Omega Question please.

[amberjack]

Hi
just got a new Omega and if I toss a zinc penny for instance on the ground and swing the coil over it it sure doesn't give the right tone or number using the 10" coil so put my 5" on to see if it was the coil but does the same thing it reads like 84 number machine guns and makes a real sick out of tune radio sound. have to lift the coil at least an inch to get the right sound and numbers, had sens in the 70's dropped down still the same turned it up still the same.

tried both coils on the gold bug pro and they work fine with the same scenario.

is this normal or do I have problems ?

others thoughts very much appreciated

AJ

 

[MarkCZ]

If it sounds right and ID's right when you raise the coil a couple of inches away from the target then it sounds okay to me. Sometimes when I'm hunting and they're is fresh droped surface coins on the ground I have to raise the coil a bit to clean up the signal. It seems that in some areas its a little worse to do this than others.

Mark

 

[amberjack]

Thanks Mark

yeah that's what worries me will I miss fresh drops? what does yours do on fresh drops? or should I say is it consistent on coins close to the coil as in fresh drops as long as it's consistent I will get used to it I guess maybe

anyone else got any experience with this?

AJ

 

[MarkCZ]

Well, in almost ALL cases there is at lest grass between the coil and the target (more than an inch of space) and if there isn't then your on pretty bare ground and you can just look down and see them.

Mark

 

[Monte]

1.. The target is too large and you're experiencing Overload.

2.. The target is too close to the search coils and you're experiencing Overload.

3.. There's something wrong with your Omega and it need to be service.

#1 and #2 can easily be checked by testing the target a little farther from the search coil. You can 'air test' this with a coin to see of it is an Overload condition by simply setting the detector up as you normally do and move the sample target past the search coil very close. Almost rubbing against the coil. Did it give the Overload audio?

If so, move the target past the search coil a few more times at about 1" away and then 2" away. Often an Overload can occur if the coil is too close to the target and, usually, it will be eliminated if you reduce the Sensitivity and/or raise the search coil an extra inch or so away from the target. It can happen with the Omega, Gamma, Delta, T2, or any other make or model detector, especially at a higher Sensitivity setting. Search coil size and type might also be a factor in causing an Overload audio.

It's best to not 'scrub' a search coil on the ground anyway due to any intense mineral condition swamping or actually overloading the EMF and warping it, plus if too close you cana get Overload from a metal target and that will give you a bad audio and visual information. Bigger targets means the coil might need to be a little farther away.

If the problem persists and is not caused by Overload as in #1 or #2, get it serviced.

Monte

 

[amberjack]

thanks guys for the replys !

its brand new machine just took it out of the box!

did the same test with every machine I own chuck a coin on the ground and scan it never had this happen with any other machine exact same test with gold bug pro and it gives a proper reading on the coin omega not so, i have to lift the coil. to get the right tone and ID number.

my question is simple does this happen to other omega users ??

why I need to know is I live in Australia and it took 3 months to get the detector from the dealer in Australia from order to delivery ( and I am not joking ) because 1st Texas wont let us buy from the US now I have to send the omega back to this dealer who couldn't even give me a proper invoice with date of purchase 3 months from order to delivery and now I have to send it back to this person to fix the machine, I may never see it again.

so to say I am not happy is the understatement of the year.

I know this does not affect you guys in the US but it sure affects the way 1st Texas is now viewed in Australia, this dealer is giving 1st Texas the biggest black eye and people here won't buy their products. and now I know why !!

am I meant to trust sending my machine back to this 1st Texas Australian dealer to be fixed, after taking 3 months to get the machine and then not even a correct invoice.

I have a very bad taste in my mouth and well it has been the worst purchasing experience of my life and now I have a machine that doesn't work properly I would hope 1st texas can stand up here and do the right thing to get my machine fixed and not via the Australian dealer because I want it back in less than 3 months.

AJ

 

[amberjack]

short video I just did in this case pictures speak louder than any words, I would hope someone from 1st Texas can help me out here as I DO NOT want to deal with the dealer in Australia, way way to painful, so I really need some help!!

just so you know the ID number on that coin is 76-77 all day long not 84 or 85 .

AJ


[video]http://youtu.be/H1zvI9EmaAo[/video]

 

[MarkCZ]

I just air tested my Omega with a US Zinc penny, and right at the coil its NUTS! it chirps, it has a broken response and in general just sounds crappy and it didn't act or sound right until I got about 2" from the coil.
I tested it with the 11" DD coil.
I've never ran a Gold Bug, but with the Omega if I have the coil flat on the ground and letting it float along on the grass and hear something like this I just left the coil a couple of inches off the ground to check the targets ID response.
It also still did it with the sensitivity turned down to just 5 (05).

So, either both of our Omega's are broken, or in this test you cannot compare it to the Gold Bug.
Also, I just got my Omega back from service a couple of weeks ago, it was sent in for another problem but it came back repaired and factory tested.

Mark

 

[amberjack]

thanks for that Mark !

I had nothing to compare it too other than the gold bug so it didn't seem right.

so if you toss a zinc penny on the ground and do what I did you get the same result ?

if anyone else would be as kind as Mark to do the 1 minute test I would be most grateful if it happens with more than 2 machines I will be happy to say its just how it is !!

then get on with the show !

thanks in advance!!

AJ

 

[Dave J.]

The Omega circuit is very different from that of the Gold Bug. The Omega is prone to overload on surface targets, but the tendency is reduced if you slow down to a crawl. In any case you won't miss fresh drops, you'll hear them and if you want more beep before dig, just lift the searchcoil a bit and try again.

 

[amberjack]

thanks Dave

so all is well and some out in the field testing needs to be done it only come out the box yesterday and its super hot here.

so going on previous experience with me and detectors more than half I have kept and now love I hated when I 1st got them but when I got to know them I do care very deeply for them like the gold bug and no ones taking that off me

so thank you kind sir !

I would rather make a fool of myself than live with that nagging voice in the back of my head

that's why I bought the Omega to pick up what the gold bug misses so some interesting testing ahead and from what you have explained here Dave about the Omega I made the right choice.

AJ

 

[Monte]

responses from MarkCZ, an Omega user, and Monte, an Omega user, and finally Dave J., the Omega lead design engineer.

Just like we suggested, and as I described in #2 in my post below, it's likely Overload caused from the target being too close to the search coil. It's not best to 'scrub' a search coil on the ground for many reasons, and if you're skimming on top of maybe 2" tall mowed lawn then all should be fine. When you posted the video I could see right off that the search coil was practically touching the coin, and it gave the crappy response like an overload condition. The slightly raised coil sweep, as I had mentioned, cleaned the signal up and all was just fine.

I was awake about midnight so I watched your video and it looked right to me. Scrubbing the coil too close to the coin = overload response, and lifting the coil just an inch or two and it cleaned everything up, just they way is should. No problem noted with the detector's performance.

I don't know what coin you had on the ground, but I grabbed four US coins to 'air test.' A small clad 10¢, a common 5¢, an old silver 50¢ and a large silver $1. I compared all of these coins on an Omega using 5" DD and 8" Concentric coils, as well as a Tesoro Bandido II µMAX w/7" Concentric coil, a White's Classic ID w/4½" Concentric coil, an MX5 w/6½" Concentric coil and an MXT All-Pro w/9" Concentric coil. Like you I used Sensitivity settings from mid-point to almost maximum. The tiny clad 10¢ coin had to almost touch the bottom of the search coil to give a false response, but all the other four coins produced a false overload audio until they were about ¾" to about 1½" from the coil. The differences were caused by the coin's conductivity, size [size=small](diameter)[/size] and thickness.

So, from your comments and from the video, all you are experiencing is overload and need to keep the search coil about an inch or so from metal targets. From your video I did notice several other things that I hope you correct before using the detector afield.:

One, on both the Gold Bug and Omega, the search coil cables were loosely dangling and moving about during your sweeping motion. It's probably because you just swapped the coils of those two models, but coil cables should be snuggly wrapped up the rods to reduce the floppy behavior that can cause some false signals.

Two, you had the elliptical 10" Concentric mounted on the Gold Bug. I know when I evaluated the initial G2 and a Gold Bug Pro over four years ago I used every search coil I had, to include the round 8" Concentric and elliptical 10" Concentric and got reasonable performance from them, but ..... Note the post made by Dave J four years ago at the head of the forum posts as a 'sticky' where he explains that the Gold Bug Pro and G2 [size=small](the same detector)[/size] were designed for use with only Double-D type coils, and not Concentric coils.

Three, even though the coin was in sight on top of the ground, you did make a Sensitivity level adjustment and a Discrimination level adjustment with both detectors, but you did not Ground Balance either detector. Yes, I know that's an 'air test' on a sighted coin, but all detector settings are important. I have seen coins on top of some pretty nasty ground NOT provide a proper response or read-out when the GB was not properly set.

So, swap the coils back, wrap the cables, adjust the Ground Balance before searching, and go enjoy the Teknetics Omega. The Omega is my personal favorite model in the entire Teknetics line and I have owned them all. It's a decent performing unit and should serve you well.

Monte

 

[amberjack]

Thanks Monte for the good info
yep I was looking for Dave J to join in and I got my answer

I wasn't setting up to go detecting I was just making my point , that even with the 10" concentric the gold bug would pick up the coin which is an Australian $2 coin reads same numbers as your zinc penny but is 92.5 % copper with some other metals on the outer giving it the gold finish aluminium etc.

so no I do tie my cables up and ground balance the machines before I detect that's why I bought the omega so I can balance it.

basically i was showing what I thought was a defect guess I am used to the gold bug great machine for what I use it for so the omega will don the 5" coil and be put to the test if it does what I hope it to do is pick up what the higher feaq gold bug misses as in those $2 coins I will be a happy man. pocket full of those ad's up pretty quick

my back yard is full of iron I have gone over it with a CTX, gold bug 5" coil and omega for an hr with 5" coil as its 1st run had to work hard to find a spot with no iron to balance, CTX found a big old silver coin, gold bug found a $2 coin and the omega a bean sinker, an old screw cap, a very small aluminium washer, and a beaver tail.

so not a fair test as the CTX went 1st and bug 2nd omega last, but from pulling those non iron objects out with the omega 5" out of the iron mess and I didn't dig any iron had disc set at 10 to 15 so I could hear the iron, look even the CTX raps on iron in the back yard so I am quite pleased with its 1st test run.

I am not bashing 1st Texas I had what I thought was a defect in the machine and after waiting 3 months to get it I recon I deserved an answer and so I am happy with the reposes I have been given, not so happy with the dealer here but that's another matter for another day !!

so yes initial testing I am happy now if the someone would turn the sun down a bit I can get out for a real test

so thank you all for taking the time to help me out I do appreciate it very much !!

AJ

 

[MarkCZ]

Monte made another VERY good point about the DD coils used for the Omega testing. On other models I've had using DD coils if I would pass a coil somewhat close to the coil slowly I would get three distinct beeps, one for the center of the detection field and then two more beeps, one off each outside edge of the coil. The center is the actual detection field, the other two are just a by product of the coils double dd design. (See picture below, I'm not saying that the picture shows exactly what the field looks like, but rather how it acted on the others that I tested)

If this is the case then it may mean that the triple beep at the coil confuses the Omega and it needs to have the coil lifted above the targets a little more to eliminate this effect.

LoL! My brother Ron in years past would get a new detector and they were EVERYONE broken right out of the box Now if he gets a new detector he references "Getting Through The Broken Stage" Not one was ever actually broken, so the broken stage is just another way of saying "The Learning Curve"

Mark

 

[MarkCZ]

Well I upgraded my picture of the DD coil field effect.
I'll try latter on to see if I can slow down with the target sweep close to the coil and clean up the response to three beeps, I'm also trying to remember which detector I discovered the close coil three beeps with??

Mark

 

[amberjack]

check out the vid the gold bug does the 3 beeps with the concentric on

I know all my machines have their thing with targets on the surface but they all give the right ID number well except the Tesoro doesn't have a screen
.

as long as its consistent I am fine with it if it does that thing on those coins I wont miss them

so as long as its working proper as Dave has said it is then thunderbirds are go

gee and I thought you were giving me the finger with the 1st drawing

but I am with you on the surface stuff just never had that response before hence my uncertainty

AJ

 

[MarkCZ]

Lets check out what firmware version yours is.
Press in and hold the pinpoint down and power it on, a number will appear in the target ID area, like "04" maybe "05" or "06" mine is version "04"

Yea, the first couple of drawings I did were to adult rated to post

I've also had multiple beeps from concentric coils with targets very close to the coil. I had suspected the cause for that with them to be a detection field pattern (or effect) something like below, but the coils I was using were round concentric's. It sounded like there was a dip or a void in the very center of the detection field and the target if it pass through it close enough would cause a drop out in the target response. ????

Mark

 

[amberjack]

its version 6 happy about that after my 3 month wait to get it .

trying to find a NEL sharp 5" to put on the omega see if that can pick out any goodies but all this US we cant sell to Australia stuff is getting very boring , guess I could buy it from Ukraine but the way it is over there it worries me a bit.

only my 2nd concentric coil all my others are DD just got used to them I guess for me they work better in the junk.

it is strange the surface targets behaviour with different coils and machines I sure am no tech guy as we have worked out but its interesting how they respond and they are all different but the omega seemed very different that's why it worried me.

guess like you drew there could be a blank spot close to the coil its interesting how the field works and I guess a lot is in the guts of the machine how it interprets the message as Dave was saying.

so when I stop learning life will be over so glad I don't know to much :wiggle

thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience

AJ:

 

[supertraq]

Its just the overload signal,its in the manual..Fisher cz's sound sort of like funky phone ringing loud..Its normal as you just raise the coil a little..If i don't see a coin on the surface or move dirt with my foot and still don't see a coin i move on as its a big piece of junk.

 

[supertraq]

oops,2x post