New to xterra and I have a few questions

[GADiggerDan]

Hello All,
I'm new to the forum. I've had a detector since 1978. Have many hours on Fisher 553-D, Fisher 1265X, and a Tesoro Eldorado from the 90s. I bought an xterra 50 last summer mainly for coin hunting and have used it through 3 sets of batteries, so I have a little experience with it. Time spent was about 50/50 coin hunting/relic hunting using 8" concentric coil that came with it.

Questions:
1. Is the "all metal mode" the same as one of the discriminate patterns with nothing notched out? Or is it different technology? The pinpoint mode seems to more of a true "all metal" mode.
2. Has anyone here tried hunting in pinpoint mode? When in pinpoint mode, mine appears to de-tune itself somewhat after a couple of seconds to make the target appear smaller. Apparently this is by design so the pinpointing will be easier. Is there a way to disable this feature.
3. Is there a way to eliminate the false signals that appear as 45 on the meter. Happens at the edges of junk. It drives me crazy, but I'm afraid I'll miss something if I notch it out.
4. The 50 appears to be hot on brass, but not so hot on lead. I have found a few CW bullets with it so I'm not saying it won't find them. This opinion is based on burying bullets and trying to find them with the X-terra, the Eldorado and Fisher 1270.
I think that's all. Any opinions or ideas on these subjects is greatly appreciated.
P.S. Im not here to bash the x-terra. It appears to be a better machine for coin hunting than the previously mentioned other models.

 

[Digger]

Welcome to the X-Terra forum.


the short version......
1. Notches are simply preprogrammed slots, each representing specific levels of target conductivity. When you turn any of those notches off, you have instructed your detector to not detect those targets with property values represented by those notch segments. You haven't told your detector what to detect. You've told it what NOT to detect. All Metal is different in that it ignores the limitations of notch segments and detects anything within the boundaries the manufacturer determined to be the maximim and minimum conductivity levels.

2. The Automatic Pinpoint mode on your X-50 is an all metal, non-motion mode. As such, you will pick up anything metal. But being non-motion, you'll have difficulty maintaining stability while detecting in that mode. (primarily due to GB and Sensitivity) Automatic Pinpointing on your X-50 is tone and volume modulated. In other words, the tone will increase in both pitch and volume as you center over the target. Auto Pinpoint mode automatically reduces the sensitivity every time you sweep over the target. (that is why it would be tough to hunt in this mode). The X-705 is the only model that allows you to change the Pinpoint mode. It has both Auto Pinpoint and Pinpoint Sizing. In Pinpoint Sizing, the Sensitivity level is held at a constant.

3. My thoughts on getting those "false signals" on TID values of 45 are different than yours. To me, the discriminator between my headphone speakers is the best one I have. Consistent location and consistent audio tone make up 90% of my decision as whether to dig or not. If I X over a target and the exact location is not the same from various directions, I go on. If the sound breaks up from more than one direction, I go on. If, however, it sounds good from one direction every time I pass over it, and it doesn't "move" in the ground, I'll dig it up.

4. The X-50 will find anything metal. I know the stock X-Terra 7.5 kHz concentric coil isn't that much different than the Fisher 1270's 8.7 kHz or the Eldorado's 9.8 kHz. But considering lead has a lower conductivity than brass (copper + zinc), you might think about trying one of the 18.75 kHz coils. And depending on how mineralized your soil is, you might want to consider the 10.5-inch DD instead of the 9-inch concentric. In my 38+ years of detecting, I've used about everything out there at one time or another. In fact, when I read your post about the 553, it brought back a lot of memories of my 555D. Anyway, I have great respect for the depth capabilities of the older Fishers. The 1265, 1266 and 1270 were all depth hogs. Personally, I wouldn't put the Eldorado in the same league. I would not hesitate to say that IF you set your X-Terra up properly, and chose the appropriate coil for the soil and targets you are hunting for, you'll dig more goodies (and bypass more trash) than with any other detector you mentioned. JMHO


[attachment 151491 electrical-conductivity-table.gif]


If you need more detail, or if you have other questions, don't hesitate to ask. HH Randy

 

[Beale]

Welcome to the site! Congrats on your new X-Terra. For more information also make sure to read the FAQFAQ at the top of the site. It is full of great info, Beale.

 

[GADiggerDan]

I didn't mean to imply I knew everything about metal detectors. I only meant to point out that I was comparing my observations to what I've seen in the past on these other "way older" detectors.

I guess I consider "no motion" as being "all metal" and motion as being adjustable discrimination. I guess I should have given up on this idea some time back in the 80s. Based on these assumptions (however flawed), I guess the question would be is the Minelab more like the Tesoro and 553, or is it more like the 1265. I believe your answer and what I've experienced is that it operates more similar to the 1265.

I agree with everything you said about the "false signal" portion of your answer. I know it's a matter of learning to ignore the chirps and chatter. I just wished it falsed with lower tones instead of high tones.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[7centsworth]

Welcome to the forum . I had a 50 then i bought a 70 , because I could choose the tones.

 

[Digger]

Hey Dan, I appreciate your opinions. Sharing thoughts is how we all learn. The X-Terra operates much like all of the above. You move the coil over a target and it beeps. The main difference between the X-Terra and the non-metered detectors is that it has visual TID and some other goodies that will spoil ya! LOL If your 553 was like my 555, it had very little information other than ferrous or conductive. The only TID detectors that Tesoro has today is the Cortes and DeLeon. Neither of them allow setting the proper GB in the discrimination mode. And although the 1265 was a deep seeking detector, all of my "top of the line" Fisher detectors thought if a target was round and metal, it was a coin. That might say more about my hearing than it does the detector. But having used a lot of them, I can say my trash digging has been reduced drastically with the X-Terra. Attribute that to the audio tones, notch discrimination and TID.

a few more thoughts on all metal mode.......Many refer to the VLF type of detectors as being motion detectors. In other words, you should have the coil in motion to detect a target. And most manufacturers of VLF detectors use the term "all metal" mode. I believe the term "all metal" is where the confusion comes in. I think "zero discrimination" would better describe what most refer to as the "all metal" mode. Especially with notch discriminators. Remember, the notches are software driven to reflect specific levels of conductivity.
Even though the Prospecting mode on the 705 or X-70 is thought be some to be a non-motion mode, I don't see it as that. You might be able to slow the sweep way down in Prospecting. But if you stop moving the coil, the target stops responding. In Pinpoint mode(s), you can stop the coil directly over the target and the audio will not fade. But be careful to not lift your coil when doing that, or the signal will go away. .....try this on your X-Terra.....in Pinpoint mode.....sweep the coil over a target at about 3 or 4 inches. Keep sweeping that coil back and forth, always moving it closer to the surface of the target. Now, when you get it within an inch or two of the target, keep sweeping the coil back and forth and lift it out toward that 4 inch area again. Lost the target, didn't you? Yes you will. Now, you can wait about 10 seconds for the X-Terra to reset. Or you can simply go out of, and back into, the Pinpoint mode. This happens in the Pinpoint Auto mode on all X-Terra models. But in Pinpoint Sizing, the audio will not fade when you lift the coil.

One more thought I wanted to add on your deep iron problem.....99% of the time, a high conductive target, such as a chunk of pure silver, will maintain the same TID reading no matter what part of the coil passes over it. On the other hand, a target with low conductivity, such as a chunk of old iron, the TID will vary depending on what part of the coil it is passing under. (this is a test you can try at home) That is why low conductive targets are more likely to "bounce around" on the meter, as compared to high conductive targets. Especially whey they're underground and oxidizing in the soil. That is one of the reasons I hunt in the all metal mode (zero discrimination), with multiple tones. With a separate tone assigned to each notch segment, when the TID bounces, so does the audio tone. This allows me to run in zero discrimination, "hunt by ear" and not have to keep an eye on the meter. JMHO HH Randy

 

[David]

Thanks, alot of good stuff there Randy.

First of all, then since if the Prospecting Mode is not a true non-motion mode, maybe the TID numbers could be assigned to it. I would like that if it was possible on the next model. BUT as a solution to this, Minelab says to hunt in Prospecting Mode(which is deeper) until you get a target, then switch over to C & T Mode to check the Target ID to decide whether to dig it or not, if there is no TID(being too deep for C & T Mode) then always dig it up. This technique will only apply to areas where the targets are fewer and further between. Not for high trash areas. But instead can be used for some relic, beach, large farmers field hunting, gold prospecting, etc.

Secondly, the tell-tale sign of some low-conductive junk targets is bouncing numbers(so is boucing audio tones in Multiple Tones-99) as you say. That is why a person has to be careful using +Target ID Stability because it will stabilise those type of junk targets also.

+Target ID Stability is used to stabilise Target ID numbers in some areas with highly mineralised soil where high-conductive numbers(of copper, silver, and some gold) jump around, but the disadvantage of this is that it also stabilises that low-conducitve junk also.

I like these statements below:

Digger(Randy) wrote, "3. My thoughts on getting those "false signals" on TID values of 45 are different than yours. To me, the discriminator between my headphone speakers is the best one I have. Consistent location and consistent audio tone make up 90% of my decision as whether to dig or not. If I X over a target and the exact location is not the same from various directions, I go on. If the sound breaks up from more than one direction, I go on. If, however, it sounds good from one direction every time I pass over it, and it doesn't "move" in the ground, I'll dig it up."

"I can say my trash digging has been reduced drastically with the X-Terra. Attribute that to the audio tones, notch discrimination and TID."

"That is why low conductive targets are more likely to "bounce around" on the meter, as compared to high conductive targets. Especially whey they're underground and oxidizing in the soil. That is one of the reasons I hunt in the all metal mode (zero discrimination), with multiple tones. With a separate tone assigned to each notch segment, when the TID bounces, so does the audio tone. This allows me to run in zero discrimination, "hunt by ear" and not have to keep an eye on the meter. JMHO HH Randy"

 

[Sonny(IN)]

Randy is this also true if you go to SIZING pinpoint mode? try this in Pinpoint mode.....sweep a target under the coil about 5 inches. Keep sweeping that target back and forth, always moving it closer to the coil. Now, when you get it within an inch or two of the coil, keep sweeping it back and forth and move it back out toward that 5 inch area. Lost the target, didn't you?

 

[David]

I forgot to add another disadvantage of using +Target ID Stability besides stabilising some junk targets (l learned this from Des Dunne MLOTV-Minelabowners TV website video), is also the Target Tone-audio may not always match the stabilized Target ID (X-70 users manual-page 20).

 

[Digger]

No, while in Pinpoint Sizing, moving the coil farther from the target does not result in a loss of audio. In Sizing Pinpoint, the Sensitivity isn't automatically reduced with each sweep as it is with Auto Pinpoint. But don't think "shrinking audio" in Auto mode is a "malfunction". It is actually by design. Desensitizing the coil around the target area is what allows you to precisely pinpoint the target. If the audio around the target area didn't "shrink", some people wouldn't be able to pinpoint.




JMHO HH Randy