Need advice on purchase

[treasure4pleasure]

Ok I realize this is a xterra forum but my question is pertaining to two diff. detectors. I am trying to make the best decision I can on my first MD and thus far I've come down to the Tesoro Vaquero and The Xterra 505. This is my price range although I would've like to stuck closer to 400.
I am having a really hard time deciding. Especially since I'm very new at this and don't fully understand alot. It looks like the xterra has 3 freq. it can operate at and they really vary, the vaq does too but they are similar. is this important? My son has an ace 250 and I don't want there to be any kind of intererence.
I am interested in most anything..coins, jewelry, relics.. I want one that detect deep and not too hard to use. Also manual ground balancing as well.
thanks for any input!!!

 

[Old Longhair]

I would take the 505 over the Vaquero, in part because of it's ability to change frequencies (YES, the amount of change matters!), the ability to effectively notch out ranges in the middle instead of straight gradiant scale discrimination, and the multi tones.

The Vaq has only a frequency shift. It is intended to be used to knock down EMI, or be able to hunt near another detector operating on the same frequency.
The Xterra also has "noise cancel" which operates more like the Vaq's frequency shift.

The Xterra has dramatic differences in search frequencies, which is in no way like the Vaq. High frequency for low conductive targets like gold, low frequency for high conductive items like silver, copper, etc..., and a medium frequency for filling the gap or for general purpose use. This alone makes it far more versitile than the Vaquero.

 

[xwyokid]

I own both. Both are good machines. However, for versatility's sake I would take take the 505. No question.

 

[Digger]

There are vast differences between the Vaquero and the X-TERRA. As Old Longhair pointed out, the Vaquero incorporates what is known as variable discrimination. What that means is, when you set the discrimination level, all targets with conductivity level greater than where you set it will be accepted. All targets with less conductivity will be ignored. For a point of reference, copper is more conductive than aluminum and silver is more conductive than copper. Nickel is less conductive than copper but more conductive than iron. So to you as a detectorist using a detector with variable discrimination, when you discriminate out pull tabs, you'll also be rejecting nickels and most gold jewelry. The X-TERRA uses what is known as notch discrimination. On the 505 you have 19 notch segments. 3 of them represent 3 "bins" of targets with high ferrous content. (ferrous representing iron) And 16 of them represent "bins" of targets with higher conductive properties. The larger the number assigned to each notch (bin), the greater the amount of conductivity. In a nut shell, that means when using notch discrimination, you can reject pull tabs and still accept nickels most gold jewelry. Somewhat similar to your son's Ace 250, but more refined on the X-TERRA. On the Vaquero, you have one frequency of audio tone, no matter what the target is. On the X-TERRA, using multiple tones, you can have a different sounding tone represent each notch segment. In other words, you can have a tone for nickels, a different tone for pennies, a different tone for dimes, a different tone for quarters, etc etc etc. 19 tones for the 19 "bins" or notch segments. The Vaquero does not offer any visual display. The X-TERRA has Target ID numbers, Battery indicator, Depth gauge, icons for Patterns or All Metal modes, Discrimination Scale, the menu screen and so forth. There are a lot of techical reasons I'd opt for the X-TERRA. But to best answer your question as to which way to go......... ask you son if he would like his Ace 250 as well if it didn't have notches, tones or a visual screen. Then consider the X-TERRA 505 offers all those things on his Ace, and more. Much more! JMHO HH Randy

 

[treasure4pleasure]

Thanks for the info
My son is 12 so I'm not sure he'll be that much help lol, in fact he doesn't seem as interested in it as I am now
. I wasn't impressed with the readout(ace 250) as it was wrong most of the time and was really just frustrating. Not that all would be that way, but the ace 250 was in our case. Now, if it was right more than wrong I would like to have a display.
Here are my concerns: 1. I want a life time warranty minelab doesn't have that. 2. I've done alot of reading on forums and etc and the i've not read a bad review of the vaquero. The xterra, well some have said it was just a low to mid range detector and it's more $ than the vaquero. 3. It's heavier 4. I've read the coils cost an arm & leg so that would be a con if I wanted to try another one.5. Both companies are topnotch I believe. I noticed also one has a "mono" coil and the other "concentric" no clue what that means. lol

 

[DirtAngler]

Picking the right detector is a never ending quest. Good luck with your research and choice. I do not own a Vaquero but do have a Silver Umax. I also don't own the Xterra 505 but do own, for the second time, a Xterra 705. The Silver Umax is a fun machine and not as good as the Vaquero but similar in operation. The 505 is similar to the 705 but doesn't have as many features. With this being said, I would definetly choose a Xterra over a Vaquero for the noise cancel and TID as well as the notch discrimination, but to each their own, you're going to use it, it has to be your choice.

 

[Digger]

You're welcome. I've owned all of the X-TERRA models as well as both the high tone and standard tone version of the Vaquero. [attachment 230547 vaquero.jpg] I no longer have the Vaquero.
As I said before, it will hunt deep if you supertune it. But don't forget to turn down the Sensitivity and Threshold before you go to Pinpoint or it will blow your ears off. And don't plan to run it Supertuned if you're hunting in weeds or wet grass.
Regardless of my opinion or the reasons I mentioned earlier, it sounds like you've already made up your mind you need a lifetime warranty. If that is the case, then Tesoro is your answer. Best of luck with whatever you decide. HH Randy

 

[treasure4pleasure]

Well considering my price range 400-500$ what would you say my best bet for a minelab would be?

 

[DirtAngler]

Contact the sponsors and see who can give you the best price for a xterra 505. One I'd check with is Backwoods Detectors.

 

[Digger]

If using a 3 kHz coil is not a concern (which it wouldn't be with any other brand), at under $400, ($150 less than the X-TERRA 505) you might consider the X-TERRA 305. Don't let the price fool you as it is fully packed with functionality. Here is a chart you can use to make comparisons between models, as taken from Minelab's website:
http://www.minelab.com/usa/products/adventure-detectors/x-terra-705?view=compare&product1=3993&product2=2580&product3=

When you get some time, you might check out the Feedback forum and get a listing of dealers who help sponsor this site. Do some shopping around and make your best deal! I'm sure they'd all appreciate your business.
HH Randy

 

[calibil]

I own both (705) and they are great machines, have found great things with both and won't part with either, Tesoro does have the better warranty and the service is top notch, yes the variable sound and disc on the 705 is great but it fails Montys nail board test.

 

[treasure4pleasure]

Thanks so much everyone, I really appreciate everyone's input!
It looks like the diffs. between the two are: 505: 19 segment discrimination scale and 3 patterns that can be personalized. 305: 12 seg. discrim. scale and 2 patterns that can be personalized.
1 less audio tone for the 305.
Manual ground balance is 0-50 versus 0-20
sensitivity adjust. 1-20 versus 1-10
5 channels versus 3 channels
Target volume adjust. is 0-30 versus 0-10

 

[Digger]

The thing to keep in mind with the number of adjustments is that the maximum and minimum levels are the same. In other words the highest Sensitivity and lowest Sensitivity are the same for both models, the highest volume level and lowest volume level are the same for both models, zero discrimination to full discrimination is the same, etc. The difference is simply the number of adjustments allowed between them. As far as number of Patterns..... you can only use one at a time anyway. And it takes all of a second to make modifications in the field. The biggest difference to me would be not using the low frequency coil on the 305. It is probably the least popular coil available, as far as sales are concerned. Its just that I've come to really like mine over the years. HH Randy

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the main difference in those scales has to do with the coarseness vs. fineness of adjustment. For example, I don't believe that the target volume is 3 times more volume, just 3 times as many settings. I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong.

HighPlainsHunter

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

The thing to keep in mind with the number of adjustments is that the maximum and minimum levels are the same. In other words the highest Sensitivity and lowest Sensitivity are the same for both models, the highest volume level and lowest volume level are the same for both models, zero discrimination to full discrimination is the same, etc. The difference is simply the number of adjustments allowed between them. As far as number of Patterns..... you can only use one at a time anyway. And it takes all of a second to make modifications in the field. The biggest difference to me would be not using the low frequency coil on the 305. It is probably the least popular coil available, as far as sales are concerned. Its just that I've come to really like mine over the years. HH Randy

Great minds think alike...

 

[pescadore]

The lifetime warranty on the Tesoro is definitely a selling point however, you are comparing apples and oranges (TID vs non) when it comes to these detectors. I personally have not owned the Vaquero so I can't comment on it specifically. I have owned other Tesoro machines and if you don't want the visual display I think they are excellent. The X-terra 505 on the other hand is similar to my 705 with a few less features so I believe I can speak fairly intelligently about it. I have used a lot of different detectors in my MDing over the 20 plus years I have been doing this. I find the 705 to be one of the best machines I have ever owned for several reasons. It is lightweight, versatile, plenty deep, has great features and fun to use. I bought mine on the classifieds and it was within your price range. It was barely used and I got an excellent deal. You might consider looking for one on the classifieds of this and other forums and step up to the 705 otherwise I would still take the 505 over the Vaquero any day due to the versatility of being able to change frequencies by changing coils and the TID. I could go into other advantages of the
x-terra but looks like others have already pointed those out to you. There are several good machines in your price range but none of them can do what the X-terra can and to me it's a no brainer.

 

[treasure4pleasure]

thanks guys
So you're saying the 305 is probably close to as good as the 505 and it's possibly not worth the $150 more in price?
What is the benefit of using a low frequency coil? Would I be missing out on something?
I did read something somewhere about the xterra's having a design flaw in which the coil started coming detached from the main base or something like that? That concerned me a bit.

 

[michaelosully]

"I did read something somewhere about the xterra's having a design flaw in which the coil started coming detached from the main base or something like that? That concerned me a bit."

Never heard of this being a problem before? I've owned the X-Terra 305, then bought another 505, then traded the 305 in on a 705. So, think that speaks for itself. I agree with pescadore (in his post above) that the 705 is the way to go. If $'s is an issue, save yourself some and buy a good used 705 with warranty left on it. Just contact some of the forum sponsors and let them know you are in the market for a good, used 705.

Good Findings!

 

[Digger]

So you're saying the 305 is probably close to as good as the 505 and it's possibly not worth the $150 more in price?

I won't speak for the others. But that is not what I am saying. Both detectors are feature rich and fully functional. The 505 allows you to fine-tune the settings to maximize its potential at the sites you hunt. Although the 305 has adjustments on those same settings, they can't be refined to the point of the 505. For example, you are likely to get a more accurate ground balance with the 505 than you do the 305. The 305 breaks down all targets into 12 "bins". The 505 takes those same targets and can place them into one of 19 "bins". As with the ground balance... your TID will be more "fine tuned" with the 505 than the 305. Lets say you hit a quarter that read 42 on the 505. That same quarter can't read 42 on the 305 because the 305 doesn't have that bin slot. Instead, it will put it into either bin 40 or bin 44. Depending on various conditions (soil matrix, angle of coin, adjacent targets etc.)

What is the benefit of using a low frequency coil? Would I be missing out on something?

All of the coil frequencies will find metal. But the frequency does influence how the signal is received and processed by the detector. Lower frequency coils are best suited for higher conductive targets such as silver and copper. But more importantly to me..... they are less suited for low conductive targets such as old rusty nails! For someone like me who enjoys hunting old homesites, the low frequency provides definite benefits. If you've not read my ebook "Understanding your X-TERRA", I'd invite you to do so. It explains many of the questions you've been asking, in greater detail. Its FREE and can be found on Minelab's website. Or you can see a preview at this link. http://www.minelab.com/__files/f/43282/Understanding%20you%20X-TERRA%20preview.pdf

I did read something somewhere about the xterra's having a design flaw in which the coil started coming detached from the main base or something like that? That concerned me a bit.

Personally, I wouldn't call it a design flaw. If anything, I'd consider it to be a batch problem during a specific time period in manufacturing. When the X-TERRA was first introduced, there we no reports of a problem with folks breaking a tab from their stock 9-inch concentric coil. Sometime later, there was a short period of time when a small number of people reported having broken one or both of the tabs on the coil. Some questions were asked about their possibly not using the washers that were supplied with the coil. But as far as I know, nothing was ever "officially" determined to be the cause of the problem. I've not heard of anyone having a problem with a detector coil manufactured within the past couple years. And for those that broke.....from the reports I've heard, Minelab was very good about replacing them.

JMHO Randy

 

[treasure4pleasure]

Digger you're very good at explaining things. Thank you!!
Gonna check out your book!!!. I called a place tonight about some md's and the owner sells minelabs and some other brands. He talked to me about the xterra's and also told me the 705 seemed to be the most popular, but he suggested the Garrett AT Pro to me. He raved about it in fact. He has an etrac but told me his friend has an at pro and that it was a really impressive machine. So I guess I will at least give it a look. Idk..