Outing with John Kendrick (DIV hunts) and the Blisstool

[Barry NY]

John invited us down to do a no-nonsense side by side field test putting the Blisstool against the GPX 5000, TDI, F75 and the "old faithful" Whites Blue & Gray. We previously tested the Blisstool on planted targets in the VA red dirt and it did well but we knew the real test would be seeing if we could hear targets located by a PI machine where the user said they were deep. We knew if a TDI or GPX user called us over to listen to their deep signal and the Blisstool could hear anything repeatable, it would say a lot.

We also wanted to see how scrap iron would sound. We hunted for several hours and there was a load of iron in these fields. The Blisstool picked up a couple of pieces of flat canteen iron and knocked out the rest. We found no nails and we dug no deep iron except for a strap buckle that was down about 8".

Don Dodson drove all the way up from GA to help with the field testing bringing a GPX 5000 and F75. Will used the TDI and located some deep targets. Mike B was a trooper fighting allergies and hanging in there while filming.

We will try to get some more of the filming posted in a day or two. Enjoy the video:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iEoL9zb9vE&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[Critterhunter]

With no modulated audio to tell how deep the target is, and no tone alerts or VDI, and the inability to raise discrimination even high enough to knock out pulltabs (ideally without VDI or tone alerts you should be able to raise it high enough to kill everything below copper pennies)...Even if that machine does indeed get deeper than conventional detectors I just don't see it being useful for anything but beach hunting. And as far as I hear it won't handle salt water. I think it's niche is going to be PI depth with iron discrimination ability for use on the beaches, but if they could come out with a few of the above features then that machine would have a much wider market potential.

 

[Barry NY]

Also works GREAT in farm fields/pasture getting the DEEP stuff everyone else is missing and it has super fine sensitivity to shallow and thin targets - like reales and half dimes...plus it's banging hard on gold too.
But as the website states: Not your schoolyard or park machine...

 

[Critterhunter]

Still waiting to see proof (meaning reports from people that bought one) that it will handle the various minerals in various beaches all over the country, as well as the various types of minerals in different land sites....As well as a PI or a Minelab can. Even if it performs well at all these locations I still say it's a beach detector and that's about it. How would you like to dig that deep in a field only to find can slaw, since it can't raise the discrimination high enough to knock out things like that such as pulltabs and such. And with no modulated audio for sure it's only going to be useful on private land, because you'd need to dig a rather big/wide hole without knowing if the target is 5" deep or 15" deep or deeper.

Digging wide holes on public land, even with a hand digger, is never a good idea. Most ehtical guys will only dig a plug as wide as it needs to be by the sound of just how deep the target is. If it's less than 6" deep by the sound of it I dig a plug about as big around as the bottom of a pop can, but if it sounds deeper I about double the size of the plug so I have enough room to get deeper. If that machine can live up to it's depth claims, you'd need to be digging plugs much bigger around than even that to have the ability to dig deeper in the hole. Doing that every time you dig a plug on public land because you don't know how deep the target is without modulated audio is asking for trouble....And I don't think it would be a good idea to be using something like a shovel to reach those kinds of depths on public land either.

So let's safely say it would be useful for hunting plowed fields on private land. OK...Once again your back to digging real deep to maybe only find can slaw or a pull tab because you can't knock those out with the discrimination and have no tone alerts to give you an idea of what the target might be. There can be just as much non-ferrous junk at certain sites, and deep due to plowing, as there is iron.

I'm confident that my machine can reach coins 10, 12, and even say about 14" in good soil. Even deeper in the sand. That is easily done with a hand digger, and the vast majority of coins are going to be that deep or less...So I wouldn't see the need for anything that could go deeper on land. At the beach? Sure, but a PI will do just fine at some pretty amazing depths. They can't discriminate out iron but then that's not as big of an issue on salt water beaches in many places...So perhaps the niche for that machine is even a good bit narrower...People who hunt fresh water beaches were the iron doesn't rot away fast might find it attractive to have PI depth with iron rejection. That might be the machine's best market. There's also the cost factor of it compared to a good PI to consider.

There's also another issue....Yes, most beach hunters scoop up all targets...But there are some who will avoid clads or at least zinc pennies when they are all over the place and they are pressed for time, in the hopes to increase their chances of finding a gold ring. While you are digging a penny at let's say 20 or 30 (Whatever...however deep they claim that machine can go), I could have already scooped up maybe 5 targets that I knew (because of my tone alerts and VDI) were in the most common gold range. Meaning, from roughly foil up to just below zinc penny. Sure, there are some gold rings that will read penny or higher but they are far more rare. The vast majority of gold rings are going to read lower than that. Lacking a VDI or tone alerts somebody using that machine might get burned out quick digging real deep for all the pennies laying around, which can be even thicker than iron at some beaches.

Pros and cons to everything, I guess...

 

[Frank in NH]

Like Barry is trying to say it is not for everyone. If you think it is not going to work for you don't buy one! But for me i can think of lots of places to use it.

 

[Critterhunter]

Just want to make sure people aren't mesmerized by the depth claims and aren't fully aware of it's lackings and what they are getting into. Doing my part to really emphasize and sharply point that out so that what it can't do is getting as much coverage in the forums as what it can do, so potential buyers are fully aware who are trying to inform themselves. That's a lot of money to spend without fully considering all the pros and cons about a machine, and fully running those scenarios through your mind and weigh the pros and cons of things...Which every machine has...Pros and Cons.

I don't want to see somebody wake up from how drunk they were over the depth claims and have a killer hangover from all the things they didn't fully consider that it can't do. I know, I've made that same mistake myself many times in my life when buying certain things. Hopefully with age and experience I've learned enough to not get carried away with shiney new objects and can put the brakes on. That's hard to do when you're in love with something new, as people's brains will rationalize whatever short comings something has in order that they can just go ahead and get the thrill of buying it.

Watching videos of good targets being dug at seemingly incredible depths is one thing, but what you aren't seeing is somebody digging that deep on land for a pull tab or piece of can slaw or say their millionith zinc penny on the beach because the discrimination can't be set that high and there are no tone alerts or VDI to ID it with. Or the frustration of people having to widen holes to go deeper (which gets rather ugly and should never be done on public land) because they have no idea how deep the target is without modulated audio. I'd rather see the informed consumer see videos about all these issues as well, because it's the true nature of what you are getting into...But of course covering those realities in depth on video so people are fully aware of them wouldn't be the best thing for sales. For some that won't be an issue, but for others they'll quickly sell a machine like that because they never played those situations over in their head in terms of the kind of hunting they intend to do with it.

Look at all the people who went crazy over that new very expensive detector from over seas (name withheld because I don't want to start a war about it). Yea, it was very light and had some unique features about it, but it turns out it isn't getting all that great of depth and the VDI is rather unreliable. I do hear it's a fast machine in iron, though...But then again there are plenty of very fast machines out there for one third the price that are also great in iron. As a result of people not weighing the pros and cons of that machine from other actual users, and not just soaking up what the manufacturer had to say about it, there are now plenty of those on the used market being sold off. It is an excellent machine for some, but others found out it was a big and costly mistake when it didn't live up to the expectations or intentions they had for it in their specific situations.

Fast recovery is overrated anyway. Where unmasking ability really counts is in just how sharp the detection field is. So long as you sweep a slow machine slow it will unmask just as good as a fast machine, and even better if you are using a coil with a super sharp detection field such as a 12x10 SEF.

Look, it sounds like it could be an awesome machine (if the depth claims hold up in various types of ground)...But for one or two VERY specific types of hunting where it will excel. It may very well be the best machine on the planet for those very specific situations, but lacking certain features it'll also probably be the worst machine on the planet for virtually all other forms of detecting.

 

[Critterhunter]

Here's a prime example of what I mean. It appears this guy wasn't aware that his Blisstool's discrimination couldn't be raised high enough to knock out anything above a foil gum wrapper, let alone other stuff. He also appears to be confused as to why he is only getting average depth from his Blisstool like he would get from any other machine, and not the depths being shown in the videos.

His machine is also falsing even with just the simple act of coil movement, and he seems concerned that perhaps he has a defective machine because of this, the lack of depth, and the inability to raise discrimination. Obviously there are some serious concerns for potential buyers to sort out here. Was his machine defective, or did it not live up to the claims in his soil?

People, all I'm saying is FULLY investigate ANY machine, especially one making depth claims such as this, before buying it. I see Kellyco has another new machine that is also claiming incredible depths of like 33" on a quarter. It is also a product from over seas too, where getting service or a refund might be a very big problem if it doesn't live up to what you expected or has a break down.

Maybe both these machines do live up to their claims. I just know I'd want to see MUCH more evidence from actual users before spending that kind of money.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?18,1673202,1673481#msg-1673481

 

[oldcoins]

Yes that question did remain without an answer.Apparently the At Pro from Garrett had at one time the same kind of probleme.Little tap on the machine with the hand will make it ringing! Could it be what you call poor shielding of the wires and cables?
It is also mention on the owner manual of the Blisstool on paragraph 13 that it is very sensitive et has to be used outside of any urban area and electrical or telephone interferences.
To test a machine that is not yet widely used in USA against others that have a proven track is in my opinion totally useless.The test will come the hardway.By individuals owners that will use it having pay for it and realise if it is for them or not.
Plenty to read on the net.Just Google it.Blisstool metal detectors reviews!May be you will like it ,may be you wont.

 

[Barry NY]

Hey oldcoins (i.e. Pierre)...

You have 20 posts total on FindMall - only 20 posts in 2 years of being registered.

EVERY post you have made is on a thread/subject that has been started by ME...or is in response to a comment by ME...

Most if not all of your comments are typically derogatory or extremely negative/acerbic or combative...

Are you a stalker? Do you have a bug up your butt?

On your Nov 29, 2009 post you LIED to the FindMall community by:

1. stating you were from "upstate NY" - you actually live on Long Island...
2. stating you "recently got your E-Trac" - you don't own any E-Trac...
3. saying your name was "Nick" - I didn't think Nick was a Nickname for Pierre...

So you apparently are a liar with an agenda - do us all a favor and get over it already. Any comments you make should be taken as sour grapes...

Thanks,

Barry who lives on Long Island, who actually owns an E-Trac and a Deus and a Blisstool...

 

[skookum]

High,

Too bad this thread is getting personal, with punches way below the belt line.
I like findmall, because I can extract a lot of info from it - but some people do have to learn how to debate in a proper fashion.
Just

 

[Shenandoah Digger]

I don't have any problem with the Blisstool not being able to disc anything out above foil. It's not made for hunting old house sites. I do know that the GPX machines will disc in bad ground to about 8 inches, and below that everything sounds good. So a lot of trash has been dug deep with them, and tons of great finds too. So if the Bliss digs deep in mineralized fields, and will disc out iron pretty deep, I'd be satisfied with that. But I'm never the first to buy a new machine anymore. I've done that in the past and gotten stung by all the hype. So I'll wait a little bit to see how others fare with the Bliss, and if it's anywhere as good as advertised, I'll probably buy one. I believe it has great potential as a relic hunter, which is all I do.

 

[Barry NY]

Hi Skookum - it's getting so ridiculous with this Guy that I had to get aggressive - I don't usually do personal stuff like that. But sometimes people need to be exposed for exactly what they really are...

Hi Shenandoah Digger - you are spot on with your perspective. Also, your approach is sound. The first units are coming here in batches over the next few weeks. We'll see how everyone gets on with them fairly shortly. Following the very simple set-up and use instructions - I'm confident you will get similar results to what you have been seeing. What we do know is that all the "independent" parties that have participated in the few live demos we performed have come away extremely pleased and not disappointed at all.

 

[oldcoins]

Yes that question did remain without an answer.Apparently the At Pro from Garrett had at one time the same kind of probleme.Little tap on the machine with the hand will make it ringing! Could it be what you call poor shielding of the wires and cables?
It is also mention on the owner manual of the Blisstool on paragraph 13 that it is very sensitive et has to be used outside of any urban area and electrical or telephone interferences.
To test a machine that is not yet widely used in USA against others that have a proven track is in my opinion totally useless.The test will come the hardway.By individuals owners that will use it having pay for it and realise if it is for them or not.
Plenty to read on the net.Just Google it.Blisstool metal detectors reviews!May be you will like it ,may be you wont.

Just answered post by Critterhunter and gave my opinion as a freedom of speech and as many times as I feel like it.Will not bother to answer you.However I beleive as every forum, insulting openly an other member is again the rules of the forum,and hoppefully be noticed by a moderator.

 

[Barry NY]

Whatever Pierre - are you insulted or hiding from the truth? Let's end this here and now. And I apologize to the forum and the moderators.

How about you just explain to everyone here on FindMall the post you made from 2009 (http://www.findmall.com/read.php?63,1099144,1100253) and then maybe you can stop following me around the forums like a poodle? If everyone looks at ALL of your posts they can see your pattern for themselves. Here is the one from 2009:

Re: Old NY farm continues to deliver...silver and copper
Posted by: oldcoins [ Send a Message ]
Date: November 29, 2009 06:14PM Registered: 2 years ago
Posts: 21

I am from upstate New-york and got recently my etrack.I am amazed by your results and your adventures.I have found only trash and nails .How do you do it? I need you advise and know how Barry.Thanks for your help.Nick

 

[oldcoins]

Just laughing
If I never told you who I was you will have never found out
But it was a good joke on you

 

[Critterhunter]

Your time would better be served by talking about the machine and not other forum members who are simply raising some skeptical questions about it. After all, isnt the whole point of this thread to discuss that machine? Besides, I've been much more skeptical in my posts than he has anyway.

So back to the machine...What ever happened with that guy linked to who could only get 8 or 9" or so of depth out of his Blisstool, even though he even tried setting it up the exact same way as shown in the video? And what about his remark that the machine falses constantly even with simple coil movement? I'm sure it would do much to shed light on the abilities and stability of the unit if these questions were answered.

 

[Barry NY]

Hi - yep CritterHunter we can get back to the machine.

We don't know who that guy bought his machine from. It was not from the USA distributor. I gave him the contact info for the manufacturer.
I'll bet that based on his comments - he did not know how to use the machine. Depending on the ground conditions you either go manual GB or auto GB plus there are Gain and Threshold adjustments. Although actually quite simple to set-up, some people seem to have problems with a machine that needs to be GB or tweaked.
I've seen many, many comments from people on many forums that can't get an E-Trac to work...or a Whites V3i to work...maybe he just can't get it together??

All I can offer to everyone is that I have personally used the machine and we have done many demos where others who are disinterested parties have used the machine.
Everyone has left pleased. If dealers were present they ordered units. If consumers were present they ordered units.
Set correctly for the ground conditions the machine performs flawlessly and quietly and locks on very hard to non-ferrous targets at great depth.

Again - based on the features this machine is NOT for the casual schoolyard or park user. They will be much more satisfied with something that offers a target ID or multi tone.
This machine is for serious coin/relic/beach hunters that have locations which are either easy for you to dig all the non-ferrous or all the surface finds (up to 8"-10") have been removed by their other unit and you need to get to the next level in depth. Also the machine performs extremely well in highly mineralized conditions due to the finesse with which you can tune all the controls. The Blisstool truly brings hunted out or difficult ground sites alive.

I guess we'll just have to hear what those first customers have to say for themselves.

 

[Shenandoah Digger]

Well from what I've seen of the machine it's not just the same ole' same ole'. I think some of the adjustments are pretty innovative in the way that they all have an effect on another adjustment. While it may appear to be complicated, and I doubt that it is, I'm sure these same adjustments help it defeat some soil conditions. I'd be the last to knock the machine before I tried it, and if it works for me as in the videos, I'm sure I'd be more than satisfied with it. Since I didn't build it and have no dog in the fight, I can't knock it or praise it before I try it.