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More info in smart find???

B

Big Boys Hobbies

Well-known member
I see several post about people using smartfind over digital because it gives more "info" about a target. Im trying to understand just what info that is. Digital is very specific with its #'s. How can smart be better? Please help this Explorer II rookie out!! Thanks!!
 
Hi stoopstroop, I believe you can do fine with either but I personally like the smartfind screen better because I can watch how the target crosshair moves on the horizontal(ferrous) to determine whether to further investigate a signal. The vertical doesn't change much when you get a signal so I consider it more important so that is where you make a mental note of what targets hit in relation to. I can faster interpret what is going on with SF than trying to read numbers but you may have a little longer learning curve. If you decide to use smartfind just gather a lot of diff. items that you are going to encounter from coins, rings, etc and also junk items including as many types of pulltabs as possible and scan making a mental note of where it lands on the screen also try to learn the tone that goes with it. If you are searching for coins then you could focus on them first learning where there are positioned on the screen then little by little learning the others later. Just remember that an air test of a particular item may be skewed on the horizontal when you are actually detecting. Also on the SF you readily know how much disc. you are using and make adjustments if necessary, at least that is how it is on the Explorer, don't know if that is how it is on Exp II. Hope this helps, just my two cents. Just fire your questions off and I am sure you will make it fine. HH
Steve(MS)
 
Good post Steve and you point out some good reasons for SF and Digital. I was talking to a distributor for another brand and commenting on how the data is displayed. I mentioned that not all users want to see digital number and some like a meter. He remarked that we had better get use to digital numbers as that was where it was going. It seems like the new detectors are digital devices such as the X-Terra. I don't think I have seen a 2006 detector that is not digital.

There are some things I would like to see on an Explorer11 upgrade and it would be SF with a digital reading for ferrous/conductive/size on the SF screen. I wonder how many people use the expanded digital screen? I would also like to see depth indicated all the time even if we can use modulated audio and most likely do better anyhow. I have yet to see any depth indicator that was accurate. I prefer to use the audio gain setting and just go by the strength of the audio. It would sure be nice to see VCO pinpointing.

Have a great Sunday,
 
Cody - If two targets read the same on digital say a quarter and a large piece of aluminum, will the tone be the same? In other words does the tone for 1/29 sound the same no matter what the target is?
Thanks
AK in KY
 
Yes, keep in mind that the digital readings represent the location of the cross hairs. If Iron Mask is on they represent the iron mask pattern. If Iron Mask is OFF they represent the Smartfind pattern.

Iron Mask often has a lot of PR junk by retailers as if we can work through iron by masking iron. Iron Mask blacks or clears ferrous/conductive zones as seen on the IM screen. If we black an area of the screen we MASK target that fall in that area. If we clear that area we UNMASK those targets.

Iron Mask is another level of discrimination but rejects all levels of conductivity/ferrous in specific zones of the display. It could be compared to having two different Smartfind screen so we could set two different discrimination patterns and switch between them. IM is one discrimination pattern and Smartfind is another. (We store additional patterns in the S memory locations with the exception of Iron Mask which cannot be store in an S memory location.)

Hope this helps and have a great Sunday,
 
Thanks for all the great replies to my ? It helped/confirmed alot.

I still dont understand just what info SF gives you that Digital doesnt. Since digital represents where a target will hit on the SF screen by its #'s and all the other info on both screes is the same, what info is there I am missing about the target? I personally like to use both before I dig. I am NOT considered a high speed ground coverer though. ha ha I check and recheck my other rechecks to try every angle. I think its called being anal....lol

Thanks again!!
 
The vast majority of people interpret data better when it is presented in graphical form. If you just have a list of numbers it will probably not tell you very much, but put it on a graph and you can see if any patterns exist.

Same thing with the explorer, if you watch the Smart find target icon you can see where the the icon is bouncing, which is extremely important on determining whether to dig iffy targets.

The two-axis graphical display and associated sounds is one of the most powerful features of the explorer.

It seems that there are alot of users who wish to rely on the numbers; I will dig a 05,23 but not a 05,24; or try use tight discrimination patterns to eliminate iffy signals: I'm certain that they are missing many targets. But... If they are still having fun, so be it.
 
Chris(SoCenWI) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The vast majority of people interpret data better
> when it is presented in graphical form. If you
> just have a list of numbers it will probably not
> tell you very much, but put it on a graph and you
> can see if any patterns exist.
>
> Same thing with the explorer, if you watch the
> Smart find target icon you can see where the the
> icon is bouncing, which is extremely important on
> determining whether to dig iffy targets.
>
> The two-axis graphical display and associated
> sounds is one of the most powerful features of the
> explorer.
>
> It seems that there are alot of users who wish to
> rely on the numbers; I will dig a 05,23 but not a
> 05,24; or try use tight discrimination patterns to
> eliminate iffy signals: I'm certain that they are
> missing many targets. But... If they are still
> having fun, so be it.


The #'s shown on the digital screen exactly represent where the crosshairs hit on the smart screen. (as i understand it) So in your estimation the bouncing of crosshairs/#'s you speak of would be the same bouncing weather on SS or DS.

If you cant test a few coins and remember that a 00 / 29 is a quarter and a 10 / 05 is usually a nickel your not gonna remember where on the Smart screen a nickle hits either. I mean learning a few # combos isn't any harder than learning where they hit on the SS.

I do agree 100% with the audio part. The more i hear good targets the better i can understand what the EX II is trying to tell my slow learning brain.

I'm still trying to understand what the smart screen tells you the DS doesn't.
 
I think Chris was trying to key on the following part of his answer:
Same thing with the explorer, if you watch the
> Smart find target icon you can see where the the
> icon is bouncing, which is extremely important on
> determining whether to dig iffy targets

AK in KY
 
You are right that the numbers just reflect the XY position of the target icon. And you can sweep a coin under the coil and see where it hits and try to dig signals that hit similarily. But, and this is where the experienced users keep harping on everyone: Deep targets, targets in noisy environments, targets next to trash may only hit close to the "RIGHT" area one sweep in five and may never hit in a exactly the "RIGHT" position at all. Seeing how most locations have been hit hard over the years it is mainly these iffier targets that remain.

Yes you can remember the numbers and dig everything close, but it is much better just to look at the target crosshairs and see if it is close to where think it should be. I generally dig anything that hits from the top of the screen 1/4 inch from the left to way across the right and down about a third from the top. But with many exceptions for area, depth, etc. That alone covers alot of screen real estate.

Nickels are even worse. If they occasionally hit in the nickel area, and the bounce is to the left and up, occasionally right into the nail area this often means nickel next to iron (Golddigger clued me in to how nickels will climb). If they hit more randomly such as up but not left they are probably trash.

And some targets will hit in areas that I would not normally dig but just "Sound" nice, sometimes snag some fat IHs or interesting non-coin finds.

Bottom line is you could remember all these numbers, which is probably close to impossible, or just watch the crosshairs and if it is in a nice neighborhood just dig it, don't look for it to hit at a specific address.

Chris
 
I somewhat agree with you statement about being close to thrash and bouncing. That is where i try to listen to the audio more and visual less. I found a clad quarter today right next to a pop top that was bouncing in both SS and DS. It sounded fairly good but was visually not a good target. I dug it merely on sound and pulled a 84 quarter outta the hole, rescanned it and pulled a crummy pop tab out also. Im learning at least.

The more I use this EX II I think I might be better off just turning the visual off and trying to learn sound better. Ha ha

BTW......i think trashy parks are a horrible way to learn to use a detector.....lol
 
Tape a cut piece of clear plastic(like off a zip lock bag) over the display and then use a couple of different color fine point magic markers and place dots on the places where coins, or anything else air tests at. For instance place a dot where zinc pennies, large pulltabs, pulltabs with beaver tails, and a nickel(use one you have dug up), and where a half and silver dollar land. Just simply memorize where quarters and dimes land. After doing that you can simply watch anything that lands on a horizontal equivalent(usually to the left)and make a decision whether to dig or not.
Steve(MS)
 
Cody,

In the final analysis Minelab recognized that different people have different feelings about what they like best. People should listen to the thoughts of others and then experiment to find for themselves what they like best.

Now here is the ridiculous part:
The digital technique has great merit for a number of reasons that I will not go into. But, consider how annoying it would be to watch a TV screen where the digital representation of the signal were displayed instead of the graphical representation.

I admit that this is not a fair comparison. The point is that there are times when one approach is clearly better than the other. My personal feeling is that the target representation of the Explorer falls into the gray region where it is not obvious whether digital or graphical is better. Therefore, each user has to make that determination for themselves.

HH,
Glenn
 
Chris - I read a lot of your post and have learned much from them. After reading the post under the title -16 on the other Minelab forum I am totally confused. I would like to hear your opinion on the subject if you care to put your dog in that fight. Not really a fight just a good discussion.

AK in KY
 
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