Original Racer coming...eventually, so a little help needed...

[REVIER]

I recently hit the jackpot and was offered an opportunity to try out an original Racer and see what it can do in my oh so difficult and frustratingly tough mineralized and heavy iron infested devil dirt.
This came from Tom Dankowski himself..he has a few really new and a couple of bit older foreign jobbies that he has permission from Dilec to share among the brethren looking for more data on how they work in soil conditions from mild to insane...I come in at the insane end of the scale.
I am totally anal about learning new detectors in an effort to try to get the most out of them possible and then maybe push them beyond the norm if it can be done...I have a reputation for doing that and a pretty successful track record of succeeding with a few different models and the patience to do this process justice.
The problem is my area of the state is in the grasp of one of the worst droughts we have ever seen so doing any digging right now in normal sites is pretty impossible.
Still, the opportunity presents itself so time to start the pre-learning process so I can hit the ground running when conditions finally improve.
I am looking for your kind help in this, I will be scouring this forum and the net for any helpful tips and insights you might have, Tom seems to think the Racer 1 might be better in my soil than the Racer 2 so I will bow to his expertise.
I realize the Racer 2 has more features and options but I am a huge experimenter and tweaker...presets are not really my thing and just give me some good basic abilities and useful features and settings I can mess with and I will usually find my way pretty well...eventually.
I sometimes think way outside the box on my setting theories and target behavior and it has worked surprisingly well for me in the past...shockingly well, actually.

I promise to eventually put down my findings and opinions in many way too long fact filled informational posts in an effort to help the other owners find that next great thing because, well, that is just what I do.

Thanks for your help and consideration!



-----------------



NASA-Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> No, I have never offered the Racer to anyone
> to test. You are the first........ and for very
> specific reasons. Your intense attention-to-detail
> scientific dissection (and subsequent
> thorough/comprehensive analysis)...... has
> prompted me to search/analyze my entire
> inventory..... and hand-pick this one for you to
> try. I could just as easily send you a Racer-2;
> yet, my gut says the Racer-1 targets you better
> (((and it's deeper))). Your learning-curve will be
> minimal...... as the Racer is akin to the
> T2/F70/F75 platform.
> There is no time-pressure for you to test this
> unit. If you must wait for the ground to soften;
> no problems.
> I do recommend reading the Racer Field Test
> thread.
>
> The CF77 is still making the rounds throughout the
> Country.
>
> ((( Oops...... let me go check your PM ))).


Fantastic!
I will start the learning process immediately and start studying up.
Around here all the lawns are dying, a local lake that is a main water source is down to 30% of normal levels and still falling, really heavy fines if you are caught watering your lawn at the wrong time on the wrong day...things are pretty desperate.
No rain in sight for at least the next two weeks, we are having record high temps which is only compounding the problem.
The whole state has drought warnings but my area and a few other counties around me have the most extreme problems...just call me Mr. Lucky.
What a time to be offered this opportunity.

I will keep you informed and let you know when things get better so I can give it a fair appraisal.
Promise to do a full report on my insights and observations...that is one thing I love to do in this hobby about as much as finding the good stuff.

 

[bugg]

You will probably love the way it handles bad dirt and the blendy audio. Take it into the test garden and play with it first. After a while your F model might become a dust collector!

 

[Monte]

I'll also bet that once you have experienced the Racer afield, and if you haven't yet had your hands on comparable performance detectors like the Nokta FORS CoRe, or more recent models like the Makro Racer 2 and FORS Relic, you will be encouraged to give them a try afield, also.

I recently hit the jackpot and was offered an opportunity to try out an original Racer and see what it can do in my oh so difficult and frustratingly tough mineralized and heavy iron infested devil dirt. This came from Tom Dankowski himself..he has a few really new and a couple of bit older foreign jobbies that he has permission from Dilec to share among the brethren looking for more data on how they work in soil conditions from mild to insane...I come in at the insane end of the scale.

For those of us who don't know your ground environment, let us know which state you live in, the general area, and how you determine the level of nastiness of your ground around there?

Also, what detector(s) do you generally use? If they have a Ground Balance/Ground Phase read-out, what is it for most of your hunt areas? If it has an MMI type read-out to hint for Fe3O4 content to reflect challenges from iron mineral contamination, what does that read? Also, for newer readers who are not familiar with the Racer, and not familiar with different hunting styles or techniques, is most of your detecting in the realm of Coin & Jewelry Hunting, Relic Hunting, or a blend of the two?

Example: I live in the far eastern side of Oregon, and where I search around my area, and the various places I most frequ4ntly travel to detect, the Ground Balance read-out on a Racer 2, CoRe, and Relic, and models I recently used like the MXT All-Pro, F75, T2 and Omega 8000 [size=small](just to use an assortment of several brands and models)[/size] reads from about '74' in the milder areas to '82' to '86' in the more mineralized areas. As far as iron content, the MMI or Magnetic Mineral Indication is also pretty high. On a model with a bar graph, it is often '3' or '4' bars.

I seldom get into 'mild' conditions unless I hunt a few playgrounds with very decent soil brought in, or travel to some states like Oklahoma, Texas, and Mid-West regions =, but I haven't worked any f those for maybe a decade. Otherwise I seldom hunt pleasant ground unless I just happen to get lucky. Most of the year I can be found at out-of-the-way locations, Relic Hunting sites with a lot of dense brush that can restrict movement, working in rocky sites and dealing with building rubble, rock based or rock lines cellar holes, and taking on challenging debris that includes a lot of iron nails, rusty tin and other annoyance.

My next favorite places where I might more easily be found would be in any renovation work like torn-up sidewalks, streets, or parks, school or vacant lot dirt areas. Still 'Relic Hunting' but in an urban environment. Last, you might run into me during late fall thru winter when I can get out for some everyday type Coin Hunting at as many average locations as you can imagine, such as parks, schools, vacant lots, parking strips, yards [size=small](with permission)[/size] and other typical urban hiding spots for coins, tokens, jewelry, and the what-not we might find.

I am totally anal about learning new detectors in an effort to try to get the most out of them possible and then maybe push them beyond the norm if it can be done...I have a reputation for doing that and a pretty successful track record of succeeding with a few different models and the patience to do this process justice.

We seem to share the same desire to want to learn all we can to gain maximum knowledge about, and use of, any detector we have in-hand. To learn it and know it beyond the 'norm' as you say.

The standard Racer coil is a 7X11 DD and it works fine, but I do hope they send the Racer along to you with at least, and most importantly, the small 4.[size=small]7[/size]X5.[size=small]2[/size] 'OOR' DD coil. That's what I use the most on a Racer or CoRe, and even sometimes work it on my Racer 2 instead of the also smaller-size 5½" round shaped DD coil. I use smaller coils the most because I hunt trashier sites more and can better hunt in amongst the dense litter I have to deal with. Surprising depth from those smaller coils,, and great all-purpose performance.

The problem is my area of the state is in the grasp of one of the worst droughts we have ever seen so doing any digging right now in normal sites is pretty impossible. Still, the opportunity presents itself so time to start the pre-learning process so I can hit the ground running when conditions finally improve.

We have been getting some above normal batches of showers through our region for the part couple of weeks, but most of us welcome it because we have also had a few drought years and the farmers and ranchers, especially, appreciate our recent wetness. Many locations have very tough ground to deal with for target retrieval, but when there's a will there's a way ... or so they say. They just forgot to insert the words 'difficult and challenging' before the word way.

I am looking for your kind help in this, I will be scouring this forum and the net for any helpful tips and insights you might have, Tom seems to think the Racer 1 might be better in my soil than the Racer 2 so I will bow to his expertise.

You will find quite a few people on the Makro Detectors Forum who own and use one or more Racer 'series' models who will gladly help. Cal-Cobra, Oregon Gregg, Tom S., and the list goes on, and I'll include myself in that mix as I love the detectors and performance they provide me from the Makro/Nokta Detector company.

I guess Monte and Tom D. differ a little on their racer model opinions. The original Racer is a terrific detectors, and probably the best detector in that MSRP price range on the market today. I had already taken on the Nokta FORS CoRe as my #1 detector in my arsenal when the Racer got in my hands in less than a month and, together, they bumped all my other TID/Tone ID models out of my detector arsenal as fast as I could sell or trade them.

That said, for me and the types of hunting I do and the sites and iron nail abundance I typically encounter, the Racer 2 has a pronounced 'edge' over the Racer. Both operate at 14 kHz, and they share all the same search coils, but I switched to the Racer 2 in my Primary-Use detector battery that always travels with me. It has some changes and features that moved it up the line in my arsenal. That said, I know several people who own and use an original Racer, and they are very satisfied with it because it does what THEY want for THEIR hunting needs.

I realize the Racer 2 has more features and options but I am a huge experimenter and tweaker...presets are not really my thing and just give me some good basic abilities and useful features and settings I can mess with and I will usually find my way pretty well...eventually.

Yes, the Racer 2 does have a few new features and adjustments you could tinker with, but the Racer still offers you a lot of control over how it works and how well it can be adjusted to suit different styles of hunting. I don't doubt that you will learn what it offers, and enjoy what it does afield.

I sometimes think way outside the box on my setting theories and target behavior and it has worked surprisingly well for me in the past...shockingly well, actually.

And it will when you get out and Racer-around your favorite hunting sites.

I promise to eventually put down my findings and opinions in many way too long fact filled informational posts in an effort to help the other owners find that next great thing because, well, that is just what I do.

That sounds good and I am sure we will all look forward to what you think of it and how it compares with what you use and/or what you like to see when out detecting.

Thanks for your help and consideration! I will keep you informed and let you know when things get better so I can give it a fair appraisal.
Promise to do a full report on my insights and observations...that is one thing I love to do in this hobby about as much as finding the good stuff.

Finding stuff is always an important element in this great sport, and I think it best to just take the Racer out-of a box, assemble it, then read the User Manual [size=small](which you could do from Online while awaiting the Racer's arrival)[/size] and learn it as you go without any outside suggestions.

There, now that I gave you that bit of advice I will go ahead and mess with your thinking by sharing some of my settings and why I do what I do. Here we go, and I'll even try to be brief about it.

1st.. I like to start with a higher Gain/Sensitivity setting most of the time, then reduce it, if necessary, if I am dealing with EMI issues or, on occasion, I feel it beneficial due to the density of trash targets. I have my 3-Tone Discriminate mode set at '99' to start, and my 2-Tone mode at '85' or '90' to start out, but that's also because I usually have a smaller-size coil mounted. With a larger-size/standard coil it might be at those higher settings, but I adjust them downward a little to gain stability.

2nd.. I prefer to hunt with a very low Discriminate setting, and on the original Racer that setting is '10' for most locations. I usually listen to most iron audio from just below iron nail rejection on up. The most Discrimination I ever use is just barely enough to reject common iron nails laying on the ground.

3rd.. I use the 3-Tone Discriminate mode for most trashy Coin Hunting sites, and when Relic Hunting in very dense pockets with rusty tin and other miscellaneous trash. For open-area search where there are hardly any metal targets, or when the primary junk is iron nails, then I prefer the 2-Tone Discriminate mode.

4th.. I mainly hunt with a smaller-size coil, and I also use a slower methodical sweep speed and ample overlapping for more effective site coverage. Do not get carried away using a too-fast sweep speed.

There, that was brief for me.

Best of success learning and using the Racer when it arrives.

Monte

 

[REVIER]

Well thanks Monte....I will endeavor to ingest all this great info.
A few answers to a couple questions.

I search for everything, but not many relics in my normal public sites so older coins and jewelry are my prime targets.

Comparing my soil to known good and mild soil in Kansas so you can see the difference here are some numbers from my F70 readings to compare...

In that nice, black loamy type soil my ground phase numbers generally ranged from about 42-45 up to maybe 55 at a few sites.
My dirt bar readings, 3 levels that measure the amount of minerals would usually show no bars at most sites but once in awhile I might see one.

Here in Birmingham in the city proper the ground phase numbers are always at least 65 with them going higher into the low 70's a lot but I have even seen them at the high 70's into the low 80's at a few places.
The dirt bars rarely go below two bars, three bars maxed out is common.

There are areas where with some actual black dirt too, in some of the more woodsy sites and even small stretches in my public sites but the ground phase numbers still rarely drop lower than the mid 60's even in that black stuff and the dirt bars always show at least one to two.
It is a little easier to get a bit deeper in the black stuff with more stable and normal behavior but not a lot deeper...that black dirt is still nothing like the dirt in Kansas where I could get up to a foot or more in depth easily and consistantly, but even there most of my deeper targets still averaged 6-8" in depth, but not all.

Most hunters I know here rarely report digging much past the 5-6" area with many machines in the bad stuff, even top machines like E Tracs, Whites units, Garretts, that includes some that only hunt private homes, virgin sites with better black dirt.
I know there is more in the 6-8" or maybe deeper because with hard work I have managed to get there and found great targets.
I have come to the conclusion that even though most around here say our depth level is curtailed because of the rough soil this is not really true.
The truth is we can get down there but past 5" or so the soil causes the signals to get bouncy, skewed, pretty much unrecognizable as actual targets we would want to dig so over the decades nobody did.
My job was to figure out a new language, some obscure but still repeatable behavior that can tell me when I was swinging over something good deep and I managed to do that.
The F70 up averages all targets around iron, here it causes all targets at 5-6" or more depth levels into extremely high unnatural numbers and that ability is a big part of how I have been able to be successful here deeper.
Even nickels that are deep soar into silver dollar range here, thank goodness, I have found many plus other great old coins in sites that have been hunted by others for decades because I figured this stuff out and use that up averaging abilities to my advantage.
There is a whole layer of great deeper targets here, ripe for the plucking for those that can figure out how to read those obscure almost unrecognizable signals.
I don't know if other detectors are able to do this, I don't know how deep the Racer will go here naturally or if there will be another language and set of indicators and behavior I will have to learn to get deep but I know my F70 did it so I have hope.

The history if this area is a clue and reason for all our difficulty.
All the elements needed to make iron and steel exist naturally in our soil.
Coal mining was big here in the early to mid 1800's but the main industry that began here in the later 1800's and was the backbone and spured the growth of this city were the iron and steel plants that sprouted up all over.
The nickname of Birmingham is supposedly the Magic City now, originally it was known as The Steel City long ago.
Supposedly for some reason slag and other cast off iron was taken away from these plant sites and disposed of wherever they could for a long time, it somehow got into the fill dirt that was used in new neighborhoods, commercial properties and distributed just about everywhere else as the city built up along with the existing iron that was already infused into it.
In several places you can run a magnet through the soil, even the black stuff, and come up with lots or tiny nodules of iron sticking to it.
Then there is the regular iron I deal with in my public sites.
Some were original sites of old dumps with huge pieces of garbage like car parts laying not too deep in the dirt.
One fella I talked to once that had a home near a local park was digging up in front of his home to plant some bushes and hit something hard...it was the entire bumper of an old car.
Many other public parks were sites of old neighborhoods that were knocked down years ago.
The amount of nails, screws, bits of wire, pieces of old broken iron pipes and everthing else you find troubling us in old home sites is here too.
Even out of the city in the suburbs the soil and mineral problems persist.
I know a site that us a small public park now but had a school built on it in the early 1800's, burned down at least once and was rebuilt and still used up to the 60's.
The headmaster of the school in the civil war was an officer in the confederate army and he had troops camped out around this site during the war.
This is a dream site and it is 30-40 miles away from my city but still has severe problems.
I have been here a few times along with friends and neither we or anyone else I ever heard of that hunted there ever came away with anything but trash and modern clad.
There has to be more there but it is too deep to find easily, or at least I never could figure it out in the past.
Now with my F70 and new knowledge, or who knows maybe the Racer, it might be possible to find some of that great stuff we suspect is hiding there.

I tell you all this to give you an idea of what we are up against here.
I had plans on buying the only kind of detector I thought could possibly combat this stuff and get deeper down to the good stuff, a PI unit.
I started here then moved to Kansas with better soil and I was heaven.
When we decided to move back here I was horrified so a PI was the only solution I could think of to be as successful and go somewhere close to as deep as I could in Kansas or at least deeper then I could before.
Now I know better, the right VLF machine can work well here and get to deeper regions and deal with all the iron with a little outside the box thinking.
I hope this Racer with whatever mineral and iron combating abilities it might have will work well here also.
Others that have used them here in the south have told me for them it does, now I will see for myself.

Now I got some studying to do!

 

[Monte]

'Thank You' and I, like others, will be watching for your posts when you get it and as you work it in your area.

If you have an particular questions, feel welcome to shoot me an e-mail.

Monte

 

[REVIER]

Will do....learning new detectors AND being mentored by one of the best...
Life is good.

 

[bugg]

than the F70 I had. I hope you find the same.

 

[REVIER]

than the F70 I had. I hope you find the same.

Meet too...first hunt experiences here...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?102,2327200