Nox 600 Hits Nails!

[Dwayne2010]

I am flustered with the Nox 600. I hit a fresh water beach yesterday and nails were hitting high teens to high 20's and everything in between. I was using park 1 FE 3 and the new F2 setting of 3. I ground balanced. It was very disappointing. Any ideas what I am doing wrong? I had my sensitivity at 14.

 

[jmaclen]

Were you using default Park 1 discrimination settings? If so, you cannot get complete visual and audio information about iron based targets on the Nox unless you accept some of the lower iron range numbers manually (0 to -9) and/or add some audible background threshold tone which will null or go silent over discriminated targets like iron in default Park 1. At beaches, my number one goal is to separate iron from non-ferrous targets so I usually hunt with my discrimination set at -6 to +40 (due to hot rocks in my area), lower the iron range volume to 1 and listen for the low iron tones. Iron based targets can give audio and numerical responses just about anywhere on the Nox numerical target ID scale due to oxidation, composition and orientation in the ground thanks to the simultaneous multi frequencies. Iron falsing and iron wrap around (giving target ID responses that aren't in the "iron range" designated by the manufacturer) can occur on any detector.

With the new Iron Bias settings, you can set either the old FE or the new F2. They will not operate simultaneously. The F2 setting is a continuation or fine tuning for the old FE setting. So, if I skip over FE when I'm setting up my Nox for the days hunt and go straight to F2 and set it, that will be my Iron Bias setting. If I use the original FE Iron Bias to set up without going to F2, the FE setting I choose will be the setting for the day.

Jeff

 

[sgoss66]

Just to add to what Jeff said, which is all good info, my one answer would be EXPERIENCE. Not sure how much time you have on your EQX, but I can promise you that as you "learn it," (which of course means digging TONS of nails, so that you can gradually train your ears repetitively to learn what a nail sounds like), you will begin to hear the clues in the audio that will let know how to AVOID digging so many nails, DESPITE their attempts to "trick you," by throwing off some VDI numbers in the "good" (non-ferrous) range.

In my opinion, Minelab machines are AUDIO machines -- you have to learn them more "by ear" (i.e. listening to tonal nuance), than "by eye" (watching VDI numbers). Along those lines, my advice for anyone is USE 50 TONES! To me, maximum tonal nuance is best ascertained when taking advantage of the FULL capability of the machine to present maximum audio information, as opposed to "forcing" the audio into a small set of "bins," such as using a "5 tones" setup or whatever. YES, it can be "audio overload" for your brain, at first. But over time, if you give your brain sufficient "reps" of hearing a sound, and then digging the target, and beginning to make associations between tonal nuances heard, and then immediately followed up by a dig to see what the target turns out to be, you will -- over time -- build up that "mental database" of what tones are associated with what targets. You'll get to a point, eventually, where listening to the audio paints a "mental picture" of what the situation is in the ground, under your coil. And the more targets you dig, at first -- good OR bad -- the more you gradually "fill in" the blanks in that "mental picture" that gets created in your mind as your machine sends its audible information to your ears as you sweep the coil. While that "mental picture" is never PERFECT, it gets "better and better" over time, which means your "trash to treasure" ratio gradually improves. But, there is NO SHORT CUT. You have to play the "long game," in my opinion, with Minelab units in particular. You need a TON of data points in that "mental filing system," i.e. what sounds mean what targets.

Hang in there. You WILL learn to dig fewer nails, over time, if you really LISTEN, and give your brain a chance to learn the audio clues...because those clues ARE there.

Steve

 

[jmaclen]

Hi Steve,

For normal coin and jewelry turf hunting I totally agree with you that 50 tones is the way to go as soon as possible. For more extreme situations like prospecting, bed of nails, saltwater beaches or submerged hunting, I like to simplify things and go to 5, 2, or just 1 tone. That's just my subjective opinion of course. I know some prospectors that will use the Nox 800 in one tone prospecting mode and have a 50 tone user profile program based one of the Park or Field modes for a reference. Works for them. For a new Nox user or a total newbie I would keep it simple and maybe go to 2 tones for a bit, low for Iron and high for everything else. I stayed in 5 tones for several months using my 600 in the beginning even though the zinc penny split tone break drove me crazy!!!

Jeff

 

[sgoss66]

Jeff,

Understood, and agree that everyone has to use what makes sense to them, and for their hunting conditions and their targeted items. I can certainly envision some times where something "specialized" in terms of tones/tone breaks makes sense -- for instance, if you are in a "dig it all" site, where all you care about, literally, is the break point between a nail, and a non-ferrous item.

Generally, though, I see running just a couple of tones as akin to me limiting someone who is trying to communicate with me, to only the use of a few specific words, as opposed to allowing them to use a "fuller" vocabulary. I may be able to figure out what someone is trying to say, at times, even if they are limited in the number of words they can use (i.e. "yes-no" types of answers), but I make it much easier on myself when trying to understand the full message, if I permit a fuller range of vocabulary to be used, while the message is being communicated to me (as opposed to just that "yes-no" answer).

But, with that said, my own personal communication style is to be a generally "wordy" person, excessive in my communication, LOL! So, I'm sure my own "biases" enter into play here...

Steve

 

[WaterWalker]

By any chance did you verify the nails were iron? Copper, aluminum, stainless steel will not have the low reading of iron nails. Check a few with a magnet.

 

[Tom Slick]

Maybe try setting the iron bias at 6 or 7 using either FE or F2

 

[Dwayne2010]

They are old nails. Lots of them have so much rust that they crumble. Tom Slick, I have the Nox 600 so 3 is tops setting for iron bias. The irony is, our Canadian Loonie is steel and I can pass the coil over one and get no response. Add in a few inches of wet dirt, and the nails come in like gold lol. I guess, I will have to just keep learning the machine. I took one rusted bent nail out of the ground that had a high reading and put in on dry ground and passed the coil over it and got no response. Very confusing!

 

[#1Leatherneck]

Dwayne, Thanks for the post I was confused for a minute! My White's Spectrum V3i would give information in the ground; however, out of the ground nothing! Old rusty nails, that would break, and crumble. I assumed that it was receiving a signal with the added moisture in the ground?

Leatherneck

 

[trojdor]

They are old nails. Lots of them have so much rust that they crumbleI took one rusted bent nail out of the ground that had a high reading and put in on dry ground and passed the coil over it and got no response. Very confusing!

Dwayne,
The nails and ground you describe sound like perfect candidates for falsing.
Iron falsing is a tricky thing, and is enhanced by modern, sensitive, motion based detectors .... as well as ground conditions.

Now, here's the trick...
If you don't want to be fooled with 'problem child' iron falsing .... with any detector .... you have to be able to hear the actual iron low tones in addition to the false high tone, to 'see through' iron's lies.
On the 600, use the horseshoe (along with the new F2 setting) to hear everything in order to help ID 'problem' iron.

In other words, don't just expect the discrimination to hide all the iron. Iron can/will find a way to false. A lot.
(Iron falsing is very much the old 'wolf in sheep's clothing', in an audio sense.)

The new F2 allows far more of the true low/iron tones through, and will help ID iron falsing with the low tones that are now present .... and are much bigger / more pronounced than the false.
But, you have to be able to hear those low iron tones in order to use them!
(We need to be able to see the actual wolf, not just his fake disguise.)

With a sensitive motion detector, iron falsing (especially in damp ground) is just something we have to expect.
The (counter-intuitive) solution to avoid DIGGING iron under tough conditions, is to make sure we can HEAR iron, so as to help ID those pesky falses and not be constantly fooled by it.

HH,

mike

Edit: Some people get quick (or instant) mental overload from all the iron sounds you can hear with the horseshoe engaged all the time.
(There's a LOT of iron junk in the ground.)
In that case, the solution is to hunt normally, and only engage the horseshoe to help with the final pinpoint / ID process.

 

[Dwayne2010]

Trojdor, thanks for your response. I think that you put it best. I will try the all metal mode as what you said really makes sense to me. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post your responses!

HH
Dwayne

 

[Mark kus]

They are old nails. Lots of them have so much rust that they crumbleI took one rusted bent nail out of the ground that had a high reading and put in on dry ground and passed the coil over it and got no response. Very confusing!

Dwayne,
The nails and ground you describe sound like perfect candidates for falsing.
Iron falsing is a tricky thing, and is enhanced by modern, sensitive, motion based detectors .... as well as ground conditions.

Now, here's the trick...
If you don't want to be fooled with 'problem child' iron falsing .... with any detector .... you have to be able to hear the actual iron low tones in addition to the false high tone, to 'see through' iron's lies.
On the 600, use the horseshoe (along with the new F2 setting) to hear everything in order to help ID 'problem' iron.

In other words, don't just expect the discrimination to hide all the iron. Iron can/will find a way to false. A lot.
(Iron falsing is very much the old 'wolf in sheep's clothing', in an audio sense.)

The new F2 allows far more of the true low/iron tones through, and will help ID iron falsing with the low tones that are now present .... and are much bigger / more pronounced than the false.
But, you have to be able to hear those low iron tones in order to use them!
(We need to be able to see the actual wolf, not just his fake disguise.)

With a sensitive motion detector, iron falsing (especially in damp ground) is just something we have to expect.
The (counter-intuitive) solution to avoid DIGGING iron under tough conditions, is to make sure we can HEAR iron, so as to help ID those pesky falses and not be constantly fooled by it.

HH,

mike

Edit: Some people get quick (or instant) mental overload from all the iron sounds you can hear with the horseshoe engaged all the time.
(There's a LOT of iron junk in the ground.)
In that case, the solution is to hunt normally, and only engage the horseshoe to help with the final pinpoint / ID process.

Yep I agree.
Mark