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Non-Motion Audio Disc Mode - When It's Too Deep for VDI :detecting:

CZconnoisseur

Active member
Had a good Father's Day - hung around the house with the kids and watched a couple movies, and the Honey-Do list was suspended for one whole day I played in the basement for a couple of hours, experimenting with "Squealer Mode" in all the different frequencies and found some important facts about the non-motion or "Squealer" modes:

1. 12kHz in non motion audio disc mode hits all U.S. coins more confidently, especially nickels. When I got it set up I was able to get 14" air test on a dime, and 16" on a nickel. A silver half dollar indicated out to 18" - I know air tests have limited value, but from air testing the "Motion" modes in this particular soil I only lose about 20% depth. the 4kHz program GOODJUJU that's I've been using for a while now will hit a dime at 11", but 9" is the real-world limit on an undisturbed dime.

2. 12kHz in "Squealer Mode" is much more stable than trying to set it up in 4Khz. Maybe this is why I abandoned trying to learn these non-motion modes last year - I wasn't hunting in 12Khz!!!!

3. 18Khz works well in non-motion modes, but the VDI spread is more condensed vs 12kHz. So when you push the coil into the grass to get a ferrous/non-ferrous indication, in 18kHz you don't get the VDI spread and it's harder to tell if what you're going after is iron or otherwise.

4. Identifying iron at depth is much more accurate than I had previously imagined - I called iron on three deep targets, and had my partner confirm with his CTX3030...and we both called iron those three times, and we were correct!

5. You want to try and hunt as silently as possible in these non-motion modes, and this means getting the GB almost perfect. This park has moderate ground for Colorado - a real blessing considering other locations - so at least here you don't have to recalibrate every few seconds....I remember having a hard time last year when I tried using these non motion modes, but I do remember pulling a couple 9" coins that the motion modes couldn't pick up....

6. The higher the conducting target, the more pitch increase you will experience while pressing the coil downwards. Iron DECREASES in pitch while coins will increase. Nickels will KEEP THE SAME PITCH, and Indian cents will slightly increase in pitch...I would imagine a silver quarter or silver dime will give a clear indication, but I have yet to come across one of those...next hunt I'm sure I will!

7. Deep coins will give a smooth audio signal in non-motion modes, much like the motion modes; and with a little time it's very easy to distinguish a small, compact target vs a long nail. 6-8" deep beavertails are more identifiable at depth using non-motion modes beacause of the pitch - this is something I'm very happy to see!

So with all this in mind I met my partner at the park, he recently put a 17" coil on his CTX and we compared a few targets. About the third target I got over a promising signal, and Squealer indicated a steady pitch when I pressed down. Nearby there was another target, which decreased in pitch - dug that out first just confirm it was iron, and it was indeed iron; and now went to dig this likely non-ferrous hit. Mike came over and scanned the "good target", and his CTX indicated a solid "nickel" hit at 8-9". The CTX quite confidently indicated "nickel", and from about 7-8" down out comes an 1887 V nickel!

Filled the hole, and I rescanned in Squealer mode, and got another hit...pressed the coil down and got the SAME indication; a steady tone, and had Mike check it again with the CTX. This time it was indicating "nickel" again, but with a little less confidence than the first hit. At 9" deep I pulled another V nickel in better shape, this one dated 1899! We were onto something here! The Deus isn't able to ID coins past 8" in most cases in motion modes, but with a little tweaking, and more time under my belt in Squealer mode, I think I will be able to call most targets at depth - at the very least I will be able to determine ferrous/low conductor/high conductor before digging, and this is fan-freakin-tastic considering what's come from the park already!

Not two feet away I get another hit in Squealer mode, and then get the pitch to slightly increase while pressing the coil down. I switched to a 12Khz MOTION deep-seeking program to check the target:

12khz (11.9kHz)
TX = 3
Disc = 1
Sens = 90
Iron Volume = 0
Reactivity = 2
Silencer = 0
Notch 00-10, 97-99
Audio Response = 3
Full Tones
GB = TRACKING
Notch Ground = 85-90

This program was able to barely see the target, and switching to 4khz it actually came in slightly better, but still very faint and choppy. Got down to 8" and thought it was going to be iron. The pinpointer finally got a hit in the sidewall - and it was a NAIL! This didn't seem right so I looked in the "dig pile" of dirt and then the pinpointer went crazy - there was a 1905 Indian cent waiting! Surely this nail was partially masking the coin, and had I been hunting in my regular 4Khz program I honestly WOULD NOT have dug the target.

Things got quiet for a little while, and then I hear Mike state "I win tonight!" Walked over to see what he'd found....a fairly detailed 1898 S Barber dime from 8". The CTX made no mistake on that target and he knew it was silver before digging - these targets are getting scarce in this area, but I think hunting with the non-motion audio disc (NOMAD...or Squealer, whatever you want to call it) will help with co-located and deeper targets....can't wait to get back out there!

Shortly after Mike pulled his lovely dime, I got a suspect signal in Squealer mode that increased in pitch....the 12kHz motion mode didn't get SQUAT...and the 4khz motion mode gave a blip every so often - again, this is something I would not dig normally; but the non-motion mode said "Dig it up!" At 7-8" down the pinpointer finally gave an indication, and at at full 9" deep out comes a nice 1886 Indian! This target was the one that confirmed it for me - undetectable in motion modes, but VERY detectable in non-motion modes! I was floored! Given the signal strength in the non-motion modes I would bet that a dime or penny-sized target can be detected at 11-12" maybe more, where the motion modes won't give any sort of signal.

Last coin was a bit of a surprise - I got the same behavior from a target as before...non-motion indicated a low conductor, and it sounded much like those two V nickels dug earlier. At 8" down I saw a coin, and started looking for the Buffalo or V....but then I saw Jefferson. Somehow a 1961 nickel had sunk to the same depths as most of the older coins, but hey - it was a coin!

Next hunt cannot come fast enough! Using the non-motion audio disc mode in conjunction with 12khz and 4khz motion modes is DEADLY, especially on the nickels. Will keep y'all posted
 
I got a deus about a month ago and haven't used the non-motion modes yet. When using the NOMAD mode, are settings from the "main program" carried over, or is the non-motion mode self-contained without any carry-over from other programs? What I mean is, assuming I am using a program like GM Power from the menu and then switch to Non-motion mode, will I be using the same frequency, TX setting, audio response, discrimination, etc. from the GM Power program? What discrimination, if any do you use, and does the discrimination value affect where the tone will change from lower to higher as you lower the coil? This is definitely a mode that I will be exploring.
Thanks.
 
Great hunt, and a great story...with great info...:thumbup:

I love seeing those old coins from the 1800's still coming to light after more than a hundred years in the ground!

mike
 
ndguitarist said:
I got a deus about a month ago and haven't used the non-motion modes yet. When using the NOMAD mode, are settings from the "main program" carried over, or is the non-motion mode self-contained without any carry-over from other programs? What I mean is, assuming I am using a program like GM Power from the menu and then switch to Non-motion mode, will I be using the same frequency, TX setting, audio response, discrimination, etc. from the GM Power program? What discrimination, if any do you use, and does the discrimination value affect where the tone will change from lower to higher as you lower the coil? This is definitely a mode that I will be exploring.
Thanks.

Great questions I'm glad you asked them....

When switching from motion to non-motion, you stay in the same frequency, and same reactivity (I think). I tried Reactivity 2 vs Reactivity 4 while in the 12 kHz non-motion, and it didn't seem to matter on depth (someone with more non-motion experience may chime in....)

Non-motion modes have their own Disc settings, own GB settings (which need to be checked often), and own Sensitivity settings. I think the search frequency is the biggest thing to consider - 12khz is easy to set to the mild ground I've been hunting, conversely; using 4Khz it's a lot more temperamental and much harder to get a silent "threshold". The silent non-motion operating mode tells you that the ground is perfectly balanced, and you'll get the most sensitivity and depth. If you have any 'threshold hum' while searching it will impact your maximum depth and may sound off a little too "hot" on foil or iron.

I can't stand it though...I have to go back today for more! Just waiting for the sun to get a little lower....:detecting:
 
Excellent write up CZ! Of course the more techniques you have at your disposal, the better your chances. Not sure I would have gotten around to playing with non motion mode anytime soon, but you have my curiosity up now !
 
Got my attention. wonder how it would work on deep relics buttons etc on these hunted out sites> I need to read up on those setups.
 
CZconnoisseur said:
I don't have the ability to film at the moment, but here's a good video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iKa4ha-qG0

Glasses broke?

Jim
 
Hi CZconnoisseur.. I have been playing with the non-motion disc and thought I would include.. Through reading and videos, one gentleman stated that he has found that you should always run with a reactivity of 4 in non-motion.

As stated through my testing, and as you stated, you must be "right on" with your GB. Can I ask, when you were at your last spot detecting, where were you number wise with your 'tune'? I ask because at one
spot I was using this and I just could not get my tune above 00, I would think this has to do with ground balancing adjustments. At another spot I was able to achieve a very quiet profile with ground balance and a tune of 14.

I really like this non-motion disc, but there is certainly a 'learning curve' with this. I can see once you get comfortable, it can really pull some goodies out.

This certainly is not for the XP Deus beginner,

By the way, I really enjoy your posts, thank you!

- Brian
 
bspkayaker said:
Hi CZconnoisseur.. I have been playing with the non-motion disc and thought I would include.. Through reading and videos, one gentleman stated that he has found that you should always run with a reactivity of 4 in non-motion.

As stated through my testing, and as you stated, you must be "right on" with your GB. Can I ask, when you were at your last spot detecting, where were you number wise with your 'tune'? I ask because at one
spot I was using this and I just could not get my tune above 00, I would think this has to do with ground balancing adjustments. At another spot I was able to achieve a very quiet profile with ground balance and a tune of 14.

I really like this non-motion disc, but there is certainly a 'learning curve' with this. I can see once you get comfortable, it can really pull some goodies out.

This certainly is not for the XP Deus beginner,

By the way, I really enjoy your posts, thank you!

- Brian

Thank you Brian! I have found that keeping the "tune" between 10 and 15 in most spots. Last night I ran the GB very negative in my yard that usually GBs around 82-84. I ran it down to 65 and 70, and when you lower the coil to the ground it goes totally silent about 18 inches off the ground. I found that depth was severely affected by doing this, so I ran it up to 90 to see if the opposite were true. Having too positive a GB setting will make the machine super noisy...and at the same time the depth is affected...so running GB right on top of the ground reading is crucial to getting the audio disc to work correctly.

Today's hunt I will be planting coins in that soil to calibrate....I hope to do well!
 
CZconnoisseur.. Another question, there are three non-motion modes NMAM (non-motion all metal), NMD (non-motion disc), and NMAD (non-motion audio disc). Which one do you prefer and why?

I read an article where it was stated that the NMAM would be the deepest non-motion setting as there is no filtering (all metal mode). If I have interpreted you correctly you consider "squeeler" as NMAD, am I correct?

I have been wanting to do some testing earlier today, but the dirt is like powder its so dry.

Looking forward to your results today after calibrating at the site.

- Brian
 
UPDATE:

A few days ago Gary suggested for me to leave the "TUNE" function at 00 and instead to change the GB settings, keeping a close eye on the ground index reading. As it changes, you change the GB settings to suit the soil. This is a much faster way to hunt in the non-motion audio disc. I have some deep coins planted in the yard and for what little time I had to play with it (we are moving across town this week) it seemed to be more accurate when identifying the nickel vs silver dime vs Indian cent.

I ran the Sensitivity at 90 and it was fairly stable - these coins are planted 4-5 feet from the side of the house, so there's EMI and iron clutter around where the coins are buried. Walked to another side of the yard where the ground was slightly different, adjusted for the changes in mineralization, and then came BACK to where the coins were planted to see how the indications changed with slightly different GB settings. With a little practice I was starting to see what "too hot" and "too cold" GB settings sounded like vs "neutral".

There's a lot of rain :thumbup: scheduled for this week and weekend, so next time out I'm giving this more streamlined approach to the non-motion hunting modes.

Still have to move a lot of boxes before then :thumbdown:
 
I had a deep target at the weekend, I tried non motion all metal but the ground changed to often, I settled for Gold field and went down 3 feet on a target.
 
I found the cob today very deep almost out of range I wonder if this would help me clean up on the deep stuff? looks like alot of learning to this program.
 
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