overload with the xt50:ausflag:

[blowfly1967]

this morning i went to a local beach to try out my newest coil and only found $3.00,so i moved on to a newly discovered tots lot.the second sweep produced a overload in the sand.with the minelab nearly all the strong signals i get turn out to be an overload.so i stopped,pulled out my mate and checked out the target area.it gave a good responce even as i thumbed the disc,so i dug it ! it was a coin spill! about ten dollars,thirty aust.how it got there,why it got there,i don't know! my point is you can't trust these machines .so many times i have had a overload signal and walked on ,what have i missed? no perfect machine,all tid lie,they only give you a maybe .my mate say's theres something there you want to take a look? damn!! it was only a pulltab this time,let's look for more.i'm not tired yet are you?no,your so light it's not a problem,we could go all day,the wife might get a bit cranky though! yer your right,lets call it quits to-day ,see you in the morning.you better believe it buddy! my mate is a compadre,he don't tell lies! blowfly hh

 

[Beale]

Congrats on the huge coin spill! That is a heck of a find, Beale.

 

[BarnacleBill]

From the Compadre user manual:

"For example: if you tune out pull-tabs, you will lose nickels, foil and iron. Take some time to practice with the discrimination settings. You may notice that targets less than one inch away from the coil may sound off even though they have been tuned out. If this occurs, lift the coil an inch or two and the detector should stop responding to the target. "

Most modern TID/VDI detectors have an overload warning feature for precisely the reason that there is the warning in the Compadre manual. Very strong signals can overcome the Discrimination setting in simple detectors like the Compadre, and cause an incorrect TID/VDI in most modern detectors. So the overload signal is a warning from the detector that "I" cannot correctly identify the target because the signal is too strong. With the Compadre and similar detectors unless you know to "lift the coil an inch or two and the detector should stop responding to the target. " you will not realize what is occurring. Another good clue of course is how "wide" the target is.

On any detector that gives an overload, lifting the coil while keeping the coil in motion to size the target is a good idea. It helps distinguish very large deep targets like steel drums, cans, and shallow pieces of flat iron that may give a high coin response. Many times for large shallow flat iron the sequence plays out this way.

1. Overload.
2. Moving & lifting coil several inches gives a high coin tone ID and reveals a large target.
3. Continuing upward 6-12 inches reveals onset on iron tones ID.
4. If the target continues to give high tone ID and signal strength begins to fall away rapidly, suspect coin spill or soda can etc.

Also keep in mind that you are using a detector with probably twice the depth of a Compadre depending on how high you are running the sensitivity and ground conditions. That's not meant to show any disrespect for the Compadre, in it's element the little Compadre is an excellent tool, especially with the small coil.

HH
BarnacleBill

P.S. The little poor quality video in the other post was not a Reindeer, it was a Bullwinkle(Moose). Being as it is Fall in the Northern Hemisphere, it is mating season and they are in the rut. They have terrible eyesight and can mistake any large moving object(human, car, etc.) as a challenger in "their" territory. I know of many bird hunters that have been treed by them during this time of year. Trying to fend one off with a shotgun is a really bad idea, because it's just going to make him really really mad. Being with city folk the first time they hear limbs snapping and the ground shaking as one makes it's way through the woods is actually pretty funny. Think Jurassic Park, an animal 7 ft at the shoulder weighing 1200 lbs trotting through the woods at 30 mph. It engenders respect. And no you're not going to out run it for very far, find tree, climb tree, change underwear.

 

[khouse]

Overload signals are just another tool to use. I'm not knocking the Compadre as I have had one. It's a fine machine. But if the Compadre had an overload option I'm sure it would have went off too. In tot lots and sand I scoop or kick every signal but low iron. Large target responses get full attention also.

 

[Canewrap]

BB, I love the way you described an encounter with a moose. I had a somewhat scary encounter in Yellowstone about 15 years ago when I was trying to get a picture of one with its baby. I was using a long lens so I could stay my distance, but some yahoos that obviously didn't know better, got too close and got her riled up and she came charging out of the woods...right in my direction and yes I cannot believe something so large can eat up ground so quick.

 

[Canewrap]

Sorry to hear you feel that way about the Xterra, but different strokes for different folks. Maybe your just more of a sound only type hunter. Most of us that use VDI/TID don't rely that heavily on it, unless we're cherry picking a site with tons of trash. Its just another tool, another source of information.

 

[Steve(MS)]

I've had a Compadre and for certain types of hunting, it will do fine but I tried using mine at old house places and it would lock on strongly to larger than nail iron of almost all kinds. Yes it will do good where it is in its element but without a non-motion mode available, it didn't do too well for me in those types of environments simply because it was more difficult to size up a target. So yes, it will lie too but if it works well for you where you are detecting, then there is nothing wrong with that. It does have very fast recovery but it is limited to one coil and no GB. For my type hunting, what I need are those extra features.
The Compadre will do well for you where coins and minor trash are close to each other.

 

[trueblue]

it comes to disc'ing ability response and recovery , the absolute trashmasters in my view

 

[Jackpine Savage]

yeah, I agree with you. It makes them fairly easy for users to wade thru the trash/iron for sure. That does not necessarily mean they are the best at response, recovery. JMHO

The Cibola and Vaquero with the 5.75 concentric when not super tuned do a admirable job around iron for those that are not accustomed to "noisy" machines or for when you want a quiter ride.

Tom

 

[trueblue]

That does not necessarily mean they are the best at response, recovery. JMHO"

Indeed , thats why I posted this thread L@@K

As for a quiet ride using the Tesoros , I would think its the other way round with the Xterra being more capable of quietly handling small iron and the ability to notch out ya more common trash items , my Tejon is by no means quiet in the trash but does more than an admirable job in these conditions .

I dont own an xterra but I have been lucky enough to lend a 70 a few times , as for the faster response and recovery I belive Tesoro clearly has the edge over the xterra , at least in my case between the XT70 & Tejon

"HH"

 

[BarnacleBill]

I did not respond regarding your original thread as I have not used the ACE250 and try to avoid comparing detectors I haven't used. That said, in my review of the X-30 I performed a recovery speed test which is listed here: http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,241421,241421#msg-241421

I also tested the X-50 using the exact same methodology in this review: http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,299162,299162#msg-299162.

The following is a link to a review I did of the Tejon:http://www.findmall.com/read.php?17,64466,64466#msg-64466

As you can see in my review of using the Tejon for hunting gold jewelry, having fast recovery and excellent sensitivity to small gold is not the complete story as to trash handling for that purpose. The very loose discrimination filtering in the iron/foil range hobbles the detector and makes it a chore to use in that endeavor. The only real way to use it for gold jewelry hunting is beep/dig.

For turbo charging the X50/X70 trash response speed, the 6 inch DD 18.75KHz coil will make it very competitive with anything on the market.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Steve(MS)]

There is much more to consider than just those 2 items.
For instance, take the Explorer, some claim it has a slow response and recovery but if you look at the finds and many of them in trashy areas, there is no doubt this detector does well in trash if one has mastered it, look at this http://www.findmall.com/read.php?10,819159,819159#msg-819159 . There are other brand/models that do as well in trash as some of the Tesoros and the 70 with the 6" coil will keep up with any of the current ones.
The old timers claim the Compadre is the best Tesoro in trash, it does do good but I liked the Whites IDX better and now I like the 70 with the 6" coil better.

 

[trueblue]

thanks guys thats what I wanted more info bring it on knowledge is power I didnt get much of a response to the Garrett , Minelab ,Tesoro ~ response recovery thread , but its now coming through this thread

 

[trueblue]

BarnacleBill , I read your reviews on the Tejon Pt1 & Pt2 an found them interesting , the fact that you belive the Tejon needs to be set @ L in foil to knock rusty nails out doesnt sit well with me because its not my expeirence with the Tejon , Im not brand loyal in anyway and am not disagreeing with your review , Im a realitive newbie to the hobby but still I get out there an put the hrs in sofar Im over 350 hrs on the Tejon .

Prehaps the reason you find yourself pushing the disc up to foil over small rusty nails ect is an inability on your part to tolerate the Tejons chatter on small iron trash ? yep it drove me nuts for the first 40hrs or so , but now its a welcome form of info I never run the disc above the N in iron right on the mark when coin hunting ghost town sites .

Ok at this disc setting the Tejon is Noisy to those whom arent accustomed to the nature of the Tejon , but once you get the hrs up on the Tejon you can hunt old gohst towns ect at very low disc where iron trash is ya main enemy , I dig very little iron small or large " this wasnt allways the case " and as we all know the discing ability of all detectors gets fooled by large iron now an then but if the operator is expeirenced enough with his or her detector he or she can certainly lower the trash digs an improve the goodies count


As for you thoughts on the dual disc and how they should have been set up by tesoro , thats a personel preference on your part , I find them to be an exectional tool for ID'ng targets and the range is spot for me .

As for comparing the BHQDII into the mix , claiming it may have performed a small miracle in revcovering a Jefferson nickel from an area that you had In your words "" sworn was scrubbed clean by the Tejon "" you said the Tejon miss'd it ! more than likely you missed it not the Tejon , I had a BHQDII an yeah it was OK but not even in class near the Tejon to even compair such a poorly made poor performer like the BHQDII is

By reading your review Bill I really dont belive you understood the Tejon enough to be comfortable @ lower disc and learn the subtle tones in disc and AM modes that really do deliver a lot of target info to the operator .

Now I aint hangin it onya ! I against your review in anyway , I just feel I need to vioce my expeirence with the Tejon

trueblue

 

[Jackpine Savage]

to be deep on brass and lead. Not all relic machines are suitable for what BB and I spend a lot of time looking for which is small gold jewelry. By small I mean stuff that reads barely above small iron. For that you need a detector that has a disc circuit that is not too tight in the small iron range. What Bill is saying is like what I found with the X5. There is no "sweet spot" or disc setting that cause ssmall iron to breakup yet still give a good signal on small gold. To accept the targets we are after a machine that beeps on nails is useless! Some people don't mind digging every bobby pin and small rusty nail to get chains and small gold and for them I say more power too 'em but, it is not neccessary with the right mahcine.

Tom

 

[khouse]

When I had my Compadre and Silver uMAX They were used in "beep dig" situations. Like tot lots and sand. But I found myself thumbing the disc knob on most every target in the dirt. Trying to eliminate needless digging. Here is my view. I think a lot of the Tesoro users are "beep dig" hunters. These type of hunters get all the good stuff and yes a lot of trash. Little masking takes place when you dig it all. But what I like about a multi tone machines IS working trash. Simply sweep slowly and listen to the tones. When you get a non iron tone that chimes in then just work that target. With the 6 inc dd coil that's easy. The stock coil is no slouch either. I find the target response in line with Tesoro. If you want to get all the good stuff with any detector simply "beep dig" regardless of the TID.

 

[BarnacleBill]

trueblue,

I posted the links to the reviews to provide information on recovery & separation as relates to working in trash with the two of the three detectors that you inquired about. As Tom (JackpineSavage) mentioned in his reply, he & I focus on a particular type of hunting under similar conditions that calls for detectors with certain characteristics. We, Tom & I, continue to search for the Holy Grail of a wading detector, that has a very broad iron discrimination range, and an absolute brick wall filter that permits no iron breakthrough, yet is sensitive enough to pick up thin gold chains & diamond stud earrings. We are trying to find items that give a response similar to these pictured below in beds of rusting nails and small foil.

[attachment 106852 earbks.jpg]

Trying to find coins or brass items like buttons is a whole different kettle of fish than looking for small gold items. That tic-tic that you hear with a Tejon could be small nail breakthrough, or a gold chain, or a diamond earring stud. With wading you are already fighting foil on the sand surface, foil under the sand, floating foil that moves across the coil as you swing it, tabs of all kinds, bottle caps of every size & make up, beds of rusting nails, bolts, flat washers, stainless steel hardware of all shapes & sizes, rivets of all types, electrical terminals of all shapes & sizes, rusting sparkler wires, lead sinkers, lead bullets & cartridges, shotgun brass etc etc. And of course my all time favorite, the 1/8 & 1/4 inch aluminum blanks that are punched out from lawn and beach chairs.

As time has passed Tom & I try out different detector & coil combination's sending reports back and forth via e-mails & PM's, and with good reason! People tend to get defensive if their favorite detector has unfavorable things posted about it on a forum. My review of the Tejon pertained to "MY" use of it for "MY" very specialized goals in this hobby. I'm not a relic hunter, ghost town hunter, park hunter, prospector, tot loter, clad shooter etc., though I have done some of those types of hunting in the past. So far there are three detectors that have come closest to this Holy Grail for wading; two are Fishers, the Edge & Excel, and the Xterra's. I own all the aforementioned because they provide a capability that other detectors Tom & I have tried, don't cut the mustard.

I didn't post the link to the Tejon review to pizz on your sneakers, it's what I found after a year's use of the detector. Having started with Tesoros using the original Cortes around 1981, and others in the meantime, I believe I have a handle on interpreting audio nuances. And currently I am the proud owner of a Tesoro derivative detector called the Red Heat Tornado, which is a sweetheart in iron with it's reverse discrimination circuit and DD coil.

If you like your Tejon and are doing well with it for your type of hunting, then by all means stick with it. If you are looking for a metered type detector, then there are several brands to choose from in the mid-price range. And of course the rumors(wishful thinking) that Tesoro will bring out a metered detector based on the HOT(Tejon, Vaquero, Cibola) platform have persisted for some time. If you are interested in the X-Terra line then I think and X50 or X70 with the 6 inch DD 18.75KHz coil would be the most similar to what you have now for trash & speed capability, since the Tejon is a 19KHz platform it will be just as sensitive to low conductors.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Jackpine Savage]

This is not aimed at you, I just want to make a point is all.

Before Tesoro came out with the Tejon which is factory super tuned all the time and the Cibola/Vaquero which can be super tuned via the threshold, Tesoro users almost all put down the 1200 series Fishers as being noisy at low disc from iron breaking thru the setting (pops clicks etc.) In their eyes that was a big negative. It's funny how perceptions change when your favorite brand is or can be made to run noisy in iron!

Tom

 

[trueblue]

I totally agree the Tejon is noisy in the Trash theres no two ways about it !

But like I said Im not brand loyal , so I dont take offence or get defensive on the negatives I read about the Tejon or any others I own

I just felt it fair to point out my experiences with the Tejon in the trash as they differ somewhat from Bills experiences but thats a given I spose considering that Bills a water hunter and I stick to terraforma , but from what I gather you guy's are looking for I think its gunna be a hard task to get any detector to acheive your goals perfectly


khouse

I also owned a Compadre and still own a Silver Umax , I totally agree with you beep & dig thats all I could ever class em as ...I couldnt pickup any subtle tones differences on the Compadre at all , the only form of ID was sizing and discrimination , I found the Silver to be not much better in the prehaps overated tone department .
As you know I ve not long had the Ace 250 and Im impressed with the lil yella fella had some great finds ID capability seems very good does ok in trash if worked slowly , the Silver is on the way out the door .... As for the tones I also enjoy multitone detectors its so much more relaxing using a machine with multi tones over a single tone that requires headphones and complete concentration at all times to be able to pick up those subtle nuances in tone such as can be found on the Tejon

 

[Jackpine Savage]

The shallows of most fresh water lakes are so iron infested that its almost constant noise and the fresh water environment seems to amplify the iron signal to the detector as well. Very tough but as you pointed out with some serious concentration you can get results. Many times it seems like 99.99% of the sounds you hear are iron trash breaking thru the disc. fortunately the human brain seems to adjust and filter the most common signals out Then the odd different sounding signal will catch your attention and its hardly ever what you would classify as a clean beep. Well maybe if your very lucky! Yup thats what its all about for both our types of hunting.!!

Tom