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Anonymous
Guest
Can anyone tell me if you can use AA Nicads in the XS's spare battery pack If OK would the resulting lower total voltage effect the performance of the machine at all ?
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A
Anonymous
Guest
Rick,
I think many of us use the NiMH in out spare pack we have with no problems with them on the Explorer , but they will not work with the Sovereign. Unless you have the Sunray super charger you many have to charge them seperate as there is no chargeing port on the holder.
Get the NiMH instead of the Nicads as they will last longer and can be recharged at any time and wont get a memory like the Nicad will.
Rick
I think many of us use the NiMH in out spare pack we have with no problems with them on the Explorer , but they will not work with the Sovereign. Unless you have the Sunray super charger you many have to charge them seperate as there is no chargeing port on the holder.
Get the NiMH instead of the Nicads as they will last longer and can be recharged at any time and wont get a memory like the Nicad will.
Rick
A
Anonymous
Guest
The voltage of the stock Explorer rechargeable pack is 9.6 volts as stated on the label and the output of the alkaline pack with NIMH batteries installed would also be 9.6 volts. Since there isn't any plug on the extra pack, you can charge the pack from the contact point end by using a connector set from say a 9 v battery and holding the set against the contact points with a rubber band end wise. If you don't want to go through all that, buy an adapter from SunRay. The Explorer has some sort of voltage limiter that levels the amount of voltage the machine will accept from the NIMH 9.6 pack or the 12 v Alkaline pack. I use 1600 NIMH batteries in my extra pack, and they work just fine.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hmmm, that's strange. The label on my stock Minelab NiMH rechargeable battery pack that came with the XS reads 12v 1500 mAh. According to the battery chart in the owners manual, the voltage of a recharged pack is 12 volts and does not drop down to 9.6 volts until around 10.5 hours of use. I've never checked the voltage of the fully recharged pack but will do so the next time I recharge it because of all the messages posted in this forum. But I did just check the voltage now, after about 5-6 hours of use, and it still reads 10.28 volts. So for sure, 9.6v is not the upper limit for the stock Minelab pack.
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Anonymous
Guest
Inside that minelab pack are 8 AA batterys, no way to fit any more.. Someone once posted the explorer actually has a voltage stepper which increases the voltage from the battery pack to 12 V.. which explains why 8 AA batterys work.. I get as much time from my 1600 nimh AA's in the alkyline pack as I get from the minelab rechargeable pack, no problems here..
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Anonymous
Guest
I responded to the post because I thought it was misleading to say the Minelab battery pack was marked with a label stating the output was only 9.6v. It's not. Secondly, has anyone ever taken apart the stock rechargeable battery pack to see what's inside? Remember, the Minelab stock battery pack does not necessarily contain conventional-sized AA NiMH batteries. If fact, my guess is that they are not in the pack because the button terminal on the AA battery package takes up too much room. The manufacturer could very easily have rectangular shaped batteries custom made by a battery manufacturer. That would allow them to be packaged side by side in alternating order (+ and - terminals) with minimum hardware for the series hookup needed to generate 12v, leaving as much, in not more room, in the package than 8 AA batteries would take up. The additonal space would accomodate charger current limiter electronics, connector jack, etc. As to the voltage stepper, that seems like an awfully lot of trouble for nothing. If it works at 9.6v, why step it up to 12 volts? That costs the manufacturer extra money. Is Minelab doing that just to say the pack is 12v instead of 9.6V? The current limiting for the charger can be easily accomplished with a diode. The voltage stepper upper? The electronics for that alone could be as large as the entire battery pack. That's not quite so easy to accomplish. My bet is that there are 10 custom made NiMH batteries in the Minelab stock battery pack.
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Anonymous
Guest
My NIMH Battery pack label states the pack is 9.6v and the ah rating for the individual batteries is 1500Mah. It is possible that they they have put some of those small batteries in some of the packs and they are rated at 12 volts, but mine isn't. The label on my alkaline pack states it is 12v and to use only 8 1.5v AA alkaline batteries(12 volts total). Now the only difference between the body of the 2 packs is the rechargeable pack has a charge connector on the connector pole point end and the same area of the alkaline is plugged. The end lid on the rechargeable pack is sealed. The SunRay adapter pack charges the unit through the end connector poles and that method will work for rechargeable batteries put in the alkaline pack. I was told that the SunRay charger will not charge at a its highest rating using the normal plug in the rechargeable pack because there is a charge limitor built imto the pack that limits the charge rate to 100ma (If I remember right). He asked if he could use 8 Nicad or NIMH batteries in the alkaline pack and the answer is yes. He just has to use the end connector poles to charge the complete pack with batteries installed. Jim, I was told that there was a voltage limiter in the machine that controlled the voltage to 9.6 volts or thereabouts. I can't affirm that one way or the other.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Nes,
Hmmm, this is getting more interesting. When did you buy your Explorer? Mine is fairly new and dated, if I recall the paperwork correctly, March 4th of this year. If you have one of the originals bought last year, maybe the pack was rated at 9.6v but later changed to 12v. That does beg the question why? Having a 9.6v voltage limiter in the control housing makes more sense than a voltage stepper in the battery. But then again, why? If the machine operates at 9.6v, then why a 12v battery pack? None of this makes sense. Maybe we can get the other Explorer XS owners to tell us what their battery packs read.
Hmmm, this is getting more interesting. When did you buy your Explorer? Mine is fairly new and dated, if I recall the paperwork correctly, March 4th of this year. If you have one of the originals bought last year, maybe the pack was rated at 9.6v but later changed to 12v. That does beg the question why? Having a 9.6v voltage limiter in the control housing makes more sense than a voltage stepper in the battery. But then again, why? If the machine operates at 9.6v, then why a 12v battery pack? None of this makes sense. Maybe we can get the other Explorer XS owners to tell us what their battery packs read.
A
Anonymous
Guest
battery pack label read? My says 12v at 1500 mAh, whereas Nes' label reads 9v at 1500 mAh. Can the rest of you tell us what your label reads? Looks like there may be two different Minelab stock packs out there for the Explorer XS. Anybody know anything about this? I have to admit the rechargeable is identical to the alkaline in size and shape, including the round bottom tubes. So if the Minelab rechargeable pack does have 10 custom made batteries inside, they are cylindrical and shorter in length, rather than rectangular as I postulated in my other message.
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Anonymous
Guest
They could have changed to smaller batteries for a 10 pack, but if the machine operates at 9.6 volts why do that?(probably for a longer lasting charge) I looked in the specs area of my manual and they list the rechargeable pack as 12 volts and I thought at the time that it was misstated. They put 10 small rechargeables in the original Excalibur pod and they were only rated at about 600 Mah and so later on I changed them to 1100 then 1600 mahr batteries (I put 10 in the pod). I guess if yours says 12 volts and mine says 9.6 volts then either one will work, but yours will last a bit longer. The fact is that I use the alkaline pack with 8 1600 mahr Nimh batteries and it lasts a bit longer that the standard 9.6 pack. I use the rechargeable original pack as a back up...Nes
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Anonymous
Guest
To all concerned,
The Minelab rechargeable pak (labeled 12v. or otherwise) consists of 8 AA size Chinese made NIMH 1.2v batteries. Total voltage under load is 9.6v. The pak has a limiter circuit between the batteries and the external plug-in jack which limits any incoming mah to 100. There is a voltage booster circuit incorporated into the electronics of the Explorer in the control housing which boosts the voltage from 9.6v to 12v. The system is set up for 12v. operation and that is why the 1500 mah pak (consisting of only 8 cells) only last for approx. 10-11 hrs. There is always give and take when doing the above.
Using ten cells for this operation using the standard AA size batteries would have lengthened the battery compartment considerably and apparently that is why they choose 8 cells and a voltage booster as an alternative.
I saw this thread and even though I posted most of the above early last year, I thought it might be of help to explain it again. We have had the paks apart and I can assure you there are 8 AA size round cells in the rechargeable pak.
Now, when the Alkalyne pak is filled with 8 AA cells the voltage is then 12v and apparently overrides the voltage booster since it already provides 12v. I hope this information is helpful.
Ralph (Sun Ray)
The Minelab rechargeable pak (labeled 12v. or otherwise) consists of 8 AA size Chinese made NIMH 1.2v batteries. Total voltage under load is 9.6v. The pak has a limiter circuit between the batteries and the external plug-in jack which limits any incoming mah to 100. There is a voltage booster circuit incorporated into the electronics of the Explorer in the control housing which boosts the voltage from 9.6v to 12v. The system is set up for 12v. operation and that is why the 1500 mah pak (consisting of only 8 cells) only last for approx. 10-11 hrs. There is always give and take when doing the above.
Using ten cells for this operation using the standard AA size batteries would have lengthened the battery compartment considerably and apparently that is why they choose 8 cells and a voltage booster as an alternative.
I saw this thread and even though I posted most of the above early last year, I thought it might be of help to explain it again. We have had the paks apart and I can assure you there are 8 AA size round cells in the rechargeable pak.
Now, when the Alkalyne pak is filled with 8 AA cells the voltage is then 12v and apparently overrides the voltage booster since it already provides 12v. I hope this information is helpful.
Ralph (Sun Ray)
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Anonymous
Guest
I'm glad you cleared that up. So the manual is wrong and some of the labels are wrong. I was over to the SunRay forum this AM looking through the posts to see if there were any comments on this subject and went through the archives here without any luck. Question..Can the rechargeable packs be taken apart and reassembled with new batteries...Just asking...Looks like the lids are glued..Nes
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Anonymous
Guest
Ralph,
You said the total voltage under load is 9.6v. Just how high do the NiMH batteries charge to? What would be the no load voltage of the stock Minelab after a full charge? Looking at the battery performance chart on page 92 of the owners manual, at time = 0:00, the chart shows the rechargeable pack reads 11.25. For 8 cells, that would indicate an individual charge of about 1.41v. I just measured 10.28v, and my pack is about 1/3 to 1/2 discharged. According to the chart, this voltage level indicates about 7 hours of use. Is there any chance that what you say is true for the Explorers when they first came out, but the design has changed? That could explain why some packs are marked one 9.6 and others 12v. Regardless, all of this information from you, Nes, Jim, etc. has been MOST helpful because it now looks like I am going to be getting a set of NiMH rechargeables and charger system for my spare alkaline pack!
You said the total voltage under load is 9.6v. Just how high do the NiMH batteries charge to? What would be the no load voltage of the stock Minelab after a full charge? Looking at the battery performance chart on page 92 of the owners manual, at time = 0:00, the chart shows the rechargeable pack reads 11.25. For 8 cells, that would indicate an individual charge of about 1.41v. I just measured 10.28v, and my pack is about 1/3 to 1/2 discharged. According to the chart, this voltage level indicates about 7 hours of use. Is there any chance that what you say is true for the Explorers when they first came out, but the design has changed? That could explain why some packs are marked one 9.6 and others 12v. Regardless, all of this information from you, Nes, Jim, etc. has been MOST helpful because it now looks like I am going to be getting a set of NiMH rechargeables and charger system for my spare alkaline pack!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Thom & Nes,
What I meant by under load is that a fully charged cell will read higher in voltage right after being taken off the charger than it will after it has been removed for a while or is under load. You can see this happening on the Explorer Battery Guage as sometimes when you turn on the detector, after a battery has been run for several hrs., etc. the guage will read full and a few minutes later the cylinder will drop to the correct level. This is also why you can run the detector until it shuts down. And then wait a few minutes and turn it back on and run it for a few more minutes until it shuts down again. The charge picks up some when not under load even when it has been discharged. There is a threshhold in the detector electronics which when the voltage drops below it, the detector gives the low battery alert and then shortly after shuts down. After the battery gains voltage from not being under load it will trigger the detector to work again (but not for long) as the minimum powering voltage once again drops below the required voltage and shuts down.
We used to use the above method when out in the field with our Sovereigns, along way from our vehicle and did not have a spare pak when the battery would drain and the detector would shut down right in the middle of a recovery or just after getting a good signal and we wanted to continue before giving up and going all the way back to the vehicle to change batteries. Especially if it was at the end of the day and we didn't want to make that long trip to the vehicle and back just to finish that target retrieval.
However, this worked somewhat well in a limited way with the Sovereign as the battery pak had the correct amount of cells to power the detector without a voltage booster. The Explorer will probably not fare all that well using the above method as it is boosting the voltage to 12v from 9.6 (8 cells) so it will shut down much faster if the drained battery is reinserted (or turned back on). When using that method with the Sovereign, each time you turned it off for a minute or two, and then back on, you would have less and less time to finish before it would shut down again.
As to whether Minelab has changed the cells in the rechargeble pak from 9.6v to 12v. you can always call them and ask, however, I am certain that it must have only been a label change as there is no extra room (and the wrong molded shape) to change cell size or shape in the battery housing. The Alkaline holder looks exactly like the rechargeable pak inside except for the absence of a jack and limiter circuit.
As to opening the rechargeable pak to replace batteries you will probably break the case (either the case or glued cover) attempting this. It's much easier to just purchase another alkaline holder as they are only $14.00. I hope this answers your questions.
Ralph (Sun Ray)
What I meant by under load is that a fully charged cell will read higher in voltage right after being taken off the charger than it will after it has been removed for a while or is under load. You can see this happening on the Explorer Battery Guage as sometimes when you turn on the detector, after a battery has been run for several hrs., etc. the guage will read full and a few minutes later the cylinder will drop to the correct level. This is also why you can run the detector until it shuts down. And then wait a few minutes and turn it back on and run it for a few more minutes until it shuts down again. The charge picks up some when not under load even when it has been discharged. There is a threshhold in the detector electronics which when the voltage drops below it, the detector gives the low battery alert and then shortly after shuts down. After the battery gains voltage from not being under load it will trigger the detector to work again (but not for long) as the minimum powering voltage once again drops below the required voltage and shuts down.
We used to use the above method when out in the field with our Sovereigns, along way from our vehicle and did not have a spare pak when the battery would drain and the detector would shut down right in the middle of a recovery or just after getting a good signal and we wanted to continue before giving up and going all the way back to the vehicle to change batteries. Especially if it was at the end of the day and we didn't want to make that long trip to the vehicle and back just to finish that target retrieval.
However, this worked somewhat well in a limited way with the Sovereign as the battery pak had the correct amount of cells to power the detector without a voltage booster. The Explorer will probably not fare all that well using the above method as it is boosting the voltage to 12v from 9.6 (8 cells) so it will shut down much faster if the drained battery is reinserted (or turned back on). When using that method with the Sovereign, each time you turned it off for a minute or two, and then back on, you would have less and less time to finish before it would shut down again.
As to whether Minelab has changed the cells in the rechargeble pak from 9.6v to 12v. you can always call them and ask, however, I am certain that it must have only been a label change as there is no extra room (and the wrong molded shape) to change cell size or shape in the battery housing. The Alkaline holder looks exactly like the rechargeable pak inside except for the absence of a jack and limiter circuit.
As to opening the rechargeable pak to replace batteries you will probably break the case (either the case or glued cover) attempting this. It's much easier to just purchase another alkaline holder as they are only $14.00. I hope this answers your questions.
Ralph (Sun Ray)
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Anonymous
Guest
I have 2 extra alkaline pack containers now and they have NIMH batteries inside. I liked Minelabs idea of having the batteries in the handle of the Explorer since they tend to counterweight the coil weight somewhat. I was somewhat leary of the Explorer at first having had an Excalibur and a Sovereign, but familiarity in this case doesn't breed contempt. As of now the Explorer is the deepest beach machine I have ever owned and that covers some territory. Oh yes, your charger has worked on all 3 and still does...Nes
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Anonymous
Guest
and purchased last month. ROM date reads September '00. Interesting as a couple of others read '99. Wonder what changes, if any, were made to the ROM?
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Anonymous
Guest
Somebody said in a post several months ago that the Sept 00 software supported the new display, whatever that means. I've not heard from anyone that the new display is significantly different than the old display.
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Anonymous
Guest
Hello from Western Australia.
I am told by minelab that the software change is due soley to a different brand of display they are now using.
I am told by minelab that the software change is due soley to a different brand of display they are now using.
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Anonymous
Guest
[No message]
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Anonymous
Guest
Thom,
I just took a new one out and the display has more of a yellow tint to it while indoors and harder to see. Now outdoors in the sunlight it seems a litte easier to see and I dont notice the yellow as much. I did notice that after being in the sunlight for a while the screen darkens more than the older one I had, but could always see it good.
Now on the batterys I charged up the original one that come with the newer version and i looked at the battery and it is marked 9.6 volts (1500MhA) while the battery pack on the older ones says 12 volts (1500 MhA). I used my Sunray super charger and when it was fully charged I took a digital volt meter and it shows 11.15 volt fully charges. The alkiline pack I put 8 of the nickle hydride batterys (1600MhA)in it and charged it too on the Sunray charger untill fully charged and it showed 11.51 volts ( a little higher). I have the older style one on the charger right now and will see what it says in the morning, but I am sure it will be 11. something volts too as i do belive they are the same and they just changed the lable as the ones that say 12 volts were not correct.
Also from what I have tested the updated Explorer is no different than the original one is for performance, the only difference is the slight tint on the display.
Rick
I just took a new one out and the display has more of a yellow tint to it while indoors and harder to see. Now outdoors in the sunlight it seems a litte easier to see and I dont notice the yellow as much. I did notice that after being in the sunlight for a while the screen darkens more than the older one I had, but could always see it good.
Now on the batterys I charged up the original one that come with the newer version and i looked at the battery and it is marked 9.6 volts (1500MhA) while the battery pack on the older ones says 12 volts (1500 MhA). I used my Sunray super charger and when it was fully charged I took a digital volt meter and it shows 11.15 volt fully charges. The alkiline pack I put 8 of the nickle hydride batterys (1600MhA)in it and charged it too on the Sunray charger untill fully charged and it showed 11.51 volts ( a little higher). I have the older style one on the charger right now and will see what it says in the morning, but I am sure it will be 11. something volts too as i do belive they are the same and they just changed the lable as the ones that say 12 volts were not correct.
Also from what I have tested the updated Explorer is no different than the original one is for performance, the only difference is the slight tint on the display.
Rick