Minelab...If They Still Make Excaliburs Then Wouldn't That Mean They Still Make 8 & 10" Tornados?

[Critterhunter]

I was just thinking- you can get an Excal with the 8 or 10" Tornado, so I would guess that means Minelab still is going to make those coils to put on those at the factory even though they told us they'll stop making them at the end (end?) of December. I wonder if Minelab will sell us one of these coils without the connector since it's being made that way to hardwire to Excals. I could put a connector on it myself to use on my GT. I'm hoping to pick up a 8" Tornado by the deadline anyway (end of Dec?) because Minelab said they will make and sell any Tornados or GTs up until then. Of course I'm sure some dealers have these machines and coils in stock and might have them sitting around new to sell for another year or so if you search. Same deal with the discontinued SE Pro. 3 year warranties means I'd expect 4 years out repairs since a unit might not sell for a year or so here, and I doubt Minelab would stop fixing the SE or GT as soon as the warranty runs out as that's bad business image if you just bought one new this year and 4 years down the road you can't get it fixed anymore.

 

[deepdiger60]

Critter i dont think so selling the coils without a connector i tryed to get just a new control box for the GT from Minelab and this was there reply .

Hi Jimmy, new detectors are sold as complete units. If there

 

[OldBeechnut]

Critter, we may have to stock up on the coils unless we go Sunray or SEF, I know I just got a extra 10 inch...224.oo Ouch!

Been looking for used but none out there...And the Bad is the excaliburs after about 5 years and a lot of saltwater huntiing

need that fix, on the coil and headphones, specially the newer models...I have came up with a fix for the headphoneside,
...
one can do themself's...but the coils..gonna be a problem I see. Or you send it in to ML....

 

[dewcon4414]

Odd they wont sell you those coils.... but have no trouble selling a coil for any other of their detectors. Thats like having to buy another ET with another coil.... duh? But.... that may well be next lol. A lot of issues come up when a detector is no longer available. Im still betting a pay check we will see a NEW Xcal once they are happy the CTX is working well in the water.

Dew

 

[Critterhunter]

OBN, you are the man when it comes to Excal mods. People in BBS circles owe you a ton of gratitude for spear heading mods and fixes for the Excals, and you are a wealth of information.

Far as the Tornados go, yep...Very hard to find a 8 or 10" used, which speaks well of how good of coils they are. I'd say the 8" is even harder to find used than the 10". Hey, anybody know....Could you order an Elite or GT with the 8" Tornado on it or did they only come with the 10"? Even if you could get one new with the 8" I bet most opted for the 10" and that would make sense as to how hard the 8" is to come by used.

I posted a question for Ralph at Sunray in his forum as to if he plans to still make the S-5, 8", and S-12 BBS coils. I would figure he would since the Excals are still being made and the S-12 for one seems very popular among Excal water hunters. Wonder if Coiltek plans to keep making their WOT and other BBS coils as well? And once again I'd figure they would because the WOT also seems very popular among Excal water hunters. Throw into the mix all the various coil compatible Sovereigns made for 20 years and there is a huge market of potential coil buyers out there, discontinued GT or not.

I suspect Detech will continue to make BBS coils as they make coils like the SEF for some long discontinued and never nearly as popular detectors as the Sovereign is. Even if Detech stopped making BBS versions of their coils I bet if a group buy through Kellyco was pre-paid Detech would probably happily run off a batch to fill and order.

I'd encourage anybody who can swing the cash to get your 8 or 10" Tornados while Minelab will still make them to fill orders up to I think the last day of December. Way I think I read it so long as you get your order in with a dealer by the deadline Minelab will produce a GT, SE, or Tornados to ship to them. After that it's either used (good luck with that) or finding a dealer who has new ones lurking around in his stock room.

Once I get my hands on an 8" Tornado and a 13" Ultimate I can rest easier. Those are the two coils I want to complete my line up for my GT. After I aquire those then I'm going to start picking up some used Sovereigns. First purchase is going to be the original as I'm hearing some very interesting things privately about it's depth potential that I want to investigate for myself. I plan to down the road have a fleet of Sovereigns, like say 3 to 5, sitting around, and might even try to eventually collect every coil made for them (besides the heavy old 8 and 10" BBS coils made before the Tornados). I'm thinking WOT, maybe a 12 and 14" Excelerator, the 4.5x7, the 10x14, and a few others. For sure though I want an 8" Tornado and 13" Ultimate in my arsenal.

By the way, just ran across a blurb in the classified section where a guy with a long history (by the looks of it) of fixing Sovereigns says the only potential aging issue that might need "tuned up" on a Sovereign is the large capacitors on the board. Otherwise there really ain't much to need serviced on them. Makes sense, as I know capacitors can degrade over time due to the insulation between the charged surfaces in them breaking down with age. Just throwing that out there for anybody who might have a non-working or not very stable Sovereign laying around. You might want to find somebody who knows how to solder to throw the large capacitors (should be blue I think) back on the board and see if that corrects any issues. If you find your unit isn't allowing you to run at as high of sensitivity levels as in the past or is somewhat fussy then this could be the problem and a real easy fix.

 

[foiled again tab hunter]

OBN, you are the man when it comes to Excal mods. People in BBS circles owe you a ton of gratitude for spear heading mods and fixes for the Excals, and you are a wealth of information.

Far as the Tornados go, yep...Very hard to find a 8 or 10" used, which speaks well of how good of coils they are. I'd say the 8" is even harder to find used than the 10". Hey, anybody know....Could you order an Elite or GT with the 8" Tornado on it or did they only come with the 10"? Even if you could get one new with the 8" I bet most opted for the 10" and that would make sense as to how hard the 8" is to come by used.

I posted a question for Ralph at Sunray in his forum as to if he plans to still make the S-5, 8", and S-12 BBS coils. I would figure he would since the Excals are still being made and the S-12 for one seems very popular among Excal water hunters. Wonder if Coiltek plans to keep making their WOT and other BBS coils as well? And once again I'd figure they would because the WOT also seems very popular among Excal water hunters. Throw into the mix all the various coil compatible Sovereigns made for 20 years and there is a huge market of potential coil buyers out there, discontinued GT or not.

I suspect Detech will continue to make BBS coils as they make coils like the SEF for some long discontinued and never nearly as popular detectors as the Sovereign is. Even if Detech stopped making BBS versions of their coils I bet if a group buy through Kellyco was pre-paid Detech would probably happily run off a batch to fill and order.

I'd encourage anybody who can swing the cash to get your 8 or 10" Tornados while Minelab will still make them to fill orders up to I think the last day of December. Way I think I read it so long as you get your order in with a dealer by the deadline Minelab will produce a GT, SE, or Tornados to ship to them. After that it's either used (good luck with that) or finding a dealer who has new ones lurking around in his stock

Once I get my hands on an 8" Tornado and a 13" Ultimate I can rest easier. Those are the two coils I want to complete my line up for my GT. After I aquire those then I'm going to start picking up some used Sovereigns. First purchase is going to be the original as I'm hearing some very interesting things privately about it's depth potential that I want to investigate for myself. I plan to down the road have a fleet of Sovereigns, like say 3 to 5, sitting around, and might even try to eventually collect every coil made for them (besides the heavy old 8 and 10" BBS coils made before the Tornados). I'm thinking WOT, maybe a 12 and 14" Excelerator, the 4.5x7, the 10x14, and a few others. For sure though I want an 8" Tornado and 13" Ultimate in my arsenal.

By the way, just ran across a blurb in the classified section where a guy with a long history (by the looks of it) of fixing Sovereigns says the only potential aging issue that might need "tuned up" on a Sovereign is the large capacitors on the board. Otherwise there really ain't much to need serviced on them. Makes sense, as I know capacitors can degrade over time due to the insulation between the charged surfaces in them breaking down with age. Just throwing that out there for anybody who might have a non-working or not very stable Sovereign laying around. You might want to find somebody who knows how to solder to throw the large capacitors (should be blue I think) back on the board and see if that corrects any issues. If you find your unit isn't allowing you to run at as high of sensitivity levels as in the past or is somewhat fussy then this could be the problem and a real easy fix.

Critterhunter you mentioned in this quote about the heavy BBS coils & the Tornados coils....can you tell by my pics which coil do I have ?...I just bought this detector used & I can't find it in the manual.....Thanks...Tab.

 

[OldBeechnut]

One way to tell what year your detector is by pulling back the rubber black shrink boot...and looking where the coil wires comes in and noting the colors of the wiring...I'm guessing but it looks like the 2003 area from the chrome sticker....the new coils are thinner..looks like the regular stock bbs...let me know the colors and I can tell you...the year or close..also you will need to silicon the black boot back in place, just a dab of silicon will doo...

 

[Rick(ND)]

n/t

 

[foiled again tab hunter]

n/t

Thanks Rick.....

 

[Critterhunter]

Critterhunter you mentioned in this quote about the heavy BBS coils & the Tornados coils....can you tell by my pics which coil do I have ?...I just bought this detector used & I can't find it in the manual.....Thanks...Tab.

Look below...
Your Coil...
[attachment 251256 Excal2012pics002.JPG]
My 10" Tornado...(It's resting on top of the 12x10 for a size comparison in another post about the two)...
[attachment 251257 TornadoOver12x10.jpg]
See how the Tornado has the top square sticker? They say "Tornado" on that on the newer/lighter/less thick 8" and 10" coils that first came out with the Elite. It's hard to tell from your pic but your coil does look taller than my Tornado. Besides being heavier and not as good of coils from what I hear, the old BBS coils on the Sovereigns would have a "BBS" sticker on them. I think they say "BBS 800" for the 8" coil and BBS 1000 for the 10"?

Then again I think it was Ron who posted a pic of an 8" BBS coil a while back that I think we all thought looked suspiciously like the newer Tornado version. I'm thinking perhaps Minelab was still sticking the old stickers on the first productions of the Tornado until maybe they ran out of the old BBS stickers? Then again not sure if some newer Excaliburs came with the newer 8 or 10" Tornados but for some odd reason Minelab was still throwing the old BBS stickers on those too.

I know a Excalibur I have in my possession right now that I was doing something to for somebody has the new Tornado sticker on it or at least I didn't notice any old BBS sticker on it. I'll take a look at it and report back if his Tornado has different stickers on it. This is a very new Excalibur and far as I remember the coil stickers and of course coils are identical (the Excal to my GT's coil). Only difference in the coil to my GT's Tornado is the Excal has a neon yellow coil cover on the bottom. Makes zero sense to do that. What good is the bright color on the bottom of the coil? They should make the coils neon on top if they want to improve visibility for in the water. Maybe they are making neon yellow (green?) coil covers with the intent to make the coils the same color down the road here? (Hint...Hint...To Minelab)

PS- I have read some old posts in the past where people said they found the old 8" (7.25" really) BBS coils were deeper and more stable for them than the 10" BBS coils, and I know a friend does great with the old 8" BBS coil on his Excal.

 

[foiled again tab hunter]

n/t

 

[Critterhunter]

I was just looking at the new Excalibur I have in my possession right now. It of course has a 10" Tornado on it but the sticker is different than my 10" Tornado for my GT. His says "BBS Technology" in small print on it and nowhere that I can see does it say "Tornado". But, it's pretty obvious what the older 8 and 10" coils look like as I think they all say 800 BBS or 1000 BBS in big letters on them, not to mention being heavy and by the looks of your 10" coil are taller. Another friend had me do a few things to his older Excal with the old 8" BBS coil. I had that coil in my hand and for sure it's a boat anchor for such a small 7 & 1/4" coil. In fact, I've used that machine on some land hunts (did well with it too) and from memory it weighs a bunch more than my other friend's new Excal with the 10" Tornado. Not sure if it's just the heavier old BBS coil or if the POD or shaft is also lighter on newer Excals? Old Beech Nut, you have any info on that? Is the extra weight just all in the coil of the older Excals versus new ones?

By the way, doing a video to compare the depth of the new Excal with 10" Tornado to my GT with 10" Tornado. It's only going to be an air test but just the same it should prove interesting, with a ruler in the foreground. Going to test them both at full volume in both disc and PP mode and at full manual sensitivity (low EMI environment). I want to see if the blurbs I've read of Excals being a little less hot than the Elite/GT due to them being based (I guess?) on older Sovereigns is true or not. I think I've read in the past the original Excals were based on the XS model Sovereign, but also think I've heard that newer Excals are based on something after that. Anybody know either way? I might also test the Excal's sensitivity to some tiny targets versus my GT, as the GT is said to be a bit more sensitivity to small stuff than prior Sovereign models. Should be interesting to see how it all pans out. Either way, ain't no doubt the Excal is king of the hill when it comes to a water detector. Good reason for that too.

 

[Rick(ND)]

Just heard if you want a 8 or 10 inch Tornado coil for the Sovereigns you better get your order in as they are also being discontinued as of Jan 1.

 

[Neil]

Just heard if you want a 8 or 10 inch Tornado coil for the Sovereigns you better get your order in as they are also being discontinued as of Jan 1.

Rick if this is from a good source we can pretty much forget the idea of a revamped Sov coming out. At least one that would use the existing coils and meters. there are still plenty of good used coils available for the Sov and they will be around for years to come so sov users shouldnt worry. If I didnt do any wading the 8" coinsearch is still a great coil and would feel confident buying one, even though they are pretty old.

 

[Rick(ND)]

This info is from my Minelab dealers newsletter I got from the dist about not being able to get any coils after the first of the year so they would like all the dealers to order what they think they want to stock before the end of the month.

I still think Minelab will have a few of these coils they will keep for warranty work on the GT and the Excalibur's for a while and I am sure a few dealers may have a few in stock until they are gone. As much as I like Minelab to keep building the Sovereigns as some of us know what they can do I don't expect them to make anything to takes its place as I feel they will do more with the CTX and possibly make one with less features and less money, That is just my opinion what could happen.

 

[Critterhunter]

Rick, yes...the Minelab announcement they released a month or two back where they said the SE and GT will be discontinued also said in that letter that the Tornados would also be discontinued. That's the point of why I posted this thread- Asking that, since obviously they still make Excaliburs and those have the 8 or 10" Tornado on them, then could that possibly mean we could still buy a Tornado from Minelab that was meant for Excal production and solder our own coil plug on it. They have to still be making these coils for the Excal, so that would mean they have them in stock but just lacking a plug since they are hard wired to the Excal. I doubt they'd be willing to see us a coil for our Sovereigns. Probably only way to get another Tornado would be to send a Sovereign in for a repair and they find out the coil is bad. Might be a sneaky way to get another coil, by shipping them the machine with a known bad Tornado on it, but probably expensive to go that route.

I bet there are some dealers stocking up on SEs, GTs, and Tornados, because a year from now as the supplies dry up at other dealers the price might become a premium to get your hands on a new one of these products. I think we are already seeing that price increase, as a friend has been shopping for a used SE Pro and the prices seem to be a bit higher, despite it being fall when prices normaly fall somewhat on used machines. I know the price he finally found one for is a good bit higher than what I've seen SE Pros go for but at least he's got a transferable warranty with two years left on the one he bought.

Certain Sovereign models always seemed to take a premium buck to buy used and are hard to find. I suspect the same thing to happen with it. Wouldn't even surprise me if used Tornados start going for more than they did new, especially the 8" coil. People have the option of the 12x10, S-12, or Ultimate instead of the 10" Tornado, but when it comes to the 8" Tornado there isn't still other competing coils being made with the possble exception of the 8" Sun Ray if they continue to make those. And that's a true 8" coil, where as the Tornado from what most say makes a fantastic trash coil being only 7.25" in size. I have no doubt the Sun Ray is probably excellent in trash too though, but you rarely hear of people using that coil. Seems less popular than the S-12 or the S-5 maybe.

 

[Neil]

This info is from my Minelab dealers newsletter I got from the dist about not being able to get any coils after the first of the year so they would like all the dealers to order what they think they want to stock before the end of the month.

I still think Minelab will have a few of these coils they will keep for warranty work on the GT and the Excalibur's for a while and I am sure a few dealers may have a few in stock until they are gone. As much as I like Minelab to keep building the Sovereigns as some of us know what they can do I don't expect them to make anything to takes its place as I feel they will do more with the CTX and possibly make one with less features and less money, That is just my opinion what could happen.

I agree with you Rick and glad to hear that its news from minelab. ctx3030 for me next, probably in the spring. gonna still keep my etrac