATE our Republic, and are trying to overthrow it.
2. They HATE the American Eagle, and it offends them beyond endurance to see it worn as an ornament by Americans.
3. They HATE our Flag, as it manifest by their grossly insulting it.
4. They HATE the liberty of conscience.
5. They HATE the liberty of the Press.
6. They HATE the liberty of speech.
7. They HATE our Common School system.
8. They HATE the Bible, and would blot it out of existence if they could!
9. The Priests HATE married life, and yet by them is fulfilled the Scripture, to wit: 'more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife.'
10. They HATE Protestants, and are sworn to exterminate them from our country and the earth.
11. They HATE the name of WASHINGTON, because he was a Republican and Protestant.
12. They HATE all rulers that do not swear allegiance to the Pope of Rome.
13. They HATE to be ruled by Americans, and say 'WE WILL NOT BE RULED BY THEM!'
14. They HATE to support their own paupers and they are left to be supported by the tax paying Americans.
15. They HATE, above all, the 'Know-Nothings,' who are determined to rid this country from their accursed power.
mastereagle22
New member
I have to say I totally agree with you. The local priest I was talking to about this said the same thing. Still that makes this pretty old.
And it is still really cool.
And it is still really cool.
Steve(Can)
Well-known member
...the only thing with the cemetery theory is that I don't recall ever seeing a figure of a pope on a grave marker--lambs, angels, patron saints, the Virgin Mary, Christ... but no popes.
From the quarter dollar in your pic, it looks like the head is about 1-1/2 inches? Since the human figure is 7 heads high, that would make the original figurine 10 to 12 inches high if standing erect, say, 7 inches if seated. That's a pretty small statue as part of a grave marker.
Places where a statue of the pope like this would be?... in a local parish church, a convent, possibly brought from the Vatican by a visiting priest... gosh, could be anything I suppose.
One thing to consider as another possibility... When an item that has been blessed is to be disposed, say because it has been damaged, it cannot simply be discarded. One of the approved methods of disposal is for the item to be buried by a priest. For example, if this statue of the pope had accidently fallen and the head knocked off, it would have been taken by a priest and ceremonially buried in the ground.
If that is the case--and who can say?-- the head and the rest of the statue would have been buried together, which means you may have left the rest in the bottom or the side of the hole. Just a thought, but it might be worth a double check.
Yep, still really cool, Mastereagle.
From the quarter dollar in your pic, it looks like the head is about 1-1/2 inches? Since the human figure is 7 heads high, that would make the original figurine 10 to 12 inches high if standing erect, say, 7 inches if seated. That's a pretty small statue as part of a grave marker.
Places where a statue of the pope like this would be?... in a local parish church, a convent, possibly brought from the Vatican by a visiting priest... gosh, could be anything I suppose.
One thing to consider as another possibility... When an item that has been blessed is to be disposed, say because it has been damaged, it cannot simply be discarded. One of the approved methods of disposal is for the item to be buried by a priest. For example, if this statue of the pope had accidently fallen and the head knocked off, it would have been taken by a priest and ceremonially buried in the ground.
If that is the case--and who can say?-- the head and the rest of the statue would have been buried together, which means you may have left the rest in the bottom or the side of the hole. Just a thought, but it might be worth a double check.
Yep, still really cool, Mastereagle.
Jim West Pa
New member
n/t
Jim West Pa
New member
n/t
Steve(Can)
Well-known member
...well Jim, I married into a Catholic family and I must say that has been an ongoing education. 
As far as the burying of blessed items. A few years ago, I had permission from the Mother Superior to hunt in the sprawling grounds of a old convent that was a former orphanage way back into the early 1800's. What's that old saying about "selling beyond the close"? She had given me permission, no problem, and then I mentioned out of goodwill that I would return to her any items that I found that was related to the history of the convent. At that she gasped, and then told me about the burying of items, cruxifixes and such, by the priests. And that was that--permission revoked just as fast as I had gotten it.
Probably just as well it happened like that, as she would have really gasped had I come to her later with a bunch of the blessed stuff in my grubby hands.
I still imagine all the stuff that a bunch of street urchins and the nuns would have picked up and dropped again in the course of a hundred and fifty years--all still scattered there in the virgin grounds beneath those big old trees.
As far as the burying of blessed items. A few years ago, I had permission from the Mother Superior to hunt in the sprawling grounds of a old convent that was a former orphanage way back into the early 1800's. What's that old saying about "selling beyond the close"? She had given me permission, no problem, and then I mentioned out of goodwill that I would return to her any items that I found that was related to the history of the convent. At that she gasped, and then told me about the burying of items, cruxifixes and such, by the priests. And that was that--permission revoked just as fast as I had gotten it.
Probably just as well it happened like that, as she would have really gasped had I come to her later with a bunch of the blessed stuff in my grubby hands.
I still imagine all the stuff that a bunch of street urchins and the nuns would have picked up and dropped again in the course of a hundred and fifty years--all still scattered there in the virgin grounds beneath those big old trees.
Jim West Pa
New member
o' them kind o' schools and thot i knew a lot about them.The more i learn about them the more cultish they seem to be.
Isn't there a preist there that over rules her? If i recall correctly he allways had the last word at our school/church. Maybe you could go back and talk with him ? I can smell the silver there
Isn't there a preist there that over rules her? If i recall correctly he allways had the last word at our school/church. Maybe you could go back and talk with him ? I can smell the silver there
mastereagle22
New member
I can take a picture of the inside if you want. It is hollow and there are no openings on the top, no where for anything to be attached inside and no sign that anything was. Given the rough and uneven edge around the neck I would say it came off of a statue. That being said a local priest said he was 98% sure it was a past pope and not John Paul II. He said he has seen other statues similar to this and this one appears to be old. He also said that if it was broken a ceremony would have been held by the priest and he would have said a few prayers and then burried the broken item. So I HAVE to go back and see if I can find anything more of the item. I can tell you that Whitetails4ever was with me with his XLT and my Deleon was there to and we got no other signals. So if the rest of the item is nearby it is probably too deep for us to find. This thing was 8 inches deep. The priest said this was not a funeral related item unless, AND HERE IS THE CREEPY part, it was burried with someone. Oh great!!!!