Normal & Black Sand Switch Question On IDX Pro.

[WILL_PENNY]

Does anyone know what the difference is between these two.

 

[Monte]

a poorly named switch, in my opinion, and I have said it since they were first on the scene. I feel they have given the wrong implication to many people who think it has something to do with the Ground Balance handling, such that 'Normal' would suggest normal or average ground, and 'Black Sand' would hint that it was for black sand or highly mineralized ground. Both guesses are completely wrong.

This toggle selector is tied in with the Discriminate mode ONLY. It serves a purpose of expanding the lower portion of the Discriminate mode adjustment range. I would have preferred to have used the words 'Standard' and 'Enhanced' or 'Expanded.' As such, the two stoggle positions provide the following:

'Normal': Consider this to refer to a Discrimination adjustment range that is close to the Standard Discrimination range used on the Classic II or Classic ID. Those two models have only two controls: Sensitivity and Discrimination. When the Discriminate control is set at the minimum position, some iron will be rejected and some will be accepted. It will still accept most common iron nails, but if you increase the Disc. control to about the 9-o'clock to 10-o'clock position, iron nails will be rejected.

If the Classic III, IDX or IDX Pro are working in the 'Normal' or standard adjustment range, their iron nail rejection is similar, as is their minimum Disc. setting.

'Black Sand': This toggle position will 'enhance' the Discrimination ability to accept targets because it 'expands' the level of acceptance of the lower-conductive range down to 'zero' rejection. If the operator selects 'Black Sand' and sets the Discriminate control to ,minimum, there is no iron or non-iron rejection. Instead, these models will then have a 'zero' Disc. setting and accept ALL metal targets, ferrous and non-ferrous.

Also, while the upper-end adjustments will be similar to the Classic II or Classic ID, these three models will now have the 'expanded' lower-end of acceptance which will allow the operator to fine-tune the rejection point, if desired. To reject the same common iron nail, the Discriminate control will have to be adjusted higher, close to the Ring Range Preset.

Personally, when I am hunting a typically iron littered site, nails are the biggest offender and I opt for a 'Normal' toggle position and adjust the Disc. between 9 and 10-o'clock to just barely reject a nail laying on the ground. Otherwise, I might hunt a site where I am dealing with a lot of challenging ground mineral problems, such as pea gravel, small rocks or dirt clods as found in some renovation work or in a plowed field. In those cases, I want to toggle to 'Black Sand' and use only a minimum Disc. setting so that I am hunting in an All Metal Accept silent-search Discriminate mode. That will provide me the best chance to hear an audible response under challenging conditions.

Questions? Shoot me an e-mail to: monte@ahrps.org

Monte

 

[Mr.Bill]

I

 

[Monte]

I'll use your quote, Bill, because nothing could be more correct. ALL of the Classic models are very good, but a Classic III SL or and IDX Pro approach top versatility thanks to the expanded Disc. capability. For those who want to achieve top-end-performance and total versatility with them, they need your Threshold, Ground Balance and Sensitivity Boost modifications.

I

 

[Mr.Bill]

n/t

 

[thebeatmachine]

It's the same as lowering your discrimination knob down a notch. It's complete nonsense dont bother with it.

 

[Tom Slick]

Here we go again. A non-believer that's never actually used a Classic III, or IDX with the Black Sand Switch.

 

[Monte]

It's the same as lowering your discrimination knob down a notch. It's complete nonsense dont bother with it.

This is incorrect is a couple of ways. First, I can assure you that many detector models do NOT have a Discrimination range that adjusts down low into an all metal accept (aka zero rejection) Disc. setting. many of them adjust low, maybe to still be a bit above iron nail rejection, and some adjust lower to respond to iron nails but still reject some iron.

The Classic III SL and Classic IDX and IDX Pro models, when toggled to 'Normal', will accept a lower range of targets than many models out there, but when the toggle is set to 'Black Sand', that lower-end of acceptance is quite enhanced. Not only will it be a zero Disc./all metal accept setting at the minimum Discrimination level, but the expanded range allows fine-tuning lower-conductive targets where iron nails will now reject at a higher Disc. setting. The upper-end rejection is unchanged, but the lower-portion of the Disc. range is definitely broader than many/most detectors on the market.

So, for an avid and knowledgeable detectorist, it is a definite value and enhances the detector's performance for the right applications and is far from 'nonsense.'

Monte

 

[thebeatmachine]

the upper range is changed as well, you can try it with a zinc penny. Its a quack switch that has little value.
they should have added a sat fast/slow instead.

 

[therover]

But based on the fact that running in Black Sand mode, the lower range of the discrimination setting is now expanded into a possible true all metal mode, wouldn't it, in that mode, also be a mode where you can fine tune/smooth out ground effects to enable the unit to run more stable on certain beaches as oppsed to running in the Normal mode ?

If so, I would think that switch is more than just a 'gimmick'

 

[thebeatmachine]

It adds resistance to the discrimination potentiometer so it can be used at a lower range why you would want to do this and find it usefull is beyond me but ask some od the experts who have it all figured out. adding a 600 ohm resistor and a toggle switch to a circuit does not make it into a DFX.



The classic can't be used in or near salt water it will beep on everything.

Note: Some of the experts on this forum advise people to adjust their Whites to the recomended settings.
This is good if you like to detect things at 3"

 

[Monte]

It adds resistance to the discrimination potentiometer so it can be used at a lower range why you would want to do this and find it usefull is beyond me but ask some od the experts who have it all figured out.

It takes but an instant to move a toggle to Black Sand and then adjust the variable Discrimination level to minimum, providing you with an all metal accept setting in the Discriminate mode. For hunting some very mineralized sites, such a setting is very beneficial.

adding a 600 ohm resistor and a toggle switch to a circuit does not make it into a DFX.

And who would want it to? If someone wants to use a DFX, or an MXT or V3i or XL Pro, they just need to get that model. They all can have their own strengths and weaknesses. I like the Classic models for what they can do, taking advantage of the features and performance they offer. Coupled with a little aftermarket modification to add an external GB and Threshold control, they can hold their own against many other models from White's or different brand competitors.

The classic can't be used in or near salt water it will beep on everything.

Well, that depends upon the beach conditions and the settings used. I used to hit the Oregon coast beaches at Seaside and do quite well using a modified Classic III SL and a modified IDX Pro in dry sand, wet sand at minus-tide, and even in a little shallow surf from time to time, those models could perform quite well.

I seldom worked in the surf, but that's just me. I preferred the wet sand at minus tide for some of the best good-target production, and going against guys (locals) with Fisher CZ's and some Tesoro's and an assortment of other makes and models, all were impressed what the modified Classic III SL could do (that's the one I used the most at the beach).

Monte

 

[Monte]

But based on the fact that running in Black Sand mode, the lower range of the discrimination setting is now expanded into a possible true all metal mode, wouldn't it, in that mode, also be a mode where you can fine tune/smooth out ground effects to enable the unit to run more stable on certain beaches as oppsed to running in the Normal mode?

That is correct, and why I valued the versatile performance of the Classic III Plus and then the replacement, the Classic III SL and finally the IDX Pro (same basic circuitry), because they provided me with both an all-metal-accept operation when I wanted it, and much better 'fine-tune' adjustment of the lower Discriminate range using the enhanced Black Sand provision when I needed it.

If so, I would think that switch is more than just a 'gimmick'

Yes, it's definitely NOT a 'gimmick,' to be sure. It's a very functional feature.

Monte

 

[Mr.Bill]

I disagree strongly that one can't use it on a salt beach & water. I'm surrounded by salt water beach's, (Cape Cod, MA.), and that is one of the reasons I started modifying the Classic series to start with. Using a little bit of common sense with it at a salt beach, and you shouldn't have any problems, in most areas. I'm sure one can locate a place where it doesn't do good at, but this can be said for most detectors.

If you don't like the Classic's, don't use one. If you can't figure out how to make it work for you, go get something different.