Military button ID help...lets see how good you folks are!

[WessThompson]

Hey folks. Well I am trying to identify yet another find I recently made.

I found this one-piece button the same day, and on the same site I found the lions head buckle I posted on the best finds forum.

I am guessing this button dates between 1770 and 1812 based on the finds I have made there. However, most buttons didn't have backmarks until the 1790's or so...so it likely dates from 1800-1812.

I have found a few royal artillery 1812 buttons, as well as other british 1812 items on this site. So my initial thoughts were it might be a British military button dating to this same period. I have found both army and naval items from the 1812 period on this site.

However, the backmark on this button reads "Murphy, Hoeys Court Dublin" which is obviously an Irish backmark.

Could this be an Irish military button from this period??? Or a British button with an Irish maker??? I am almost certain it is military, and not a livery button. I have never heard of a livery button being found here in Ontario, Canada...and this button doesn't have the usual characteristics of a livery button. Note the scalloped looking edge.

As you can see the button was once silver gilted...and has an "R" below a crown. There may have once been a letter beside the R, that I can no longer see due to the gilt being missing...but I can't be sure.

The button is quite large...and measures 25.83mm or thereabouts.

Can anyone help me on this? I have shown it to many collectors, etc...and nobody can tell me what it is...although the general feeling by everyone is that it is in fact military.

At this point, nobody has been able to help me ID this...although MANY folks have looked.

Thanks very much

Wess

 

[Tioga]

I'm certainly no expert, but the crown on the button appears to be St. Edward's Crown (more popularly known as the Queen Victoria Crown) which was used from 1837-1901. The fact that it is silver gilt, and not silver, also indicates that it was possibly produced after 1830.

At that size, it would have come off of either a great coat, front fastening of a Guard's scarlet tunic or an Officers Service Dress jacket.

I don't think there was any lettering beside the "R" because the crown is centered above it. If there were two letters, the crown would be off center of the "R".

Hope that helps you find the answer. What I've described above is based solely on what I've read on the internet while doing other button research, so it's possible I could be way off.

 

[WessThompson]

...you are in fact correct. I checked out the button under good lighting, and I see no "embossing" so to speak indicating another letter beside the "R"...so, I am sure it was just the "R" as well.

As for the dates...I don't think that is correct.
I have not found an item dating later than 1815 at this site...withthe majority falling into the 1812 period. Of course, it's not that far off, so I could see how it's possible to find something from 1830 or so....but I haven't.

I don't think the crown is queen victoria's.

There were LOTS of buttons with silver gilt that date back much earlier than 1830. Most of the 1812 officers buttons are silver gilt. Brit buttons at least. I've seen earlier buttons in silver gilt as well.

I appreciate your response.

Wess