birdman said:
I use TTF mode on the Etrac and dig all but iron and dig all repeatable signals with the sovereign in discriminate mode set just below foil. I found a lot that I walked over before but I did not get the depth of the Etrac in TTF. The two machines together are an awesome combo.
Great finds and really nice job!
Curious (if I read right) that you said you had discrimination raised to just below foil? Meaning you kept it at zero discrimination then? Because BBS units are so good at ignoring iron and finding non-ferrous targets in that iron with Iron Mask turned ON to sound off better (and also gives a bit more depth than with it turned OFF), that I never raise the discrimination dial at all. With it set at zero foil will start sounding off around 70+ or so in terms of a VDI #, and that's small pieces of foil or so. If the discrimination is raised at all to avoid some foil (don't know if you did or not?) you might miss fringe depth targets that might only at first try to break through as a foil signal, and then will get stronger and climb in VDI and tone when you center over them and do the Sovereign wiggle or fast short sweeps.
With disc at zero, and iron mask ON, the Sovereign will ignore most iron, yet do a better job at sounding off to fringe depth stuff and get a tad more depth, so no need to raise discrimination. Some get confused and think with Iron Mask OFF that means it's ignoring iron better, when in reality with it ON it might sound off to iron more, but it's still very quiet and does a good job of telling you it's iron. I never turn it off for that reason, one reason being my tests show about a half inch more depth with it ON, and also to insure the Sovereign is trying it's hardest to sound off to any non-ferrous stuff mixed in that iron.
Also, which coil on the Elite? Stock 10" Tornado? If the Etrac is using the stock 11" coil then that would perhaps equal more depth. I can say that I hunt with several Etrac owners, and in particular with one of them we've compared super deep, badly masked, on edge, or coins with a combination of all these things. And thus far in about two years of head to head comparisons on undug targets the GT has seen them just as well. That is using the 12x10 coil on my GT though, which most believe on the FBS and BBS units improves both depth, separation, and stability.
He's running very minimal iron rejection and an otherwise open screen, and yet the GT and 12x10, even with all the built in iron rejection on the Sovereign, has seen coins just as well that were so badly masked with iron that they nulled for both of us all the way around them but at one very tight angle of attack. I really didn't think the GT was going to keep up, based on how stellar of a machine the Etrac's reputation is, but yet seeing has me believing in both the GT's potential and that of the 12x10 to hold it's own among the best these days.
Also, in terms of depth, there has been a few times when I have hit on a super deep whisper of a signal and called him over to check it and he couldn't hear it, until he took his machine out of Auto + 3 and raised it the last few clicks to full in manual, and then he could hear the signal. This has only happened a few times, and I don't think any of these targets turned out to be coins, but it does show the GT/12x10 is holding it's own depth wise. I was running full blast manual and my GT was stable thanks to the excellent stability of the 12x10. Being that he was near full sensitivity in Auto +3, and being that he could hear these few targets we've compared over time when he put it in manual and raised it the last few clicks to full, I suspect that they are pretty evenly matched in depth in our somewhat mineralized soil.
No doubt the Etrac is one awesome detector and has some nice features. Some days I miss certain "tweaks" that I could do on my Explorers for the odd situation, and plan to pick up a used SE Pro for those days I'm more in the mood for "digital", but most days I prefer analog-like simple controls for that "feel" between my fingers when adjusting, and also I like the long drawn out audio of the Sovereign when I'm trying to split hairs on target potential when say ring hunting to avoid the sick sounding stuff.
Try picking up the sweep of the Elite just a tad next time you hit a fringe depth target. Do a normal long sweep as if you didn't know the target was there. At least in my soil, often I find a sweep speed approaching what you might call a medium speed for a Whites seems to see a bit deeper than the usual 4 second crawl that is said to give best depth most of the time. Not always the case in my soil, so I try to test a long "looking for my next target" sweep over a deep fringe depth target, and see what the ground matrix is calling for speed wise while sweeping. Some times it wants a crawl, but more often than not it wants what I would call a medium speed for a faster machine.
Whenever I find a fringe depth target at a site I'll play with that long sweep over it to see, and then try to use that speed for the rest of my hunting. Once a target is found though, most agree short fast wiggles or very short sweeps over it, which need to be kept in constant motion, pulls the best look/hardest hit/best ID out of fringe depth stuff. It's wierd but my GT seems to go into some kind of "amped" mode when I do that. I can sometimes hear a click when it goes into it, and then more of a white noise amped response as I wiggle, and then a click out of this seeming "amp" mode when I stop wiggling.
Don't think of the Sovereign as better or worse than other Minelabs, but rather unique in it's own way and a different tool to use. I think of my GT as the best of both worlds- Analog style controls and long detailed analog-like audio of the best of the old analog machines, yet with the digital ground penetrating ability and numerous tone alerts of a Minelab. For those reasons it's a very unique best to me. Also, the Sovereign has super high resolution in the low and mid range of VDI all the way up to copper pennies. In certain situations that can be deadly at avoiding common trash and digging all potential relics, buttons, rings, and odd old coins that read lower on the scale.
PS- About it "not just being a beach machine"...Couldn't agree more. This machine is right up there with the best of them in terms of finding old coins at dead sites, yet throw the control box in a chest mount bag and away you go to do some water hunting. It's a true "do it all" unit in either land or water hunting. One of it's strongest points for people who want a machine to cover both land and water. That's the way I feel about it.
Try this- Next time you are at that site, try flipping to pin point mode and raise volume and sensitivity all the way to full. Most say full sensitivity is possible with PP mode even in the worst of grounds (found that to be true for me too), and many say PP mode set this way will see targets at PI-like depths. I've heard this for several years and having finally tested it myself at a badly mineralized beach, I can say it appears to be true. Look for super deep whispers in PP mode and then flip to disc and wiggle right over them to see if they sound off in any way. If they do then dig. But, some say you can often tell iron and other target traits in PP mode without needing to switch back to disc. In the short time I've been using PP mode in the field I can already often tell iron from a non-ferrous target. Mainly, if it's got a fuzzy or board attach and decline approaching and leaving the target (no clear defined "shape" to it), or it sounds off only one way, then most of the time I'm finding those targets to be iron. I hear there are at least about 10 other "words" that PP will tell you about targets but have only begun to learn this mode. Mainly I'ved used it at the beach to make a "dead" beach come alive with targets (it's like night and day), but plan to use this mode on land more when non-ferrous targets are scarce but I know ultra deep ones still exist. PP mode seems to push VLF technology well beyond in depth.
Final thought- My theory is that all these Minelabs are pretty much maxed out in VLF technology and depth penetrating ability, so to see any real gains in depth or unmasking (seperation), one only need to look to the proper coil for the proper site. Whichever machine is using the best coil to match a site is going to have the edge. And, of course, whoever knows the machine best and tweaks it out to push that little bit more of performance out of it. To me, recovery speed is a non-issue so long as you control your sweep speed or at least work the coil properly. Far more important to me to be using a quality DD coil with a sharp DD line, and thus far the 12x10 has that in spades for me. I can even sweep rather fast over a badly masked coin and still see it in iron, due to how laser like the DD line is to "see one" and not the other when investigating.
Good luck with your Elite. Give her time to show you what she can do, and again don't think of it as anything but yet another high performing Minelab, with a few differences and unique abilities of it's own, just like that is true for the Explorer or Etrac. All outstanding machines in any respect, that's for sure...
I have the 10" tornado coil on the elite and the etrac has a joey coil 8x12( I think is the measurement). Lots of good information for sure! Looking forward to hitting the dirt.