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Nokta Fors core in Iron
- Thread starter u2robert
- Start date
There is an often used reference folks use ... "hunting in iron" ... but there isn't a definition of just what that means. Many times I read a post or hear someone in a discussion say something like: "I hunted a site with a lot of iron and my detector handled it well."
What does that tell me? Just about nothing that's useful.
What's missing that would be helpful to me or anyone considering a detector for working a ferrous-challenged site? How about:
[size=x-small]►[/size] What is meant by "Iron?" Nails? If so, were they small boot nails or horseshoe nails or small-to-medium nails like for securing a crate, or larger nails from a structure?
[size=x-small]►[/size] If not just Nails, what other Iron / Ferrous junk was at the site? Railroad spikes, horseshoes, axe heads, smaller iron hardware like hinges, bolts, nuts, screws? Bigger-size iron associated with a railroad or machinery?
[size=x-small]►[/size] Does "Iron" refer to old rusty tin cans, or a scattering of the rusty tin shards of decayed cans?
[size=x-small]►[/size] What does "a lot of" really mean? How abundant was the Iron debris? How far was it spaced apart or how close was it, and over how large an area?
[size=x-small]►[/size] How many desirable finds were made close to offending Iron junk? Were targets found 'close' to Iron, or 'partially masked' by Iron?
[size=x-small]►[/size] What make and model detector was used?
[size=x-small]►[/size] What search coil size and type was used?
[size=x-small]►[/size] What were the settings used? Accepting some or all Iron? Use of Iron Audio Volume? Increase the Discrimination to just barely reject nails, or was it set higher at the Ferrous / Non-Ferrous break point?
[size=x-small]►[/size] Without observing or having a good description, you don't know the search techniques that were used to best handle whatever amount of Iron was present with whatever detector/coil outfit was being used.
I hunted old ghost town sites or homestead or school sites in several Western US states with a Teknetics Omega 8000 back in 2010-2015 and found old Coins, old Trade Tokens, neat small artifacts like Military Buttons and Insignia, Bullets, Cartridge Cases, Sheep Ear Tags or other noteworthy finds, and a lot of that was hunting in some of the more iron contaminated areas. Back then, I mainly used a 5" DD coil but sometimes, if a little more open and less trashy, I used a round 8" Concentric coil. I searched with both 2 Tone and 3 Tone modes, and kept my Discrimination either at about '10' to just hear the iron nails, or at '17'-'18' where most Nails were rejected. In a few cases, when it got very annoying, I bumped the Disc. to a setting of '40' which is the Ferrous/Non-Ferrous break-point.
That described hunting in low, moderate or heavy Iron contamination as well as the detector, settings and coil used, and I fund stuff so I enjoyed some success in my hunts. But unless someone asked me specifically or unless I offered my opinions, it could leave a lot of people thinking the Teknetics Omega was a very good detector for 'Relic Hunting' in a lot of Iron debris. But it wasn't, and it still isn't. Back then, as usual, I owned several detectors I had on-hand for different applications. The Omega 8000 was a very good urban Coin Hunting detector for me, and due to health and mobility limitations, age and such, I needed to use very light weight, well-balanced detectors and the Omega 8K was one of my favorite urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting detectors.
I also had a modified White's Classic ID for those uses, that could handle Relic site needs, and their MXT Pro that was sort of a 'do-it-all' model for coins and relics and whatnot. I always have two or three of my favorite Tesoro models, for general-purpose use. And from 2010 to January of 2015 the Teknetics T2 or T2 'Classic' with the 5" DD coil was my primary-use Relic Hunting detector. It matched or out-performed all other detectors I owned when I wanted to get serious and delve into very densely iron contaminated sites. Very contaminated, with a lot of Iron Nails of various sizes and abundant other iron and non-Iron targets, to include a very dense scattering or rusty tin.
That was in my Den, then over the next few days I took the FORS CoRe and all my other visual Target ID models afield for some side-by-side evaluations. I had a lot of detectors and needed to thin down what I had, and the FORS CoRe was so impressive with that small coil, that by the evening of the 9th I started listing detectors that could go. In the next 4 to 5 months I sold or traded my Tek. T2, a Fisher F75, two F-19s, all but one modified Classic, my MXT Pro was also quick to go. All TID models were gone by June of 2015, with the last two being a White's MX-5 and my Tek. Omega 8000. The only other make or model I had added to my Detector Outfit was a Makro Racer [size=small](the 'original' red-colored Racer)[/size] which could work the iron-based places but, at the time, I used it for my urban Coin Hunting.
I lived in a very small town of 581 people [size=small](2016)[/size] that was roughly 60 miles from any modest size town to the east or west so my Coin Hunting opportunities with abundant parks and schools was very dismal. Almost the entire county was private property in farm land so almost all of my detecting time was spent in Relic Hunting mode, either accessing a few available permissions for old homesteads in the country, or travelling two to ten hours to get to my favorite older sites. Not much available in the original town since it has been underwater of Lake Umatilla since 1963 when the town had to relocate up the draw/canyon to be reestablished.
I moved to this booming bigger town of 1814 people [size=small](2016)[/size] in the fall of 2015 that puts me 35 minutes from a productive ghost town that had required a 5+ hour drive before. Other ghost towns and long abandoned stage stops, and railroad depots and stations are now a much shorter drive, and I have a bit more Coin Hunting opportunity here, and other towns are now 20 miles away and not 60. So this past six months I have added some Coin Hunting models back in my Detector Outfit that are very light weight, to include the Teknetics Omega 8000 and newer Fisher F44. I still have my Tesoro's, a Teknetics T2+ that arrived yesterday, and a few older models around I use in seminars. Maybe a model or two that I haven't assigned a spot for yet.
But I am totally ready for any Nail and other Ferrous contaminated site thanks to the two best, general-purpose, and excellent Relic Hunting detectors I have ever used ... two Nokta FORS CoRe and two Nokta FORS Relic models. Each model has one unit at-the-ready with their smallest size coil, and I use them a good 85%-90% of the time. The 2nd unit of each of these models have their own 5X9½ DD coils mounted and are ready-to-grab and hunt places with a low-to-modest amount of iron debris. I have not found a detector yet that can match the performance these two models provide me, regardless of who manufactures the detector or its retail price and using a comparable-size and type search coil.
I have a few very Tough Test Scenarios I use in evaluation for hunting Nail Infested places. The best of the FTP Teknetics line, the T2, is a model I have owned and used since their release, and it still falls short. I just acquired a newish T2+ w/5" DD coil yesterday to have on-hand as a 'loaner unit' if someone makes an Outing with a weak performing set-up, and I put it to the toughest two Iron Nail tests I use yesterday. While it does well and works as it used to when it was my main Relic Hunting tool [size=small](until January of 2015)[/size], it fails to match the performance I get from my FORS CoRe and FORS Relic.
Both the CoRe and Relic can do very well in dense iron debris sites, but the CoRe does call for a little patience in abundant iron because the iron is so loud and can be annoying. The Relic, on the other had, has two key features in its favor for the worst iron infested sites. One is the Iron Volume control so you can reduce the Volume or Loudness of the abundant Iron and be less annoyed while listening for the full-Volume non-ferrous target response. Another difference between the CoRe and Relic is that the CoRe operates at 15 kHz and the Relic, at 19 kHz, does benefit from a little 'edge' when it comes to handling target masking as well as responsiveness to smaller and lower-conductive targets.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but anyone could simply say the CoRe and Relic are 'OK' or 'Good' in Heavy Iron sites, and give a simple 'Yes' that they work well. But I have been Relic Hunting very challenging iron littered sites since May of '69 and will visit my first townsite this year to enjoy a 50th anniversary of where I first got tested on how to hunt in and handle dense Nail and other Iron and Rusty Tin contaminated places. This time, however, the CoRe and Relic will be serving me well.
ANY metal detector can detect metal, and some detector and coil combinations can make an occasional 'hit' on a desirable target in some iron plagued sites, so anyone can get lucky and find a keeper in iron. But next month I finish my 54th year and start on #55 enjoying this great sport, and I have always been very involved in learning the strengths and weaknesses of any detector I can handle to better determine what they have to offer me for the hunting I do and challenges I face ... and as of this morning, the Nokta CoRe and Relic are unmatched in their abilities to handle my tough iron challenges by ANY detector I have used, regardless of brand or model.
If you have the opportunity to get a hold of either device, with their smaller-size search coil, I am certain you will discover just how well they can perform afield in real-life environments.
Monte
What does that tell me? Just about nothing that's useful.
What's missing that would be helpful to me or anyone considering a detector for working a ferrous-challenged site? How about:
[size=x-small]►[/size] What is meant by "Iron?" Nails? If so, were they small boot nails or horseshoe nails or small-to-medium nails like for securing a crate, or larger nails from a structure?
[size=x-small]►[/size] If not just Nails, what other Iron / Ferrous junk was at the site? Railroad spikes, horseshoes, axe heads, smaller iron hardware like hinges, bolts, nuts, screws? Bigger-size iron associated with a railroad or machinery?
[size=x-small]►[/size] Does "Iron" refer to old rusty tin cans, or a scattering of the rusty tin shards of decayed cans?
[size=x-small]►[/size] What does "a lot of" really mean? How abundant was the Iron debris? How far was it spaced apart or how close was it, and over how large an area?
[size=x-small]►[/size] How many desirable finds were made close to offending Iron junk? Were targets found 'close' to Iron, or 'partially masked' by Iron?
[size=x-small]►[/size] What make and model detector was used?
[size=x-small]►[/size] What search coil size and type was used?
[size=x-small]►[/size] What were the settings used? Accepting some or all Iron? Use of Iron Audio Volume? Increase the Discrimination to just barely reject nails, or was it set higher at the Ferrous / Non-Ferrous break point?
[size=x-small]►[/size] Without observing or having a good description, you don't know the search techniques that were used to best handle whatever amount of Iron was present with whatever detector/coil outfit was being used.
I hunted old ghost town sites or homestead or school sites in several Western US states with a Teknetics Omega 8000 back in 2010-2015 and found old Coins, old Trade Tokens, neat small artifacts like Military Buttons and Insignia, Bullets, Cartridge Cases, Sheep Ear Tags or other noteworthy finds, and a lot of that was hunting in some of the more iron contaminated areas. Back then, I mainly used a 5" DD coil but sometimes, if a little more open and less trashy, I used a round 8" Concentric coil. I searched with both 2 Tone and 3 Tone modes, and kept my Discrimination either at about '10' to just hear the iron nails, or at '17'-'18' where most Nails were rejected. In a few cases, when it got very annoying, I bumped the Disc. to a setting of '40' which is the Ferrous/Non-Ferrous break-point.
That described hunting in low, moderate or heavy Iron contamination as well as the detector, settings and coil used, and I fund stuff so I enjoyed some success in my hunts. But unless someone asked me specifically or unless I offered my opinions, it could leave a lot of people thinking the Teknetics Omega was a very good detector for 'Relic Hunting' in a lot of Iron debris. But it wasn't, and it still isn't. Back then, as usual, I owned several detectors I had on-hand for different applications. The Omega 8000 was a very good urban Coin Hunting detector for me, and due to health and mobility limitations, age and such, I needed to use very light weight, well-balanced detectors and the Omega 8K was one of my favorite urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting detectors.
I also had a modified White's Classic ID for those uses, that could handle Relic site needs, and their MXT Pro that was sort of a 'do-it-all' model for coins and relics and whatnot. I always have two or three of my favorite Tesoro models, for general-purpose use. And from 2010 to January of 2015 the Teknetics T2 or T2 'Classic' with the 5" DD coil was my primary-use Relic Hunting detector. It matched or out-performed all other detectors I owned when I wanted to get serious and delve into very densely iron contaminated sites. Very contaminated, with a lot of Iron Nails of various sizes and abundant other iron and non-Iron targets, to include a very dense scattering or rusty tin.
Hanging on the wall here in my den is my first Nokta FORS CoRe I received on January 8th of 2015. Because I use smaller-size search coils 95% of the time, and have since late '72, I mounted the smaller 'OOR" DD coil [size=small](4.7X5.3 slightly Out-Of-Round shape)[/size] and immediately started with some comparisons of the CoRe with 'OOR' DD using an assortment of coins and test samples from my seminar jug, as well as using my Nail Board Performance Test and maybe four other iron-challenged test scenarios.u2robert said:
That was in my Den, then over the next few days I took the FORS CoRe and all my other visual Target ID models afield for some side-by-side evaluations. I had a lot of detectors and needed to thin down what I had, and the FORS CoRe was so impressive with that small coil, that by the evening of the 9th I started listing detectors that could go. In the next 4 to 5 months I sold or traded my Tek. T2, a Fisher F75, two F-19s, all but one modified Classic, my MXT Pro was also quick to go. All TID models were gone by June of 2015, with the last two being a White's MX-5 and my Tek. Omega 8000. The only other make or model I had added to my Detector Outfit was a Makro Racer [size=small](the 'original' red-colored Racer)[/size] which could work the iron-based places but, at the time, I used it for my urban Coin Hunting.
I lived in a very small town of 581 people [size=small](2016)[/size] that was roughly 60 miles from any modest size town to the east or west so my Coin Hunting opportunities with abundant parks and schools was very dismal. Almost the entire county was private property in farm land so almost all of my detecting time was spent in Relic Hunting mode, either accessing a few available permissions for old homesteads in the country, or travelling two to ten hours to get to my favorite older sites. Not much available in the original town since it has been underwater of Lake Umatilla since 1963 when the town had to relocate up the draw/canyon to be reestablished.
I moved to this booming bigger town of 1814 people [size=small](2016)[/size] in the fall of 2015 that puts me 35 minutes from a productive ghost town that had required a 5+ hour drive before. Other ghost towns and long abandoned stage stops, and railroad depots and stations are now a much shorter drive, and I have a bit more Coin Hunting opportunity here, and other towns are now 20 miles away and not 60. So this past six months I have added some Coin Hunting models back in my Detector Outfit that are very light weight, to include the Teknetics Omega 8000 and newer Fisher F44. I still have my Tesoro's, a Teknetics T2+ that arrived yesterday, and a few older models around I use in seminars. Maybe a model or two that I haven't assigned a spot for yet.
But I am totally ready for any Nail and other Ferrous contaminated site thanks to the two best, general-purpose, and excellent Relic Hunting detectors I have ever used ... two Nokta FORS CoRe and two Nokta FORS Relic models. Each model has one unit at-the-ready with their smallest size coil, and I use them a good 85%-90% of the time. The 2nd unit of each of these models have their own 5X9½ DD coils mounted and are ready-to-grab and hunt places with a low-to-modest amount of iron debris. I have not found a detector yet that can match the performance these two models provide me, regardless of who manufactures the detector or its retail price and using a comparable-size and type search coil.
I have a few very Tough Test Scenarios I use in evaluation for hunting Nail Infested places. The best of the FTP Teknetics line, the T2, is a model I have owned and used since their release, and it still falls short. I just acquired a newish T2+ w/5" DD coil yesterday to have on-hand as a 'loaner unit' if someone makes an Outing with a weak performing set-up, and I put it to the toughest two Iron Nail tests I use yesterday. While it does well and works as it used to when it was my main Relic Hunting tool [size=small](until January of 2015)[/size], it fails to match the performance I get from my FORS CoRe and FORS Relic.
Both the CoRe and Relic can do very well in dense iron debris sites, but the CoRe does call for a little patience in abundant iron because the iron is so loud and can be annoying. The Relic, on the other had, has two key features in its favor for the worst iron infested sites. One is the Iron Volume control so you can reduce the Volume or Loudness of the abundant Iron and be less annoyed while listening for the full-Volume non-ferrous target response. Another difference between the CoRe and Relic is that the CoRe operates at 15 kHz and the Relic, at 19 kHz, does benefit from a little 'edge' when it comes to handling target masking as well as responsiveness to smaller and lower-conductive targets.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but anyone could simply say the CoRe and Relic are 'OK' or 'Good' in Heavy Iron sites, and give a simple 'Yes' that they work well. But I have been Relic Hunting very challenging iron littered sites since May of '69 and will visit my first townsite this year to enjoy a 50th anniversary of where I first got tested on how to hunt in and handle dense Nail and other Iron and Rusty Tin contaminated places. This time, however, the CoRe and Relic will be serving me well.
ANY metal detector can detect metal, and some detector and coil combinations can make an occasional 'hit' on a desirable target in some iron plagued sites, so anyone can get lucky and find a keeper in iron. But next month I finish my 54th year and start on #55 enjoying this great sport, and I have always been very involved in learning the strengths and weaknesses of any detector I can handle to better determine what they have to offer me for the hunting I do and challenges I face ... and as of this morning, the Nokta CoRe and Relic are unmatched in their abilities to handle my tough iron challenges by ANY detector I have used, regardless of brand or model.
If you have the opportunity to get a hold of either device, with their smaller-size search coil, I am certain you will discover just how well they can perform afield in real-life environments.
Monte
david bull
Well-known member
Monte,I really hadn’t given it much thought but I’ve been detecting since around 1977.Much like you,I’ve had many detectors over the years.I found myself constantly seeking the next great breakthrough in detecting.I have recently narrowed my stable down to three detectors simply because as we grow older we tend to look for lighter,simple and efficient detectors.The “Relic” is also one of my keepers and has opened up some targets in hunted ot sites.My other two;a Fisher F75 which I purchased new (a bargain)and has the five year warranty and is a very good relic detector; an older White’s MXT E series with an SEF 8 x 6 coil ,which is well known for its relic locating abilities.As a primarily relic hunter I find that these three will do everything that I need.I always enjoy and learn from your posts,.Thanks for what you do!David
David, you're quite correct that with age and/or limiting health concerns, we tend to gravitate to lighter-weight and comfortably-balanced detectors. I know I've been doing that progressively ever since an on-the-job back injury the fall of '87, and especially trimming things down this past four-five years.david bull said:
I'm pretty close to having my Outfit well established to meet those needs today. My secondary detecting devotion is urban Coin Hunting, and for that I'm pretty much set with very light-weight models, like my Tesoro [size=small]micro[/size]MAX set, the Bandido II and Silver Sabre both equipped with 6" Concentric coils; A pair of Fisher F44's w/7" Concentric and 5" DD; and an Omega 8000 also w/7" Concentric coil. These easily fit the 'light-and-handy' category and work well for most typical urban needs at parks, schools, tot-lots, sports fields, etc.
But I got a good taste of Relic Hunting when I worked my first, and most favorite, ghost town in May of '69. I continued to split my attention between urban sites and rural sites until mid-'83 when we got our first really good slow-motion / quick-response detector that opened up the Relic Hunting sites for me. I still put in all the time I can in locals cities and towns, but only when I am not able to get away for some of the more serious and challenging and satisfying Relic-type sites I enjoy hunting the most.
Up until the Nokta FORS CoRe got in my hands on Jan. 8th of 2015, my main-use Relic Hunting device for nails and other ferrous-challenged sites was the Teknetics T2 w/5" DD coil. I had other makes and models for Coin Hunting and Relic Hunting, and in that latter group was a White's MXT Pro w/6½" Concentric coil. I found that, for me and my typical old site debris, the 6½" Concentric coil worked better than any other White's coil as well as any of the Detech coils, and I had several of them I worked with, to include the 6X8 SEF DD.david bull said:
But once the FORS CoRe was assembled and put to use in bench testing as well as taken to several nail infested homesteads and a few other old places, that bumped all my other Relic Hunting favorites, to include the Tek. T2 and White's MXT Pro, and I stated selling off all the excess detectors I had then, hanging on to only a few for Coin Hunting. A year later, in January of 2016, the new Nokta FORS Relic was added to my general purpose Outfit and I could take advantage of its enhanced performance and added features, plus the 19 kHz operating frequency, and make use of it's 5" DD coil to really enhance my Relic Hunting gear and complement the performance of my FORS CoRe.
They have remained, and currently hold, a solid position as my primary-use Relic Hunting detectors. I have a CoRe w/'OOR' DD and Relic w/5" DD to handles any confined spaces and trashier conditions, and I have an additional CoRe and Relic that each have their 5X9½ DD open-frame coils mounted to low-to-moderately littered sites. These two models are unmatched in their abilities to handle nail plagued sites, but can also be used for Coin Hunting local sites. I did add one more unit to my Outfit this past month, and that is the Teknetics T2+ w/5" DD coil that can be used for Relic type sites, but it is more than likely going to spend more of it's time in local Coin Hunting locations because I prefer its 3-Tone mode for Coin-based sites.
So for me, the CoRe and Relic and T2+ have my primary Relic Hunting needs satisfied, especially for working in dense debris with ample iron.
And I 'thank you' for the kind words. I'm always glad to offer up whatever I feel might be of benefit to some hobbyists in the hope it might help along the way to bring them some understanding and maybe a bit of success.david bull said:
Let's hope 2019 will be a rewarding year for all of us.
Monte