Nice hunt by a old late 1700's log cabin

[gold_geologist2011]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F--Gf150Hgw There are a couple things I would like information on. The most important would be the bullets. They are lead. If you would like some close up pictures of them let me know and i'll see what I can do. The thing I call a belt buckle... What is it really? And that porcelain piece that was within the mason jar lid. Any ideas on that?

Thanks a bunch! I'll be able to post pictures tomorrow.

 

[gold_geologist2011]

Considering the file sizes need to be so small to upload on here, I've decided to post them onto flickr. If you do not have a flickr account dont worry! You dont need an account to view them. Just click on the links I provide and they will take you to the photos.

Links for the lead bullet: http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254156741/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254681950/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254146487/in/photostream/

Links for the thing I call a belt buckle (perhaps more of a tag): http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254174913/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254180169/in/photostream/

Links to the porcelain piece in the mason jar lid: http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254717332/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254723636/in/photostream/

Links to the spoon: http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254692852/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254700120/in/photostream/

Link to all of my finds for the day (excluding things I threw away): http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6254199835/in/photostream/

Thanks, and enjoy!
Allen

 

[Ma Betty in MO]

Nice pics Allen...looks like you had a fun day finding those old items! The porcelain decorative piece might be a woman's pin when dressing up for special occassions! Just a guess! Ma Betty

 

[gold_geologist2011]

Thanks Betty! Interesting! Good thing I kept it eh? Too bad it was broken....

 

[taz42o]

You would need good measurements to I.D. the bullet but its modern maybe a .45.
The piece in the canning jar lid is the glass seal that was invented to keep food from contacting the zinc lid. Invented in 1869 and made into 20th century.

http://www.sha.org/bottle/closures.htm#Masons%20Patent

 

[gold_geologist2011]

Lead bullets were made in modern times? I will have to get back to you in about a week on the bullets proper dimensions.

Okay, I was told that by more that one person.

 

[taz42o]

Yes modern bullets are lead, some are jacketed with a harder metal.
I think your spoon maybe from the 1700s. Unless its a reproduction.
Is it pewter?
Hanoverian.
http://www.antiquesilverspoons.co.uk/patterns.htm

There is a thread at another site about those small plates with two holes and I think they figured out what they were but i forget. I will try to find it and and let you know.

 

[gold_geologist2011]

It looks like a rat-tail design more than a Hanoverian. My reasoning is that the drop is more pointed and less broad than what it would be if it were Hanoverian. It also doesnt have the pointy ended handle either. I am no spoon expert so I couldnt be for sure.

I have never seen anything Pewter so I couldnt tell you (Although I wouldnt be able to say if I had because I wouldnt know it if I saw it) It does have some slight metal-like shine in some places but I dont really know a good way to clean this thing.... Would electrolysis be okay? Note: Story has it that these people were the first of the Mitchell family to move to the U.S. and settle this property. They came from Germany and perhaps the spoon may have came along too....

I guess these bullets being in pretty good condition would also point toward them being younger.

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[CarolinaClyde]

The pewter spoon was made in a mold, most likely 1780's-1820, to me that was your best find. The bullets are modern and have no collectors value whatsoever. As mentioned above, the porcelain goes along with the zinc mason jar lid and I dig these alot. Looking at your site and your finds, I believe this site was lived on for a longer period of time than you believe. I would hunt that place hard as I'm sure there's some really nice stuff hiding there.

 

[gold_geologist2011]

I talked to a specialist on ammunition who has a lot of civil war bullets and such and he told me that the bullets were definitely from the civil war era. He said they made these type of bullets so there shots would be more accurate. Modern ammunition usually has a brass casing. He said they would be anywhere from right before the civil war to right after the civil war. I believe he referred to them as being minnie balls.... I tend to believe him due to his credibility. However, im getting multiple different answers on these.

I believe you that the spoon was my best find even if the bullets were from around the civil war.

Yep, your right the place was built in the late 1700's and was traded off to someone else in the late 1800's. He lived there until the early 1900's before he passed. My Father-in-law to be tells me that he remembers the place still standing sometime back in the 1960's. I think I can believe that.

I just caught your subject lol. Cool, I had no idea what that was.

I will definitely be hitting this property hard and slow....I dont want to miss anything cool. Especially gold and silver!!

Thanks for all of your answers!!

 

[gold_geologist2011]

Hey everyone! I got some dimensions on that bullet.

Here are some pictures. http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6284617098/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/59884159@N06/6284093047/in/photostream/

 

[CarolinaClyde]

I've dug hundreds of Civil War bullets and I'm sure those are not very old bullets. You might want to check with your expert one more time. I do believe that you need to dig that site out like crazy and you will make some really nice finds. Good Luck!

 

[taz42o]

Bullets need to be measured with calipers. You can buy cheap digital calipers ,very handy for posting finds and ID of bullet caliber.
But from pics you provided I will have to guess its a .41 caliber, witch measures 10.2 mm-10.4 mm diameter .
If you read a different measurement ,here is a list of bullets and sizes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_handgun_cartridges

I would not use your ammo specialist any more, That is not a civil war era minie ball.
Most jacketed bullets are copper jacket not brass, yes the cases are brass but you do not have the case.

 

[GoGoGopher]

yeah...I would say modern cast lead 40 or 41 caliber pistol round most likely...

HH,

 

[Ma Betty in MO]

Hi GG I have been thinking about your oval piece and I believe it to be an old fashioned hair barrette, as the two holes would be where the clip would attach and then be able to place or clip it into the hair! I use barrettes on my long hair and the main piece of the barrette or decoration part is missing! Compared to the jar lid, I believe it to be the right size for a woman to use rather than it being a pin for dress up like I said previously! I like all the silver coins you've found and the $ one is great as I had never found a Silver Dollar but have half-dollars, dimes, quarters, wheaties and just a few IHs in the 25 or 26 years plus of my detecting! Cannot go now because of my age and poor health! The bullets could be from present day hunters using that spot for camping and etc., as many such places have been used by hunters here in MO and leave their bullets, shells and trash...that is why many farmers and land owners stopped them from using their lands, as they were discourteous and left gates open and so forth! May God bless you to find some nice coins and relics on your old cabin site! Amen! It may have or may hot have been where the Civil War battles were fought! Ma Betty

 

[gold_geologist2011]

Thanks everyone! Yea, I guess the guy talked like he knew a lot but apparently he's just country and thought he knew a lot.... That tends to happen. Besides, I never saw his civil war collection and since all of you practically unanimously stated that he was wrong then im pretty sure that you guys are right and he's wrong.... Yep, definitely not going to assume he's right anymore lol. Thanks for convincing me!!

Ma Betty,

I've actually not found any of those silver coins with a metal detector.... I have yet to find ANY silver coins with a metal detector. These are just coins that I have either gathered from auctions or from my great grandmother who gave me a couple.

carolinaclyde,

Yep, im definitely going to be searching and digging that site like crazy!! I hope to find a cache of coins but who knows what will be there.... Unfortunately, there's a lot of trash here as well. Last time I was hunting there I decided to adjust the discrimination knob to the 12 o'clock position on my Bounty Hunter 2. I later found out that if I did that, I would have missed anything gold. It wont take me long to go back over that little area with the discrimination lower and to where it can pick up gold rings, coins, etc. Maybe I should get a smaller coil for this property. I have a 6 inch coil which is what came with the detector. I think I'm going to down grade a bit and hopefully pick up some nice bounty. Im in no hurry to detect this property fully because it'll be there when I have the time in a couple of weekends.

If I find anything interesting, ill definitely keep you posted on this thread.

 

[Ma Betty in MO]

n/t

 

[1859large]

Cool spoon! I have found many pieces of pewter spoons but nothing close to a whole one. And every other spoon is some thin copper stamped thing. Does your spoon have a recess on the handle? Many pewter spoons have makers marks stamped into the handles. Often they look like {JS} {YA} {TES} That is each stamp only has a few letters and are spaced apart.

I don't know much about bullets but thought that most early 1700 bullets where balls. Conical bullets came later with the invention of rifling.

The problem with sites that are really old is that they get built on again and again and the original soil surface gets turned over and buried under new fill as they build bigger houses and barns. But then again a ditch dug 50 years ago could bring a deep object back up again. Never give up the stuff is there somewhere. I live in a village that dates to 1650 but have never heard of anything older than 1800 ever being found, but it has to be there!

HH

1859

 

[gold_geologist2011]

The spoon has an M on the handle (on the back side). We believe it stood for Mishler (sp) it means Mitchell in German. There's a lot of history all over this property. However, what I showed you on the video isnt even close to all of it.... That's like 1/100th of the property. This part of the property was never built upon or anything since the cabin was built. The current land owners have kept very good record of all the past history of the property. The history was passed down from generation to generation.

The Mishler's from the late 1700's came over to America and bought some land and then built their cabin where its remains lie today. The cabin was lived in twice; once by the Mishler's and once by another individual who lived in it up until he passed away in the early 1900's. The cabin started falling down shortly afterward.

As the records have it, there was a loan shark who lived on the property who would hand out money to those people who needed money. I would assume some had been dropped. I know of the whereabouts that the loan shark lived because part of the old cabin is still standing today.

This is all virgin ground for metal detectorists. I'm very glad to have the opportunity to uncover history on this property.