" Multi-IQ copes with saltwater and beach conditions ALMOST as well as BBS/FBS, however BBS/FBS still have an advantage for finding high conductive si

[Donna(NJ]

Not really looking to find silver coins on the beach....

Interesting tidbit....

May have to wait awhile before I jump....

HH
Donna(NJ)

 

[Ksdirt]

So are we saying the nox won't see the silver Dime or quarter or even pick it up hardly say at 10"...is the nox just a gold machine and clad...?

 

[treasure_hunter]

I don't see it saying it want hit silver, it is saying it want hit silver as hard as FBS/BBS, not that it want see it.

 

[happycamper08]

After reading that statement from minelab I think I will stick with the etrac for a while longer.

 

[amberjack]

have to remember this was made to take on the Deus in Europe and that will be interesting to see how it does over there...

AJ

 

[UtahRich]

From what I'm reading, the ONLY reason Minelab is saying that BBS and FBS have an advantage on silver is because of their LOWER starting frequency (3kHz) vs that of the Equinox (5kHz). The lower frequency performs slightly better with higher conductive targets like silver.



Rich (Utah)

 

[Nuke em]

From what I'm reading, the ONLY reason Minelab is saying that BBS and FBS have an advantage on silver is because of their LOWER starting frequency (3kHz) vs that of the Equinox (5kHz). The lower frequency performs slightly better with higher conductive targets like silver.



Rich (Utah)

With the 5 , 10 and 15 khts freqs they should work very well.
If not then why are the Deus so good at 18 khts ? Yes i know there are other freqs .

The Equinox will be as good as you need .

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Minelab's statement is kind of useless without knowing the BBS and FBS machine settings. For example BBS is WAY more stable than FBS on a wet saltwater beach with both machines adjusted for high performance. I'm not saying the Excalibur can't false but a FBS machine like an Se Pro adjusted for high performance probably falses 50 times to 1 BBS false. So how does Multi-IQ compare, the jury is still out. As for the silver comment okay a silver coin or ring is a big fat juicy silver signal but small silver jewelry, chains, ID between foil and nickel, and would benefit from a higher frequency, so again I think the jury is still out.

Multi-IQ on a saltwater beach, its GOLD I'm interested in silver is just parking meter money. If Multi-IQ is better on small gold BBS and FBS won't get a signal on, or deeper on gold vs BBS/FBS that's a win!

 

[UtahRich]

I'm with you Nuke em. In my mind, any slight disadvantage due to the differences in frequencies will be made up with better separation and perhaps any unique abilities of the multi-IQ technology. Plus it is water resistant and much lighter than my E-trac. I don't have water resistant as part of my arsenal right now and light weight is always nicer.

Too, I don't plan on giving up my E-trac or Racer 2. I think an Equinox will complement the E-trac and Racer 2 I currently use most of the time.


RIch (Utah)

 

[Cal_Cobra]

From what I'm reading, the ONLY reason Minelab is saying that BBS and FBS have an advantage on silver is because of their LOWER starting frequency (3kHz) vs that of the Equinox (5kHz). The lower frequency performs [size=x-large]slightly[/size] better with higher conductive targets like silver.



Rich (Utah)

Exactly, and until we have production units in the field to try out, nobody here can quantify exactly what "slightly" means in the real world....

 

[wpaxt]

...to cut through the baloney and offer an insightful opinion. Why Minelab doesn't add you to their field testing group is beyond me.

BTW, I'm still working on your Dark Science notes on the Explorer. Pretty heady stuff for my little brain but it's starting to make sense.

Bill (S. CA)

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

...to cut through the baloney and offer an insightful opinion. Why Minelab doesn't add you to their field testing group is beyond me.

BTW, I'm still working on your Dark Science notes on the Explorer. Pretty heady stuff for my little brain but it's starting to make sense.

Bill (S. CA)

Tip of the iceberg Bill, contradiction #1 the Equinox has better target ID at depth...the only way to achieve that is to better deal with soil mineralization. Even in mild mineralization the deeper the coin, the more soil mineralization swamps the coin signal until its completely swamped and the coin vanishes with the soil rejection. So air test depth vs actual depth achieved in the soil. So if the Equinox is better at cutting through the soil mineralization vs FBS then which machine actually goes deeper on silver in the soil? Bingo!

Other variations, Equinox improved target separation hitting on silver hiding in the shadow of trash and iron vs FBS, Equinox higher frequencies hitting on silver tipped on edge presenting only a partial surface area of the coin to the coil e.g. higher frequencies are better for getting hits on smaller targets which is what a coin tipped partially on edge presents to the coil. Equinox hitting on 3 cent silver, half dimes, gold dollars.

A good case could be made for taking an Equinox into the sites pounded to death with FBS. Its not going to be a gold rush like the site was never hunted lets be realistic, FBS machines are quite good. But if your sites are dead the Equinox may latch on to some additional finds the FBS machines can't touch. I think the more mineralized the soil is, the better chance of that happening. Ditto for the more trash/iron infested the sites are.

I recently purchased another machine, it can operate at 56 kHz. I assembled a collection of targets for testing, silver coins, copper, bronze, several gold coins, and a bunch of gold jewelry of various sizes. For the coins I was testing them on edge, 45 degree angle to straight up on edge to the coil. It was an eye opener to watch this new machine at 56 kHz hit strong on all these targets when my mighty Explorer Se Pro weak to no signal at all. Naturally I have to wonder how many targets I walked over with the Explorer the past 17 years.

 

[metalpopper]

From what I'm reading, the ONLY reason Minelab is saying that BBS and FBS have an advantage on silver is because of their [size=x-large]LOWER starting frequency (3kHz)[/size] vs that of the Equinox (5kHz). The lower frequency performs slightly better with higher conductive targets like silver.

Rich (Utah)

BBS and FBS .....Their LOWEST FREQUENCY is [size=x-large]1.5 KHz[/size]........

So BBS and FBS will perform MUCH BETTER on THICKER SILVER and COPPER coinage. (> 2 mm thick) ...matt

 

[metalpopper]

Multi-IQ copes with saltwater and beach conditions [size=x-large]ALMOST[/size] as well as BBS/FBS,.....( mmmm?????)..matt

Minelab's statement is kind of useless without knowing the BBS and FBS machine settings. For example BBS is WAY more stable than FBS on a wet saltwater beach with both machines adjusted for high performance. I'm not saying the Excalibur can't false but a FBS machine like an Se Pro adjusted for high performance probably falses 50 times to 1 BBS false. So how does Multi-IQ compare, the jury is still out. As for the silver comment okay a silver coin or ring is a big fat juicy silver signal but small silver jewelry, chains, ID between foil and nickel, and would benefit from a higher frequency, so again I think the jury is still out.

Multi-IQ on a saltwater beach, its GOLD I'm interested in silver is just parking meter money. If Multi-IQ is better on small gold BBS and FBS won't get a signal on, or deeper on gold vs BBS/FBS that's a win!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^​

Your highlighted statements are correct Charles, but I think readers should know why.

How many harmonics does BBS use?...17? (Long time ago since I've handled one.)

Compare that to BBS..28

It's the extra HIGHER harmonic frequencies that contribute to the 'chatter' factor.....but they also offer better sensitivity to thin section stuff..and lower conductivity items..gold chains etc.....matt

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Multi-IQ copes with saltwater and beach conditions [size=x-large]ALMOST[/size] as well as BBS/FBS,.....( mmmm?????)..matt

Minelab's statement is kind of useless without knowing the BBS and FBS machine settings. For example BBS is WAY more stable than FBS on a wet saltwater beach with both machines adjusted for high performance. I'm not saying the Excalibur can't false but a FBS machine like an Se Pro adjusted for high performance probably falses 50 times to 1 BBS false. So how does Multi-IQ compare, the jury is still out. As for the silver comment okay a silver coin or ring is a big fat juicy silver signal but small silver jewelry, chains, ID between foil and nickel, and would benefit from a higher frequency, so again I think the jury is still out.

Multi-IQ on a saltwater beach, its GOLD I'm interested in silver is just parking meter money. If Multi-IQ is better on small gold BBS and FBS won't get a signal on, or deeper on gold vs BBS/FBS that's a win!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^​

Your highlighted statements are correct Charles, but I think readers should know why.

How many harmonics does BBS use?...17? (Long time ago since I've handled one.)

Compare that to BBS..28

It's the extra HIGHER harmonic frequencies that contribute to the 'chatter' factor.....but they also offer better sensitivity to thin section stuff..and lower conductivity items..gold chains etc.....matt

FBS (Explorer, etc.) seem good on small/thin targets until you test one head to head with an actual high frequency machine. I recently assembled a bunch of small gold targets for testing, gold earrings, chains, and gold bits. My 56 kHz machine smacked every single target, the Explorer Se Pro couldn't detect any of them even if you rubbed the target on the coil. So there is much room for improvement on small gold which his why the Equinox interests me.

 

[UtahRich]

I’ve read lots of theories on what frequencies are being transmitted on FBS and BBS. I currently own one of each. Carl Moreland just answered some questions Debated here, complete with diagrams. Two sequential frequencies (not simultaneous) 3.125 kHz and 25kHz that can be offset by noise cancel to reduce effects of emi, but always remaining in a 1 to 8 ratio.

The Equinox is advertised at 5 kHz, 10kHz, 15kHz, 20kHz and 40kHz; different frequencies than its’ BBS and FBS siblings. Being that pairs of frequencies were used for BBS and FBS, the question for me is whether the Equinox can use more than a pair of frequencies for each of the search modes to optimize results?

Rich

 

[sgoss66]

Rich --

I agree with almost everything you wrote, but -- and I may have missed it -- but I didn't see where Mr. Moreland said the two frequencies were not "simultaneous..."

I guess maybe, there is some ambiguity regarding the word "simultaneous." By "simultaneous," what I personally take it to mean is that you don't have to "switch over" to a different setting or coil to run another frequency. A machine where you have to switch things to utilize other frequencies is, to me, a single-frequency machine -- just one that is capable of running at more than one frequency. Meanwhile, a machine that can run more than one frequency at one time -- i.e. without flipping a switch or changing out a coil -- is a multi-frequency machine. That's how I define it, and from that perspective, I think everyone would agree that FBS is "simultaneous multifrequency."

Now, whether the FBS coil transmits two pulses of two different frequencies at exactly precisely the same time -- who knows. But, either way, if the machine is taking information from both transmissions, and gleaning relevant information from both frequencies, or even "combining" them through software or algorithms, or whatever, to me that's still "simultaneous." In other words, the output to the user (tones, ID, etc.) is originating from data gleaned from two different frequencies being used by the detector "at the same time."

I think "simultaneous" is verbiage that is being added to try and further clarify the differences between different types of machines. In other words, some might call the Deus a "multi-frequency machine," but it's obviously not the same "multifrequency" as a V3i or an E-Trac. One runs one frequency until you swap out coils or flip a switch or whatever, and the other operates using more than one frequency "at once" -- and thus the additional word "simultaneous" is needed to differentiate between a machine like a Deus and a machine like an E-Trac.

I guess I'm just not sure why you said "not simultaneous."

Steve

 

[UtahRich]

Hi Steve,

I get what you're saying Steve.

In his diagrams, Carl demonstrates that the signals are not at the same time (simultaneous), but happening sequentially, one and then the other.

If you go back and look at the diagrams he posted, you can see that the transmission times of the two frequencies are not overlapping or on top of each other, but sequential, meaning there is one cycle of 3.125kHz followed by 8 cycles of 25kHz followed by 1 cycle of 3.125kHz followed by 8 cycles of 25kHz and so forth. They are all part of the same overall signal from the machine, but the signals aren't happening all at the same instant, they are sequential or serial, first one and then the other. The signal transmissions are very fast of course, 3,125 times a second and 25,000 times a second. You can see the wave forms in both drawings and on the oscilloscope; the upper picture being the voltage measurement and the lower picture being the current measurement.

If you think about it musically, (I'm no musician btw) all of the notes are NOT being played at the same time, rather you have 1 longer note of 3.125kHz followed by 8 shorter notes of 25kHz. It is a pattern. Of interest is the 1 to 8 ratio of the frequencies and the pattern of 1 cycle of 3.125kHz and 8 cycles of 25kHz. If you divide 8 into 25,000 you get 3,125, so you have 1 period of 3.125kHz (1x) and 1 period of 25kHz (8x), back and forth, back and forth. each period is 0.32 milliseconds long. So this pattern is repeating 1562.5 times a second. (hope the math is right)

I hope that makes sense. To most of us, it is all happening so fast, thousands of times a second, that it may appear to be happening all at once, but technically, it isn't.

I found all of this quite enlightening. Over the years, I've looked in the door of some of the heated online debates about BBS and FBS, but never really wanted to walk into the fray. It was quite refreshing to have Carl Moreland take the position of professor and explain it and demonstrate it. Ended the arguments.

Hope that helps.


Rich -

 

[UtahRich]

Last note Steve. Yes, you are right, the bbs and fbs and multi-IQ will be doing their multi frequency pattern without anybody having to go to the panel and change from freq a to b to c and so forth. The detector will handle it. It is just that to the engineers, which Carl is, the correct terminology is important.

Rich

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Hi Steve,

I get what you're saying Steve.

In his diagrams, Carl demonstrates that the signals are not at the same time (simultaneous), but happening sequentially, one and then the other.

If you go back and look at the diagrams he posted, you can see that the transmission times of the two frequencies are not overlapping or on top of each other, but sequential, meaning there is one cycle of 3.125kHz followed by 8 cycles of 25kHz followed by 1 cycle of 3.125kHz followed by 8 cycles of 25kHz and so forth. They are all part of the same overall signal from the machine, but the signals aren't happening all at the same instant, they are sequential or serial, first one and then the other. The signal transmissions are very fast of course, 3,125 times a second and 25,000 times a second. You can see the wave forms in both drawings and on the oscilloscope; the upper picture being the voltage measurement and the lower picture being the current measurement.

If you think about it musically, (I'm no musician btw) all of the notes are NOT being played at the same time, rather you have 1 longer note of 3.125kHz followed by 8 shorter notes of 25kHz. It is a pattern. Of interest is the 1 to 8 ratio of the frequencies and the pattern of 1 cycle of 3.125kHz and 8 cycles of 25kHz. If you divide 8 into 25,000 you get 3,125, so you have 1 period of 3.125kHz (1x) and 1 period of 25kHz (8x), back and forth, back and forth. each period is 0.32 milliseconds long. So this pattern is repeating 1562.5 times a second. (hope the math is right)

I hope that makes sense. To most of us, it is all happening so fast, thousands of times a second, that it may appear to be happening all at once, but technically, it isn't.

I found all of this quite enlightening. Over the years, I've looked in the door of some of the heated online debates about BBS and FBS, but never really wanted to walk into the fray. It was quite refreshing to have Carl Moreland take the position of professor and explain it and demonstrate it. Ended the arguments.

Hope that helps.


Rich -

Do you have a link to Carl's post(s)?