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Moisture Conductivity Question

jasonak

New member
What is the difference between dry ground, ground saturated with fresh water, and ground saturated with salt water's effect on a metal detector and how it perceives what a target is.
I have heard that saltwater can carry a slight electric charge. When you use the term "moisture conductivity", Are you referring to the electrical conductivity of the ground or something else. I have definitely noticed a difference in how my detector operates over dry ground versus wet ground. Saltwater soaked ground definitely being the worst for my MXT's operation. I know it was spoken of in the manual, and that there is a switch setting for salt soaked ground. I have still had trouble with the MXT in the salt mode. Although this does not have much to do with my question. I simply want a better understanding of waters effects on the operation of the MXT, And maybe some tips on better taking advantage of the MXT's power in conditions that are wet. Thanks in Advance. HH Jason
 
I havent been following the topic. It is an interesting question to me. I will go back in the posts and see what I can dig up. Odd? no response. I saw the previous thread on this subject which is why I came up with this question. You may have answered this a million times over. Just a newbie on the subject. Well, thanks anyways. HH Jason AK
 
Jason, Although I live in land-locked Iowa, and can't report on the effect of salt water on the MXT's operation, I will tell you that it might well be the mineralization of the "salt" instead of the "water" that is causing your "less than expected" results with the MXT. I know that most detectors are adversely affected by mineralization, causing a loss of depth and sensitivity. On the other hand, during the past 33 years of coin-hunting on land, I have always found wet conditions to intensify the depth and sensitivity of all my machines. The mineralization is relatively low in my neck of the woods and I always look forward to hunting after a rain or after the snow melt in early spring. Not only does the damp earth maximize the magnetic field produced by the search coil, the digging is much easier too! So, in answer to your question, just as with electrical current, magnetic lines of flux are also intensified with the higher conductive "wet soil" as opposed to dry. Hope this helps. HH Randy
 
Jason, early this morning our local metal detecting club had our monthly Club Member Outing. During the course of the day I had the pleasure to take a few breaks and discuss various detector/detecting topics with some of the newer members. Not just new to the club, but new to the hobby. Newer? Yes, some have been infrequent to only moderately active for 1-4 years, but even they still consider themselves 'new' to the hobby because they still don't understand their detector. Matter of fact, on days like today I am amazed at how many don't understand some of the very simple things many of us consider 'basics!'

One of the topics that came up had to do with 'wetness' and the effects it might have. So, if you don't mind, I'll lend my views to your query:

"What is the difference between dry ground, ground saturated with fresh water, and ground saturated with salt water's effect on a metal detector and how it perceives what a target is."... Actually, you've included three 'best case' scenarios, and at the same time you've left out a couple of important ingredients in these recipes. That is, you have referred to a waterless state, a freshwater environment, and a saltwater environment, but you have failed to stipulate what the ground mineral make-up or mineralization level is!

So, for the fun of it (and to help get an understanding of water's effects and/or potential effects), let's look at this question a little differently first. Let's re-state the question to be" "What is the difference between a non-wet environment, a fresh water environment and a salt water environment?"

To answer that we would need something like a non-metal tub about 3'-4'square, and have it resting about 2-feet off the ground so that there would not be any mineralization to factor into the test.

Use a plastic tub that is at least 6" deep, and 8"-12" preferably, and use a Styrofoam block to keep a coin positioned about 3" below the top of the tub.

Affix the 2"-3" foam block with glue to the center of the empty tub. Place a coin on top of the foam block. Turn the detector on with the settings you would plan to search with and sweep the coil over the tub. Keep it level with the top of the tub. You can tightly string some twine across the top to maintain a uniform coil presentation and not 'dip' below the top edge of the tub. Note the audio response from the coin. Compare it with the single you get when sweeping over the empty tub without the coin on the foam block.

That 'testing' shouldn't take too long! :)

Next, fill the plastic tub to within about an inch of the top of the tub without the coin on top of the foam block. Now you have a 3"-4" square plastic tub filled with freshwater. Again, turn on your detector and sweep over the tub of fresh water and note any effects. Then, place the coin on top of the foam block and it is now about 3" below the surface of the water line, in a total freshwater environment. As before, turn the detector on w/o changes and sweep over the tub and not any responses.

Finally, remove the coin. Add an ample amount of salt water to taste :puke: such that it would come close to duplicating the salinity of the saltwater environment you have in mind. Remember, there's a LOT of water in that tub so you'll need a heavy dose of salt! Stir well to dissolve it all.

Once again, w/o the coin in the water, sweep the coil over the top of the plastic tub and note any responses you might hear.

The last step at this point would be to place the coin on top of the foam block and re-scan the coin in the salty environment and sweep over it to note any difference in response.

Try this with your discrimination set at the minimum setting, too!



"I have heard that saltwater can carry a slight electric charge. When you use the term "moisture conductivity", Are you referring to the electrical conductivity of the ground or something else.".... Do you ever take a bath in salt water? I am sure that ever since we were young our parents and educators have told us not to use any electrical appliances when we're in the bath, shower, pool, etc. Why? Because water can carry a charge (conduct electricity) regardless if it is fresh or salty.

"Moisture conductivity" is just that. The ability for water to conduct electricity. But it is also true that when we make the distinction for the water to be 'salty' or 'salt saturated,' we are adding to the conductive properties of the water.

Usually, you're electromagnetic field won't have any serious challenges from only fresh water, but salt water is definitely a low-conductive matter that we might have to deal with in our course of detecting.


"I have definitely noticed a difference in how my detector operates over dry ground versus wet ground.".... Yep! Watered-down ground can be a problem to work as well as occasionally a pleasure to hunt.


"Saltwater soaked ground definitely being the worst for my MXT's operation.".... I, too, have had more challenges getting good performance out of my MXT's from saltwater soaked ground, but not in every case. Here in Oregon, the coastal beaches I hunt from time to time are quite mineralized. As you get out into the 'wet zone' you have to deal with the negative mineralized ground and the positive conductive wet salts. What helps me the most with the MXT is using the right coil for the conditions.


"I know it was spoken of in the manual, and that there is a switch setting for salt soaked ground. I have still had trouble with the MXT in the salt mode.".... As have I, but remember, you might be dealing with some bad ground as well as the low-conductive salts.


"Although this does not have much to do with my question. I simply want a better understanding of waters effects on the operation of the MXT, And maybe some tips on better taking advantage of the MXT's power in conditions that are wet.".... Well, here's what I do. First, I make sure that when I am beach hunting, fresh or salt water, I try to stay in a uniform strata of ground and water. I will hunt parallel with the water, as a rule, rather than towards-and-away. I frequently check both my ground balance setting and my discrimination setting as I move to the next 'zone' closer to or farther from the wet area.

I almost exclusively use a Double-D (widescan) coil for me searches. In the open beach areas I favor the round, 10" EXcelerator. Due to the high mineralization we have at the coast, I usually GB in the Normal mode and then I 'Lock' the established GB. In the DRY coastal beach sand, just like working our nasty, highly mineralized freshwater beaches near Portland, I set the Discriminate level at 'minimum' to allow the most punch.

As I get into the 'wet zone' on a freshwater site, I know that I need to check and adjust the Ground Balance. On the saltwater coastal environment, I want to make sure I have an adequate GB for the high mineralization, then I use the Discriminate control and gently increase it just to the point where I cancel (reject or discriminate) the low-conductive wet salts.

To accomplish this, I bob the coil towards and away from the surface, going from about 6" down to
 
Monte,

The following is intended to clarify some points on the conductivity of water.


CONDUCTIVITY

Conductivity is determined by the number of "relatively free" electrons or ions that are available to move under the influence of an electric field. The "electric field" of a metal detector comes about as a result of the changing "magnetic field" of the search coil.


CONDUCTIVITY OF WATER

* Pure water (such as distilled) has very very few "relatively free" electrons or ions. For this reason pure water is a very poor conductor of current.

* Water with minerals dissolved in it has more "relatively free" electrons or ions present. For this reason is can be a moderate conductor of current.

* When salt is dissolved in pure water, then there are many "relatively free" ions to conduct current. The greater the salinity, then the greater the conductivity.

HH,
Glenn
 
This was the information I was looking for. Thank you all. I am sure this info will help me immensely in the future. Most of the ground I am hunting is highly mineralized and it stands to reason then why I have trouble in those grounds especially when the ground is wet. However I have a few places I have hunted with lower mineralization that I have noticed the hunting does improve when the ground is saturated in fresh water. I definitely have a much better understanding of how moisture effects the ground I am hunting. I have a lot of learning to go and this is definitely important. Thanks Monte, Captain Kirk, and Digger. HH Jason
 
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