multi or single

[emubob]

which is better single or multi frequency detectors?all of my detectors have been single frequency and i have found plenty of money and jewellery with them.now i have the latest and greatest and am steadily finding less with it .i hope this is just a learning curve and it will improve,or have i bought a lemon.emubob

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Depends on your hunt site, soil types, objectives, etc..... If I'm at a ghost-townsy nail-riddled site, then a MF machine, like my Explorer, will start missing stuff d/t masking. So I reach for my Tesoro Bandito SF machine. Which sees through nails better.

But if I'm turf hunting and want more depth, better TID, etc..., then I reach for my Explorer.

So .... your question is contingent on your hunt type site and objectives.

 

[Welgund]

I have learned over the years that the latest and greatest doesn't mean your going to find more just have fun playing with a new machine etc. The only machines that really made me go woah was the Bandido2 micromax back in 1999, I upgrades to it from a bandido2. When I got an explorer se pro as my first multi frequency it made me go woah again.lol. then when I got the Deus in 2013 it was a big woah. Then the CTX in 2013. I have had every machine you can imagine since 1993 but them are the only ones to raise my eyebrows.

 

[dirt doctor]

Possibly you are finding less and less because as time goes on there is less and less to find .

 

[Monte]

With regard to either reference, operating frequency or audio tones, there are several variables that make it very difficult to suggest a 'proper' or 'absolute' answer.

which is better single or multi frequency detectors?

It can depend upon the single frequency chosen, either by detector design or by operator choice of a 'selectable' multi-frequency model. It can also depend on the 'simultaneous' multi-frequency detector design with regard to how many frequencies are in actual use, and how the particular detector works. In addition, you have to factor in the search site terrain, mineralization, and the amount or density of possible masking trash. Finally, it is important to consider how the detector was designed to work and how the operator is handling the detector in question. Often I see people who are working the search coil at too fast a sweep rate to get the best in-the-field performance, regardless of frequencies used.

Then there is the metal part to take into account. By 'mental part' I am referring to the operator not having a clear understanding of the frequency choice and any benefits or weaknesses there could be, or even being disillusioned by ads or hype and led to believe that multi-frequency is flawless and will always mean better performance.

all of my detectors have been single frequency and i have found plenty of money and jewellery with them. now i have the latest and greatest and am steadily finding less with it.

I have owned, all together, sixteen or more 'multi-frequency' detectors, some selectable' but most 'simultaneous' types, and they all found things. But I've been an Avid Detectorist for over fifty-three years and the bulk of my hunting has naturally been using a single-frequency detector. I have ten units in my current Regular-Use Detector Team but only one of them is a multi-frequency type, and it is a 'selectable' design so in essence it is still single frequency operation. I make use of each of these detectors throughout the year, and some of them will always be along with me in my detecting travels simply because they are proven performers for the challenging sites I most often search.

But they are in my detector battery because I know them. That means learning them to the point that I am aware of their strengths and weaknesses and I make sure I am attentive to the settings, coil choice, and search technique of each in order to gain the best performance. You said: "Now I have the latest and greatest ..." but didn't clarify what you have. Do you have a single frequency or multi-frequency detector now? Are you searching the same sites or are you exploring new and different places that might have better potential? If you are simply re-hunting the same places that produced before, then as Tom in CA suggested, you are finding less because a lot has already been found.

i hope this is just a learning curve and it will improve,or have i bought a lemon.emubob

There is always going to be a 'learning curve' when you buy a new-to-you detector. Once you learn it well and make better site selections, your results are likely to improve. As for buying a lemon, you didn't share with us what you bought, what search coil you are using, or the types of sites you are hunting with that new-to-you detector. Who knows, maybe you did get a lemon, but we don't now what you bought or the type of site you're searching.

Now, as I suggested at the start of my reply, I see similar things occur regarding audio tones as I do in detector frequency choices. Some people get kind of set in their thinking that one certain frequency works well for everything than another, or that a multi-frequency detector will always do better than a single frequency device, and that just isn't true. I've seen many who did very well using a single-tone detector then move on to a multi-tone type of 3 or more tones, and soon they seemed to get too attached to certain tones and not rely on a single tone function because they felt the multi-tone could give a more accurate audio response. Then began to concentrate on certain tone pitches more than the full audio report and pass on recovering a potentially good target because the tone wasn't "just right."

It's all a metal thing to a certain degree and the best thing to do is learn and master what ever detector you have, one, two, three or multiple frequencies [size=small](or tones)[/size] and then work the sites that are most likely to be productive and recover more targets. The success rate for Coins and Jewelry will go up as well.

Monte

 

[GeorgeinSC]

I have been using the same two multifrequency machines for a number of years. One for dirt and one for the water. Every year I am finding less and less. People are using plastic more and more every year so they have less and less coinage to lose.

I am also finding fewer pieces of precious metal jewelry. I don't know why. I certainly am putting in the time and effort.

Are people becoming more careful at the beach??

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Monte, you are an absolute asset to the metal detecting community. Your name with go down in immortal history, for your excellent inputs and all your unselfish time and energy put into those that have questions. Thanx !

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....

I am also finding fewer pieces of precious metal jewelry. I don't know why. I certainly am putting in the time and effort.

Are people becoming more careful at the beach??

George, I started @ land hunting, as a 13-ish yr. old, in about 1975-ish. And in those days, go figure, we were high-discriminating during the "silver rush". And strictly doing turf, so .... we got very few gold rings.

But then ventured into beach hunting (1980) . And I recall those early years, in the 1980s, that there were only 3 types of rings we found : Junk rings (of course, like Avon or whatever). Silver rings, and Gold (or plat) rings. And if you found a wedding ring, it was CERTAIN to be gold (or plat). And if you found a school class ring, it was CERTAIN to be gold.

But then as the decades rolled on: Class rings started to be in junk metal types . And in the last decade or two, titanium and other cr*p is now done in a lot of wedding rings. We NEVER used to see that. So now, after a good storm erosion, if you come in with 5 rings, odds are you'll have a few junk wedding rings, right (titanium, stainless steel, etc...). And a single gold. But in the old days, all 5 of those rings had higher odds of being gold. Since no self-respecting person ever got a wedding ring or class ring that was anything less than gold .

So ,... yes ... the gold ring ratios have tended to drop

 

[emubob]

for monty,the minelab equinox 800,emubob

 

[Mark kus]

Why buy a single frequency Detector? like any Garrett new? you can own a equinox and change it or run multi which by multi means more than one frequency same time better in mineralized soil.
or deus lots of different frequency options but not able to run in multi frequency at the same time. To me makes no sense nowadays IMHO all single frequency machines are old technology I like the ability to switch like on my Deus run 72 for gold hunting or running multi on my equinox..
And of course you have a machine locked in a single frequency or a single frequency that has the ability to change them to other frequency which I like my deus and equinox has the best of both worlds run multi or pick one of four so why buy one machine that limits you to just one frequency?

 

[Jason in Enid]

....



But then as the decades rolled on: Class rings started to be in junk metal types . And in the last decade or two, titanium and other cr*p is now done in a lot of wedding rings. We NEVER used to see that. So now, after a good storm erosion, if you come in with 5 rings, odds are you'll have a few junk wedding rings, right (titanium, stainless steel, etc...). And a single gold. But in the old days, all 5 of those rings had higher odds of being gold. Since no self-respecting person ever got a wedding ring or class ring that was anything less than gold .

So ,... yes ... the gold ring ratios have tended to drop

Add in to the mix that many guys are wearing rubber "safety" wedding rings.

 

[calabash digger]

multi whether selectable or simultaneous. 800.00 dollars for a unit that can only run one frequency or one that can change selectable frequencies. A no brainer for me where my money is going. We all cant afford to own 40 different detectors. A selectable frequency detector can be like owning 4 or 5 units in one. Best bang for the buck! IMO

 

[Monte]

Why buy a single frequency Detector?

For some people and some detecting applications, a single4 frequency, one that might fit in a particulars frequency range, might be all that some people really need. For example, maybe they find a detector they like, that balances well for them, has a coil selection they like, and adjustment features suited for their wants and needs, audio tones that appeal to them, and that particular detector choice might work at 13 kHz, 13.9 kHz, 14 kHz or 15 kHz .. just to narrow down a certain frequency range. There are la lot of newer, ne or slightly older detectors that operate at those frequencies and can hold their own in so many applications that those detectors might be 'just right' for a lot of folks.

... you can own a equinox and change it or run multi which by multi means more than one frequency same time better in mineralized soil.

Your statement is not exactly true. It will depend upon the particular simultaneous frequency model, the coil in use, and the ground mineral make-up for some multi's to possibly do better than some single-frequency detectors. I've been enjoying this great sport for a very long time, have owned quite a few so-called multi-frequency detectors, and have compared many makes and models in all sorts of bad-ground environments. I live in or travel to and hunt in highly mineralized ground, and have proven to myself, as well to friends using various multi-frequency detectors, that the multi-frequency circuitry designs do not always handle mineralization better.

At the present time I have a bunch of single-frequency detectors in my outfit as well as selectable multi-frequency designs, but no simultaneous multi-frequency units currently. I hunt with a lot of people who use all three designs, single, selectable and multi-frequency detectors, and I haven't been compelled to select any of the simultaneous offerings to take care of my wants and needs at the challenging sites I hunt. And remember, too, that you can take all the multi-frequency detectors in current use from Fisher, Minelab, Nokta-Makro, White's and XP and compare them all, side-by-side, with a half-dozen test scenarios and a half-dozen naturally-located targets and find that there isn't a single one that could be considered 'perfect' in all cases so far as audio response clarity, iron trash handling, and other factors to be compared.

We might have a favorite out of the group, or more than likely two or three we prefer, and that's because there are many, many differences in engineered design and performance other than just the operating frequency.

Just some thoughts.

Monte

 

[dfmike]

Monte, you are an absolute asset to the metal detecting community. Your name with go down in immortal history, for your excellent inputs and all your unselfish time and energy put into those that have questions. Thanx !

So true !

 

[Ozleif]

Good to see you are still active.

Mr R.

 

[Mark kus]

Why buy a single frequency Detector?For some people and some detecting applications, a single4 frequency, one that might fit in a particulars frequency range, might be all that some people really need. For example, maybe they find a detector they like, that balances well for them, has a coil selection they like, and adjustment features suited for their wants and needs, audio tones that appeal to them, and that particular detector choice might work at 13 kHz, 13.9 kHz, 14 kHz or 15 kHz .. just to narrow down a certain frequency range. There are la lot of newer, ne or slightly older detectors that operate at those frequencies and can hold their own in so many applications that those detectors might be 'just right' for a lot of folks.


... you can own a equinox and change it or run multi which by multi means more than one frequency same time better in mineralized soil.Your statement is not exactly true. It will depend upon the particular simultaneous frequency model, the coil in use, and the ground mineral make-up for some multi's to possibly do better than some single-frequency detectors. I've been enjoying this great sport for a very long time, have owned quite a few so-called multi-frequency detectors, and have compared many makes and models in all sorts of bad-ground environments. I live in or travel to and hunt in highly mineralized ground, and have proven to myself, as well to friends using various multi-frequency detectors, that the multi-frequency circuitry designs do not always handle mineralization better.

At the present time I have a bunch of single-frequency detectors in my outfit as well as selectable multi-frequency designs, but no simmultaneous multi-frequency units currently. I hunt













M








with a lot of people who use all three designs, single, selectable and multi-frequency detectors, and I haven't been compelled to select any of the simultaneous offerings to take care of my wants and needs at the challenging sites I hunt. And remember, too, that you can take all the multi-frequency detectors in current use from Fisher, Minelab, Nokta-Makro, White's and XP and compare them all, side-by-side, with a half-dozen test scenarios and a half-dozen naturally-located targets and find that there isn't a single one that could be considered 'perfect' in all cases so far as audio response clarity, iron trash handling, and other factors to be compared.

We might have a favorite out of the group, or more than likely two or three we prefer, and that's because there are many, many differences in engineered design and performance other than just the operating frequency.

Just some thoughts.

Monte

True my point is for people with limited funds who can’t afford multiple machines I hunt beaches and for me and my style I like the equinox because of its abilitiy to work well in the mineralized sand and then go to a park or field it does what a lot of single frequency machines don’t do well.
My point is I only have two machines and I do very well with my Deus and nox.
If I had to take just one it would be my Equinox because it’s waterproof.

 

[Monte]

True my point is for people with limited funds who can’t afford multiple machines ...

Yes, having limited funds can play into how many and what type of detector(s) people will own.

Some people can afford more detectors, but they just aren't into the sport as much due to other interests they have and one or two detectors can get them by. Of course there are some very active folks who have been at it for quite a while, put in a lot of time, research and hunt old sites and have done/are doing quite well. One, for example, is Tom in CA who posts on these forums. He might have sprung for a new and modern detector, but the last I have heard him mention was he was doing just fine and getting by quite well with two detectors; A Minelab Explorer II and in dense iron debris he grabs a Tesoro Bandido. Two detectors that he likes and have the performance he needs for success afield.

Then, too, what we want and need detector wise also depends on the types of hunting we like to do. Beach hunters who wade or dive might prefer a waterproof detector. Gold Nugget Hunting also requires some attention to selection to get better performance from very challenging mineralized sites. Coin Hunting and Relic Hunting are two other types of enjoyment we can take on with a wide assortment of detectors, but very dedicated enthusiasts know that some makes and models do reign superior over others for depth in favorable locations, or for unmasking keepers in iron infested sites.

There isn't a 'perfect' detector made, but there are a lot out there that might be 'just right' and appeal to an individual's wants and needs. Yes, using me as an example, I have more than a couple of detectors. Some models I have duplicates of, such as 2 Nokta CoRe, 2 Nokta Relic, 2 Teknetics Omega 8000's and 2 Tesoro Bandido II µMAX. There are reasons. The first two are each equipped with a different search coil I like to use so I just grab the detector/coil set-up I want for a particular site .The last two have the same search coils on each pair because those are the coils I enjoy using the most with that model, and the extra Omega 8K I have around as a 'loaner unit' for friends and family, and especially for a property owner to use when I need to coax them to have fun so I can gain permission to private property.

And the extra Bandido II µMAX is because I keep one on my den wall as 'back-up' and the other, along with the Omega, are my constant-travel detectors I always keep in my vehicle for daily travel. My other models are also favorites' of mine as they have proven themselves to me and, along with my CoRe and Relic devices, I can draw a few of them to take with when I set out on a dedicated metal det5ecting outing, and the others include an XLT, modified Classic ID, MX-7 and Anfibio Multi. I do have a few more units from Compass, Garrett and the original Teknetics that I make use of occasionally for fun, but they are mainly on-hand for doing my seminars or other presentations.

.. I hunt beaches and for me and my style I like the equinox because of its ability to work well in the mineralized sand and then go to a park or field it does what a lot of single frequency machines don’t do well.

Here I am in agreement with YOUR decision to select the make and model detectors that YOU want for the types of sites YOU enjoy hunting. We should all want to have fun and enjoy this great sport, and we want to have success as well, so I think everyone ought to check out any and all detectors that interest them, have an open mind during their evaluation and testing process, and select one or more detectors that they like and want to use.

Regardless of what they are, if they satisfy your wants and needs, then I'm pleased you will enjoy getting out and having fun.

My point is I only have two machines and I do very well with my Deus and nox.
If I had to take just one it would be my Equinox because it’s waterproof.

I occasionally do some beach hunting, most often freshwater due to where I live, and get a coil wet but I don't wade or dive. I have detectors in my outfit that I enjoy using for Beach Hunting purposes.

I also enjoy urban Coin Hunting and I have some detectors that I like to grab for different types of site conditions or opportunities, such as getting depth in open areas, or working in dense trash or hunting closer to metal structures. Some I can use for Beach Hunting, but I prefer them for Coin Hunting.

Then there is Relic Hunting which is where I spend 75% or more of my time with a detector in-hand. Most of my chosen sites since I started Relic Hunting back in 1969 have been ghost towns, homesteads, pioneer or military encampments, old fort sites, battle sites, gold mining camps or town sites, logging camps, out-of-use picnic and resort sites, and the list goes on. Most of these places have a lot in common, such as being remote and void of any or very little modern-day trash, and they have an abundance of nails and other iron debris that is sometimes very dense in some confined sections. The terrain can be dirt, rocky or gravelly texture, very mineralized and often compacted, barren or weed and wild grass covered, possibly include a dense amount of sage brush, thickets or wooded land. And there can be rocks to deal with as well as debris from burned or age-destroyed structures.

A few of the detectors I own and use I can Beach Hunt or Coin & Jewelry Hunt with and they can do OK for a lot of my Relic Hunting, but not all of it. Therefore some of the devices in my arsenal are the ones I use more specifically for my Relic Hunting needs because they do a better job of unmasking good targets in a heavy iron nails or other ferrous junk scattered site.

Finally, I also have been doing contract searches since '71, and often those have been for known containers of coins or other valuable items, and at times the container size and type are unknown, and there are some units I own that do much better than others when I need to use a Discriminate mode to deal with trash when looking for a hidden glass jar, pottery crock, cloth bag, wooden box or leather container that is full of silver coins. Some models I own or that are popular on the market today, do not handle some Cache Hunting tasks well at all.

Because I get out detecting often, and enjoy a wide range of hunt site environments, applications and have specific needs, I have made it a point to have an outfit that can handle what I need when I want it.

I have the detectors I have because I like them, I want them, and at times I need them. I have bought them, been given some, and have made some trades through the years to get to where I am today. I am satisfied. You or anyone else can determine what you can afford or what to acquire, find what you like and get it to handle your needs, and if you are also satisfied, that is good.

One thing I will say is that some of my reply earlier was to clarify some statements because I often read opinions that are not totally correct and I don't like newcomers to be mislead. I will gldly express my opinions of what I like or what I don't care for regarding some detectors, but I don't want to suggest everyone need to own only what I like and use, or stay away from models that don't agree with me. There are a lot of folks in the hobby of having fun and a lot of detectors out there to pick from. We just need to pick what we like for what we do. It's that simple. With that said, best of success to you on your net journey a field ... or a beach or a park or a someplace.

Monte

 

[Mega]

Interesting topic,and i will give some of my thoughts on the subject regarding single and multiple freq machines,how i use whats on offer for my detecting sites and my wide array of 'possible' targets and 'ground conditions'

I guess that i am lucky that i live in the UK with our amazing history and of course the potential wide array of items that we can/do find,as we are well aware that no single detector/coil combination or even a single detector even with a selection of coils ie large to small can do it all,well not that i am aware anyway,some come reasonably close,but they can excel in some areas better than other but let down in other areas.Some of the Tesoros are legendary regarding discrimination as a 'example' but not possibly the deepest machines going.

I am lucky that i do have a wide selection of machine that i have accumulated over the years and even a bigger array of coils,when i mean alot,so why would anyone need so many coils one could ask,especially when you can only swing one at a time.This allows me the wider selection of tools in my detecting toolkit,you could of course just use a adjustable spanner,but the right tool for the job is often seen as the best way forward.

Some of my machines are a 'fixed' freq and cannot be changed,so why would i even think about keeping or even using them,simple reply is they are about as good as it gets for that specific task in hand,some of my very early but pristine Tesoro/laser machine some are 30 year old,but the magic that these machines give is when you use a small coil or in some cases ultra small like my Laser B3 or B1 when using the small 4'' not alot can touch these machine on ultra trashy medieval or roman sites and also for mudlarking on the trashy River Thames foreshore,they are the single freq machines used by the larkers.This is of course some uses of single freq machines,i also have other like my Nexus machines that although are single freq but can also be used in other single freq's as well,but only one at a time,this is achieved by using specific freq coils,very much like the Minelab Exterra machines,so when would i use a single machine that can be changed by swapping coils,well the biggest advantage and main reason for a machine like this is that on my Nexus's machines you have some needs that require either a smaller or even massive coil for that task in hand,when searching for deep artifacts or hoards and i mean deep on clean pasture sites,the coil option would be a very large coil running a very low 'khz' freq,this gives you the massive depth advantage but of course the down side is that its no good in this combination on small single coin size items,hence why i use a selection of coils sizes,these are usually always carried with me.

Multi freq machines that i use either being used single in the case of the Deus,well its very light and having a wrist problem then a light machine like the Deus is a godsend,i can subject to the site conditions or targets,flick too other various freq just by button,which is very handy,one advantage that stands out is that if i am not sure about a target then i could scan another freq and see what response i still get from the targets,can aid target 'id' that is a bonus,but alas although many modern machines do offer 3 single freq due too legalities of electronics held by certain companies who hold certain trump cards ie Minelab then most competitors cannot go down the full route of using all freq together,the only machine that i own and use that offers multi freq is my old faithful DFX,it only has 2 freq but excels on wet beaches and also on soil that has high mineral content.......its not a machine that i use much these days mainly because of the weight,but i wont part with it.

These are some of the uses that either fixed single freq machines can be used for,and even multiply freq machines,subject to many things like soil conditions,targets that you are hunting for etc etc,but of course the topic in theory is mainly aimed at VLF machines,but of course another platform that folks also use and including myself is the 'Pulse Induction' platform,is it a specialist use type of machine ?? well its not the norm is it,but its still a detector that folks use for hunting metal items in what ever format,once again the same thing applies they also have advantages and disadvantages but can be used in some situations that either a single or multi freq VLF machine just cannot work,but a Pulse machine can.

These are just some of my thoughts and opinions on how i use either single or multi freq and also the other platform that was not mentioned ie Pulse Induction.

 

[lytle78]

Patents are no significant obstacle to progress in designing detectors which use more than frequency at the same time (whether simultaneously or sequentially) - machines which Dave Johnson likes to call “multifreakers”. If we call those “multifreakers” - then we can call machines which use either one freq only or one of several selectable single frequency “simglefreakers”.


What is holding companies back is not that it is difficult to design a system to,produce a waveform providing multiple transmitted frequencies (whether throug frequency shifting or production of harmonic frequencies). What is difficult is to provide analysis of the resulting target return signals and use the information contained in the complex signal by software algorithms.

Even when this is done successfully, the results have to amount to a superior tool when compared to singlefreakers. This makes it a big risk for any of the tiny companies which design and produce hobbiest metal detectors to invest the many man-years and millions of dollars necessary to design, test and bring to market a detector using a new and unproven technology. Simply copying existing units won’t do. Patents, trade secrets and the obsolescence of existing designs without unexpired patents make that a dead end.

 

[Mark kus]

All good points I also suffer from bad tennis elbow and like the lightweight of the Deus and Equinox and having the ability to just plug in and recharge these new machines is great!