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Parks off limits? Guy makes point--Council sets policy not park staffers.
- Thread starter vlad
- Start date
sprchng
Well-known member
Policy was in effect for 10 years but unenforced until someone "alerted" a staffer who decided to make an issue of it , most likely someone encouraged into the hobby by youtube glory and flashy finds. Yeah folks lets encourage more people into an activity with limited resources ,,,it's good for the dealers/sponsors.
still looking 52
Well-known member
Very interesting article. Bottom line there are both responsible and irresponsible people in the general public and in the metal detecting hobby and they need to be treated the same by this you can't said the parks are off limits to everyone but if someone is being irresponsible then take action against that person and they same policy holds true for metal detecting.
vlad
Well-known member
They do not outlaw people using beverage cans or bottles on the sites (and left there).........illegal drugs (needles) guns (bullets are illegal.......how is that working out??? 
We remove trash-------not park people---they just run mowers over it.
Spreads the glass and sharp metal all over.
We remove trash-------not park people---they just run mowers over it.
Spreads the glass and sharp metal all over.
People, read carefully . Read slowly. When you do, you'll see this is another CLASSIC EXAMPLE of what I've been harping on for years. An admitted bee-in-my-bonnet. And here it is, plain to see. In a nutshell :
a) A city has ordinances about digging, excavating, and taking, removing, artifacts, etc.... All of this is BOILER PLATE MINUTIA for all cities. And can be found in ANY PARK or speck of public land in the USA. I mean, of COURSE there are prohibitions on harvest, remove, take, blah blah. So that no one can take home the park benches, or harvest all the sod for commercial sale. And OF COURSE there's boiler plate language that forbids: Alter, deface, molest, and so forth. So that no numbskull can go spin donuts on the lawn in his 4 wheel drive, etc.....
Were these things ever meant to snare md'rs ? Of course not. They pre-date the invention of metal detectors. But if they DO "of necessity" mean: " No md'ing", then we can all just sit and home and never metal detect. Because I guarantee you, that such wording exists on every speck of public land. Yet, oddly, all of us md'rs are going to public land EVERY DAY and md'ing. (as evidenced by a quick glance at any md'ing forum "today's find" bragging sections. How can this be ? Are we all law-less ? After all, we're "altering" and "disturbing". We're "taking and removing". And (gasp) we *might* find a coin over 50 yrs. old (gasp).
b) How then do these instances where .... all of the sudden policies or rules pop up, MAKING IT OFFICIAL TO APPLY TO US ? Why does one park WITH THE EXACT SAME BOILER PLATE RULES get detected ad-nauseum in various cities (parks, beaches, forests, etc....) and no one ever has an issues ? Yet in another city, park, forest, beach, etc... WITH THE EXACT SAME LANGUAGE, it's all of the sudden an issue ?
The answer is contained in the article itself. And it's just as expected, and what I've been harping on for years on forums. Here's the cut & paste quote :
" He said when his organization has an outing in a city park, it discloses that to city officials as a courtesy. "
Why ? Why do you need to go to city officials and say : "Yoohoo, we're going to be metal detecting. Is that ok ?" Would you have done that if you were going to go play frisbee there ? (after all, you might poke someone's eye out). I'm the first to admit that , yes, md'ing has ... uh .... "connotations" . Why oh why oh why then do you go "swat hornet's nests" drawing attention to yourself ? The only thing that going and parading yourself around pencil pushers (as if you need their princely blessing), is to conjure up images that you might be about to leave a hole or harm an artifact.
The MERE FACT that these people (this club) felt the need to go put it past the city's muster, simply implies that something is amiss or harmful or dangerous, etc... Lest why else would you be alerting or asking them, if were benign and harmless ?? So the mere fact of alerting or asking , simply implies that something is amiss. That you had to alert them IN THE FIRST PLACE. It's subconsciously implied , in the very fact of thinking you need to ask/alert. So the pencil pusher will search his craw for possible impacts. Then pass it on to an archie's desk, blah blah.
Then presto, you get told "no". And now you're surprised ??
This club brought this upon themselves. This is a clear example of a place where md'ing was never an issue before (at least not explicitly) UNTIL someone went asking "pressing questions" that needed "pressing answers".
Sometimes I think md'rs can be their own worst enemies
a) A city has ordinances about digging, excavating, and taking, removing, artifacts, etc.... All of this is BOILER PLATE MINUTIA for all cities. And can be found in ANY PARK or speck of public land in the USA. I mean, of COURSE there are prohibitions on harvest, remove, take, blah blah. So that no one can take home the park benches, or harvest all the sod for commercial sale. And OF COURSE there's boiler plate language that forbids: Alter, deface, molest, and so forth. So that no numbskull can go spin donuts on the lawn in his 4 wheel drive, etc.....
Were these things ever meant to snare md'rs ? Of course not. They pre-date the invention of metal detectors. But if they DO "of necessity" mean: " No md'ing", then we can all just sit and home and never metal detect. Because I guarantee you, that such wording exists on every speck of public land. Yet, oddly, all of us md'rs are going to public land EVERY DAY and md'ing. (as evidenced by a quick glance at any md'ing forum "today's find" bragging sections. How can this be ? Are we all law-less ? After all, we're "altering" and "disturbing". We're "taking and removing". And (gasp) we *might* find a coin over 50 yrs. old (gasp).
b) How then do these instances where .... all of the sudden policies or rules pop up, MAKING IT OFFICIAL TO APPLY TO US ? Why does one park WITH THE EXACT SAME BOILER PLATE RULES get detected ad-nauseum in various cities (parks, beaches, forests, etc....) and no one ever has an issues ? Yet in another city, park, forest, beach, etc... WITH THE EXACT SAME LANGUAGE, it's all of the sudden an issue ?
The answer is contained in the article itself. And it's just as expected, and what I've been harping on for years on forums. Here's the cut & paste quote :
" He said when his organization has an outing in a city park, it discloses that to city officials as a courtesy. "
Why ? Why do you need to go to city officials and say : "Yoohoo, we're going to be metal detecting. Is that ok ?" Would you have done that if you were going to go play frisbee there ? (after all, you might poke someone's eye out). I'm the first to admit that , yes, md'ing has ... uh .... "connotations" . Why oh why oh why then do you go "swat hornet's nests" drawing attention to yourself ? The only thing that going and parading yourself around pencil pushers (as if you need their princely blessing), is to conjure up images that you might be about to leave a hole or harm an artifact.
The MERE FACT that these people (this club) felt the need to go put it past the city's muster, simply implies that something is amiss or harmful or dangerous, etc... Lest why else would you be alerting or asking them, if were benign and harmless ?? So the mere fact of alerting or asking , simply implies that something is amiss. That you had to alert them IN THE FIRST PLACE. It's subconsciously implied , in the very fact of thinking you need to ask/alert. So the pencil pusher will search his craw for possible impacts. Then pass it on to an archie's desk, blah blah.
Then presto, you get told "no". And now you're surprised ??
This club brought this upon themselves. This is a clear example of a place where md'ing was never an issue before (at least not explicitly) UNTIL someone went asking "pressing questions" that needed "pressing answers".
Sometimes I think md'rs can be their own worst enemies
still looking 52 said:
Very respectfully pointing out: This has nothing to do with this particular news link and the now off-limits-spot here. No one there was being "irresponsible". They were covering their spots, leaving no trace, etc......
On the contrary; They are "taking action" against the persons who made them own selves a giant bullseye in need of attention. Not someone who was, in some way, being irresponsible. Unless , of course, you start with the definition that md'ing is, by nature " irresponsible". After all, we "alter", we "deface", we "take" we "remove", we look for "artifacts". If any of those things are defined as irresponsible, then sure, why is ANY OF US md'ing ?
I do not define md'ing in that way. I consider it to be wise, healthy, safe, harmless, nutritious, interesting, benign, etc.... Might someone disagree with that ? SURE ! Then why oh why oh why would I go to them , waving flags, waiting for their princely blessing saying "yoohoo, is this ok ?" That's like asking "yoohoo, can I pick my nose ?"
vlad said:They do not outlaw people using beverage cans or bottles on the sites (and left there).........illegal drugs (needles) guns (bullets are illegal.......how is that working out???
Vlad, don't you know what the difference is between those people who litter, use drugs, guns, etc... is, and metal detecting ?? The difference is easy to spot: Those persons didn't go ask officials: "Hi. Can I please litter, use drugs, and guns?" If they HAD, then THEY TOO would have been told "no". Then THEY TOO could start forums lamenting their lack of freedoms to exercise their hobby.
Shame on them for not asking "can I " Eh ?
I couldn't have said it any better, Tom. Or half as well, for that matter.
Being comfortable in your own skin is important in this hobby as it is in life, chasing blessings and worrying what others think of you and what you're doing is a recipe for frustration and failure.
Being comfortable in your own skin is important in this hobby as it is in life, chasing blessings and worrying what others think of you and what you're doing is a recipe for frustration and failure.
doc holiday232
New member
Tom on the club axing permission: NO good deed shall go unpunished.
doc holiday232 said:
I guess by this you mean that "asking permission" or "alerting the city that the club intends to have an md'ing outing", is the "good deed".
Not sure how that's a "good deed". I consider it to be equally a "good deed" and "law abiding" to look up the laws/rules for oneself. How much more law abiding and "good" can you be than that after all ? If nothing is found that says "no md'ing", then presto, that's "good". Why swat hornet's nests ?
I agree that not every passer-by will agree with this/my logic. Ok, your options are:
a) knock yourself out trying to convince them. To get them to love & hug you. Or:
b) Go at more opportune times after 5pm. When that lone-individual (who cares) is not around.
Which is easier ?
a) knock yourself out trying to convince them. To get them to love & hug you. Or:
b) Go at more opportune times after 5pm. When that lone-individual (who cares) is not around.
Which is easier ?
I was approached by a city park manager and when I told him I didn't dig holes he told me he didn't even want me to poke a hole (with my icepick size screwdriver) in his park! I then told him I was covering up the holes the squirrels made and I would be glad to come back and take them home for squirrel stew. He mumbled something and walked away. So far I haven't seen him again and the mowing crew hasn't bothered me.
slingshot said:
Tsk tsk tsk. You got told point blank, by a "power-that-be", that you weren't even supposed to poke the ground. Eh ? Yet you go back and continue md'ing and poking anyhow ? The fact that no one else cares, except for that one lone individual, doesn't matter. It's your duty to turn over heaven and earth and get that one lone manager to love & adore you. Tsk tsk, what's the world coming to ? Next thing you know, you'll be robbing banks, clubbing baby seals, etc....
I think he was a temporary employee filling in- I've searched there nearly 50 years. Seems he was trying for trophy points- judging from the workers' facial expressions. I'm 71 and I've worked and fought to keep careless mder's from defacing property, called police and school officials on pranksters at school, etc. and I feel for the next generation. I even followed a thankless searcher in my former club- covering his holes to chide him- maybe I should say he was shameless. A youngster probably couldn't get away with my gruffness-but who's gonna argue with a helpless lil' ol' man who is careful to the limit. I carry a LITTLE weight in the community as a responsible person and I want to have a voice. FWIW, I went to the wood chip tot lot where no recovery tools were needed to satisfy him.Tom_in_CA said:I was approached by a city park manager and when I told him I didn't dig holes he told me he didn't even want me to poke a hole (with my icepick size screwdriver) in his park! I then told him I was covering up the holes the squirrels made and I would be glad to come back and take them home for squirrel stew. He mumbled something and walked away. So far I haven't seen him again and the mowing crew hasn't bothered me.
Tsk tsk tsk. You got told point blank, by a "power-that-be", that you weren't even supposed to poke the ground. Eh ? Yet you go back and continue md'ing and poking anyhow ? The fact that no one else cares, except for that one lone individual, doesn't matter. It's your duty to turn over heaven and earth and get that one lone manager to love & adore you. Tsk tsk, what's the world coming to ? Next thing you know, you'll be robbing banks, clubbing baby seals, etc....