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Open Call For Detecting Help

Flyguy

New member
Folks... I've been MD'ing for about 2 1/2 years. I've had Whites and right now have a Fisher 70Pro. During this time I've found my share of clad and a few nice CW relics. But what I'm really tired of is picking up bottle/screw caps (especially these that are folded up to about the size of a quarter) and rusty nails. I think I've dug hundreds of both those items. I had a DFX - sold it. "Bottle Cap Reject" is a joke as far as I'm concerned. Here's my question: is there any Tesoro detector (or other brand forthat matter) that will discriminate out these 2 pests? I'd give up a few coins not to have to dig bottle caps and rusty nails. I think the oxide on rusty nails throws the signal into most detectors 'high coin' range. So, anybody, what's the story of Tesoro discrimination with the Tejon or other models using that '180' system they use?
Thanks a bundle,
Frustrated in Alabama
 
Hey bud I've got a tejon that i love,it will disc.out nails but your probably going to have to live with screw caps tesoro's disc.is the best i've seen so far its accurate and works wonders there's no way i would part with mine i've had garrett and right now a minelab,but the tejon has the best disc. of any of the three hopes this helps.hh kd
 
Hey ks digr... that's exactly what I've heard elsewhere. Do you have one of the models that has the ??180 dis? I know the Tejon does but can't remember the other model. Any idea why Tesoro doesn't use that dis. tech. on their higher priced models?
Thanks and HH,
Flyguy
 
I am in a gabby mood today so let me see if'n I can hep ya'll out somewhat when dealing with that pesky iron stuff by repeating some of the stuff I have learned from personal experience and from others (especially Monte) on these forums for lo these many years.

Iron stuff like nails and bottlecaps is there, its always going to be there, and you are not going to find a detector that wont audibly react to some of it. And if you do find a machine that is strongly biased against iron, it will also be biased against some other nice targets that are right down there near or in the iron conductance range.

To defeat iron, you must learn to recognize and then ignore it. That probably has more to do with technique than detector design.

First technique....and really important. Keep going down to a smaller coil untill, if possible, you can read each individual target seperately. If the site is so trashy that you have to go down to a 3 to 4 inch coil, so be it, thats the only way you can accurately poke and feel your way around through all the targets and prevent some of the masking effects of iron and other trash.

Second technique....learn to recognize the sound of iron targets using the ALL METAL mode of your detector. But first you need to be hunting with a small enough coil so that you stand a chance of isolating and reading each target individually. Iron targets read as wide as....or wider...than the width of your coil. More conductive targets read less than the width of your coil. With practice you can learn the sound of iron. Your DFX also had a "smeargraph" thingy that showed you a pichur of that long sound by standing up a long row of pips on its graph. You dont need the pips if you learn the sound.

Third technique.....BURN the iffy targets......learn to recognize the sound of iron targets while using the DISCRIMINATION mode. Most iron targets have a sort of "iffy" or "ratty" sound to them, not that nice round sound of a better type target. Roughly pinpoint the target then make a short fast pass over the center of the target with your coil. Thats called BURNING the target. It is most effective if your coil is small enough to isolate the target and your coil sweep is short and fast over only that target. If the sound of the target gets rattier or disappears completely....its iron. If the sound of the target improves in both sound quality and volume...its not iron. It only takes a second and a twitch of the wrist to "burn" a target. If in further doubt, go to the second technique as above, and cross check the targets "width" using the all metal mode.

Fourth technique...dont agonize over the damned iron and learn to cull your targets. You cant stand in one spot waving your coil around and around. If in doubt about the sound of a target, burn it, crosscheck in all metal if necessary, make a decision to dig or not dig and live with the results. Keep moving along with this technique and you can cull the majority of low conductive iron targets while recognizing the better quality low conductive targets.

Choice of Tesoro,s.....I am personally still using an old Golden Sabre II as a coin machine, not a lot of depth but has a beautiful smooth sounding all metal mode with a slow auto-tune that tells me a lot about a targets conductance, size, shape, and depth. I sort of wish I still had the BandidoII Umax that I traded off a few years ago. I think it was the last machine Tesoro made with two all metal modes. It had a selector switch that selected either a true all metal mode without autotuning or a fast autotuned all metal mode. I liked having that choice. There is a tremendous amount of target information in the all metal mode of a detector....providing the detector is designed to have a good smooth all metal mode rather than an overpowered thready winky wonky sounding all metal mode. I haven't used the latest Tesoro units, including the Tejon, but from what I read about them, I kind of think I would prefer my old BIIumax......yep, the one I traded away.:)

 
I don't know why they don't use them on all their units.My disc. circuits are ed-180 there is a ed-120 but I don't know anything about it,the tejon is the only tesoro detector that i've used but i sure do like it don't get me wrong it won't knock out all of the iron,if it does register with signal it's usually just a crackle and some chatter big pieces will still through it off,nothing is perfect I've heard that whites disc.are very good to but have never tried one so i don't know hope this has helped hh kd
 
Super thanks JBird, great help. I've printed out your "essay" and will read it over several times... lots of info to mine there.
HH Flyguy
 
Super thanks, JBird.. great help. I've printed out your 'essay' and will enjoy reading it over several times. There's a lot of good info to mine there!
HH, Flyguy
 
Most of Tesoros detectors are 180 Disc. units now. The Golden is a 120, and I'm not sure about the Silver. I had the little chart that showed what disc. each unit had, but cant find it anymore, so I'm going from memory. I'm sure if I'm wrong, someone will tell me very soon!
:lol:
J.
 
There are a couple of techniques which are absolutely necessary to ID nails with a CZ:

1. Compare signals between all metal and Disc or pinpoint and disc. If iron the target will seem to move.

2. Pinpoint! The CZ will not ID correctly unless you pinpoint very accurately.

3. Get the CZ 5" coil. You will be amazed at its depth.


With a bit of practice you'll never dig a nail again !!


Hope this helps!


John
 
The best machine I ever used for rejecting bottle caps was the Lobo Super Trac. You will learn in time what a pull tab sounds like and you can leave them be. But with a disc setting between 3 and 4 on the LST i can't say as I dug a half a dozen bottle caps in the years I used it.

The Cortes is good also as it will ID bottle caps in the 80s. Nothing else ID's there so it is easy to tell.

Happy Hunting
DOug-Iowa
 
You asked a lot in that one, long paragraph, but some of what you asked wasn't necessarily clear, at least to me. So, if you don't mind, I'll break down your post and offer up what I can. Who knows, it might be of some help?

"Folks... I've been MD'ing for about 2 1/2 years. I've had Whites and right now have a Fisher 70Pro. During this time I've found my share of clad and a few nice CW relics.".... I've only been at this great sport for about 38 years longer, have owned at least a dozen Fisher's, many Garrett's, D-Tex, Goldak, Discovery, Gold Mountain, Pillar, Compass, Teknetics, Bounty Hunter, etc., etc., etc. .. and an unaccountable number of Tesoro's and White's models! I couldn't begin to tell you how much I have found in clad over all these years, or even the total take of US silver coin. From the western ghost towns pioneer and military encampments I have found plenty of artifacts from the Civil War era and a decade or two earlier. One thing I have learned regarding metal detectors, and it is 100% true, is that there just isn't a 'perfect' detector made. Shucks!


"But what I'm really tired of is picking up bottle/screw caps (especially these that are folded up to about the size of a quarter) and rusty nails. I think I've dug hundreds of both those items.".... Here is where I would like a little clarification. Are you referring to a "bottle cap" as those crimped-style "crown tops" we used to have to pry off the bottle, and the "screw caps" being the taller, newer, higher-conductive types found on wine bottle and many other beverages? There are some definite differences between most of the two classes of 'bottle toppers.'


"I had a DFX - sold it."... I have owned three, and sold them all. Might get another to toy with sometime in the future, but I didn't like them.


"Bottle Cap Reject is a joke as far as I'm concerned."... With the DFX I agree. With the XLT I have found it to be a little better. But if you've never used an excellent performing XL Pro, 6000 Pro XL, or earlier produced 5900 Di Pro SL or 6000 Di Pro SL, then you would NOT be so harsh about "bottle cap reject." These models were/are some of the best ever for handling the true, crimped-type bottle caps!


"Here's my question: is there any Tesoro detector (or other brand for that matter) that will discriminate out these 2 pests? I'd give up a few coins not to have to dig bottle caps and rusty nails.".... Modern screw caps can be audibly rejected by increasing the discriminate level. Pesky bottle caps can be ignored by using a good discriminating model and/or the use of some technique to help them 'classify' properly. The earlier TR-Disc. models would cleanly reject bottle caps because they had a true, progressive discrimination circuitry. Modern motion discriminators, however, are challenged by these targets due to their alloy as well as physical design. Due to their man-made shape, they have some conductive properties that test the abilities of any motion discriminator that is set to reject iron, or iron-like, ferromagnetic targets. Technique(s) can help in this case. Nails are another issue.


"I think the oxide on rusty nails throws the signal into most detectors 'high coin' range.".... Again, it is because you're dealing with a ferrous target that has been man-formed into a more positive conductive form. File the iron nail up and put the filings in a small bottle and it is easily rejected. Only change is the shape and density of the metal.


"So, anybody, what's the story of Tesoro discrimination with the Tejon or other models using that '180' system they use?".... Actually, I like the fact that Tesoro went from their earlier, more limited acceptance range of discrimination to the ED-120. The ED stands for Expanded Discrimination, and provided a more functional discriminate circuitry from handling heavily iron trashed sites. The "ED-180" is an even greater range of acceptance than the ED-120, and this is the important thing to remember. The ED-120 and ED-180 ranged circuitries of Tesoro detectors, and other makes and models that provide a broader range of adjustment are NOT, I repeat NOT, giving you more DISCRIMINATION (rejection) but are providing the operator with a greater range of acceptance of lower-conductive target. In addition, the counter to this is that these low-end acceptance settings also produce much less bias toward the ground signal. The result? You can hunt in an 'all metal accept' discriminate mode setting, or in other words, no ferrous/non-ferrous rejection.

Monte
 
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