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NY Button Help Please

Found this button at an old site in New York, asterisk/ star marks on the back but nothing on the front. It's as thin as a dime and about the same size as a penny. Any help with the ID or age would be greatly appreciated. 3 photos, thanks for looking.
Glenn
 
hi t-digger. it looks like you found a shankless flat or coin button. they were popular from the 1700's to about 1900. your looks to be in the 1850's era. you sometimes will see remnants of gold or silver gilt on them. backmarks like "extra gilt", "warranted strong" , "extra quality" etc. are common to see. many were made in england. good find, and hh,
 
Thanks for the help and nice replies,

I took another look at it after you guys mentioned a few things and here is what little else I found.

It says BEST QUALITY on the bottom of the button and where the stars/ asterisks are I see there are 5 of these and the shape they form is that of a mouth like on a smiley face.

Don't know if the new info can help ID it better or date it, just curious.

Glenn
 
Hi Glenn, your button will probably date between 1810 and 1820, based on the size and the backmark that you have on yours. The flat button era was over by the late 1830s as the two-piece buttons came into vogue. In fact, Robinson's went into receivership because they were late in producing a cloth-covered two-piecer that, by 1840, had replaced the typical flat button.

The very fact that you have a "quality" backmark tells us quite a bit. Prior to 1796, as found in Bill McGuinn and Bruce Bazelon's book, there were very, very few backmarks stamped onto a button. Why? The shank installation technology just wasn't up to snuff.

If you have a customer whose wrath in growing each time he looks down to find an empty button hole do you think he'll buy a product again if he can identify the maker? In other words, he's missing four out of five buttons. He checks the survivor and it has a backmark of "Bill's Buttons." He will be certain to steer clear of that maker unless it's one last visit with a ballbat..

But in 1796, the British government in an effort to stem some of the poor quality, mandated that button makers had to inform the prospective customer of the ....here's the key ..."quality".... of the button: Treble Gilt, Best Colour, Double Plated, etc. In your case, a ********** quality button.

Notice we don't have bms that say "Super Duper Shank" or "No Yanka Shanka" (<~~ that was a Chinese firm, I believe, :biggrin: ).

But at least the British government was trying to address the problem of poorly made buttons.

As time when on, when shanks got to the point they couldn't be pulled off between a team of oxen and an elephant, you began to see the actual maker's name. Or at least a retailer's name. Why? The quality was high enough to where the product would bring favorable public opinion to the maker.

Anyway, I say all that to point out that even a "Best Orange Colour" tells you a lot (along with OD size) as to when the piece was actually made.

You can pretty readily identify country of origin by the craftsmanship, too. If you have a fairly crude piece, you may be looking at "local" manufacture, ie Richmond, Fredericksburg. (Not to be confused with Confederate "local," but same idea) Whereas the British product is years ahead of anything domestic until you get into the 1830s when the race was about even heading into the two-piece era.

All of this information can be found in Bruce and Bill's outstanding button backmark book. This isn't an advertisement for them, but a recommendation. Armed with that book, you can tell the dates of most 1800s military buttons, and a lot of civilian items as well.

Sorry it's a bit long. But hopefully this helps.

Richard
 
hi relicdigger, thanks for the info we can all use. it will be helpful in the future. i've heard in the old days this type of button was re-used and re-used and were passed down amongst families. so it appears that at least for a while good buttons were hard to obtain. an old friend of mine found a row of 5 different flat buttons evenly spaced in the ground, as though someone had layed their shirt down and forgot about it. all 5 buttons were half inch to 5/8" in diameter, and all were different backmarks. interesting. thanks, and hh,
 
Hi GG! Now that is a super find! You're exactly right in that someone laid an entire garment down but for some reason to which we can only speculate, he/she never returned to get it. Very nice find.

Correct again on the usage of these buttons. We didn't really hit our stride for creating the monster of "keeping up with the Joneses" until after WWII. Prior to that time, no matter if it were bent, dented, scratched or tarnished -- if it still worked, brother you used it!

Other "recent" factors, including FDR's removing us from the gold standard among others, helped to eventually create this mentality that if it's five minutes old, "it's so last century." and so forth.

Well. Don't mean to preach or anything. Fascinating, sociology.

But again, great find! Are they displayed in the same case or box?

Richard
 
Just got back from the long holiday weekend, I hope you all had a great time. Thank you sooooo much for the great replies and especially to you RelicDigger1 for the great info on the button:thumbup: I really appreciate it. The button is my new oldest find!!
Glenn
 
Anytime, Glenn. Glad to help. Most of that information came from Bruce and Bill's book, "Button Backmarks," which lists the years in which a particular business was operating along with their particular backmark (In the latest version, be sure to scan the top of page 60 for my contribution to the work :) ).

But I think David carries this title along with a bunch more great works in his shop, Dixie Metal Detectors. Give him a call about one. I've bought each successive book Bruce and Bill have come out with due to the vast knowledge these guys are sharing.

Good Hunting

Richard
 
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