Something that has confused me right along ever since I got my Sovereign .......Today made mre more aware of this than ever since I dug a BUNCH of copper Pennies ......When hunting with my E Trac , I have my Pennies scrimmed out because they have their own Conducktive numbers in the E Trac's numbering system .....Now I hunt with my Soverereign , and my my copper Pennies , and my Quarters are the same number 180 ..... My Copper Pennies will jump around a little bit from 179 to 180 , and in a lot of cases so will my clad Quarters ...... Why are the numbers so close on the Sovereign ......I now understand more why Minelab changed the numbering sequence when they made the E Trac .... It 's not making sense to me especially when we're talking about the same coin when checked on both machines ....?????? .....Being able to scrim out Pennies is a HUGE benefit to me ......Jim
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Meter Numbers ....??????
- Thread starter synthnut
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
Most machines can't split coins apart in ID like that. Still, those peasants among us have found other ways to split hairs on coins when we want to. Watch how quickly the machine gets to 180. If it trickles down to 178 or 179 here and there it's probably a copper penny. If it slightly goes down to 179 or at least takes it's time getting to 180 and staying there then it's probably a clad dime. If it quickly jumps on 180 and stays then it's a clad quarter. If you set your meter on a silver dime to where it just hardly hits 181 every other sweep then when you hit deep silver (even rings) it will hit 181 like every other sweep. Still yet, the audio can tell you the difference between all these coins if you are real good at it. My QXT Pro put all coins into one zone or VDI "number", yet I could more often than not tell each and every one of this coins apart, including silver dimes and quarters from each other. It takes experience, and I'm still getting better on that on my GT.
Still, I don't like or use coin identification in that high of respect (in terms of the Explorer or Etrac) on coins when I'm looking for oldies. I go mainly by the depth. Once I get a feel for how deep clads are at a spot I start looking for coin signals as deep as the deepest clads or deeper. If clads get down to say 5" then I'll only dig coins that deep or deeper. Easy to tell how deep they are by sound, and so I never liked or used depth meters on my prior machines that much either. And, for the shallower ones than that if they hit 181 here and there or have the softer/sweeter sound to them I'll dig them just in case they are a shallow oldie that hasn't sunk for some reason. Believe me, you'll *know* you've got a silver coin under your coil once you've heard the first one on a Sovereign.
Besides all that, all one has to do is Cruise the Explorer and Etrac forums and in no time you'll find the most common and strongest advice always given for those machines is DON'T GO BY THE VDI! Reason being that on any machine coins at depth can and do read like other coins. I've dug wheat signals that were silvers on my Explorers as I have when I thought they were silvers on other machines. Ground minerals, moisture content, how it's laying in the ground, even how sloppy you swing at a target that day can and will make one coin look like the other. There are other tools you can use to cipher out if the coin is "dig worthy". Don't just let the meter on your Etrac tell you, because I promise you you'll be missing some nice coins if you do that. I've said it several times before, a wider net catches more fish. I prefer my coins to all go into one big wide zone for the most part. It's much easier to get something at depth or in trash to tell me it's a coin, without my Explorers splitting coins into alternate dimensions to the point where I no longer know if the coin is still present in THIS reality.
Still, I don't like or use coin identification in that high of respect (in terms of the Explorer or Etrac) on coins when I'm looking for oldies. I go mainly by the depth. Once I get a feel for how deep clads are at a spot I start looking for coin signals as deep as the deepest clads or deeper. If clads get down to say 5" then I'll only dig coins that deep or deeper. Easy to tell how deep they are by sound, and so I never liked or used depth meters on my prior machines that much either. And, for the shallower ones than that if they hit 181 here and there or have the softer/sweeter sound to them I'll dig them just in case they are a shallow oldie that hasn't sunk for some reason. Believe me, you'll *know* you've got a silver coin under your coil once you've heard the first one on a Sovereign.
Besides all that, all one has to do is Cruise the Explorer and Etrac forums and in no time you'll find the most common and strongest advice always given for those machines is DON'T GO BY THE VDI! Reason being that on any machine coins at depth can and do read like other coins. I've dug wheat signals that were silvers on my Explorers as I have when I thought they were silvers on other machines. Ground minerals, moisture content, how it's laying in the ground, even how sloppy you swing at a target that day can and will make one coin look like the other. There are other tools you can use to cipher out if the coin is "dig worthy". Don't just let the meter on your Etrac tell you, because I promise you you'll be missing some nice coins if you do that. I've said it several times before, a wider net catches more fish. I prefer my coins to all go into one big wide zone for the most part. It's much easier to get something at depth or in trash to tell me it's a coin, without my Explorers splitting coins into alternate dimensions to the point where I no longer know if the coin is still present in THIS reality.
Crtter,
Thanks for your reply ....WE are NOT peasants .....We are Kings of a different land !!.... I thought that maybe there was a trick to setting the meter whereby it would be easier to disern what coins were what ......OK , so I see now that I will have to learn to watch numbers more closely to see how they rise and fall .... I tried hard to see differences , but they are so slight that I guess I need a lot more time with this machine .... The differences are so close ......I am aware of depth differnces when looking for older coins, but this tot lot Park was not an old coin lot ......I have other Parks for that ....I heard a much more quiet signal but it was coming in pretty good at 180 and while it was down a good 7 inches or so , it was not an old Quarter but was a Quarter none the less .... I think that I noticed the close numbers more yesterday because I probably dug 10 Copper Pennies in a row and then hit on a Quarter and it seemed like I was going to be digging another Copper Penny ...... I find it interesting that a company can pretty much dial in whatever numbers thay want for various targets ..... I wonder if someone out there has the ability to mod the numbering system of the Sovereign to more easily identify targets ? ......Or I will just have to get better at identifying what the Sovereign is telling me .....Proabably the latter .....Thanks again , Jim
Kered,
Thanks for your reply, and your thoughts on this ....Jim
Thanks for your reply ....WE are NOT peasants .....We are Kings of a different land !!.... I thought that maybe there was a trick to setting the meter whereby it would be easier to disern what coins were what ......OK , so I see now that I will have to learn to watch numbers more closely to see how they rise and fall .... I tried hard to see differences , but they are so slight that I guess I need a lot more time with this machine .... The differences are so close ......I am aware of depth differnces when looking for older coins, but this tot lot Park was not an old coin lot ......I have other Parks for that ....I heard a much more quiet signal but it was coming in pretty good at 180 and while it was down a good 7 inches or so , it was not an old Quarter but was a Quarter none the less .... I think that I noticed the close numbers more yesterday because I probably dug 10 Copper Pennies in a row and then hit on a Quarter and it seemed like I was going to be digging another Copper Penny ...... I find it interesting that a company can pretty much dial in whatever numbers thay want for various targets ..... I wonder if someone out there has the ability to mod the numbering system of the Sovereign to more easily identify targets ? ......Or I will just have to get better at identifying what the Sovereign is telling me .....Proabably the latter .....Thanks again , Jim
Kered,
Thanks for your reply, and your thoughts on this ....Jim
Critterhunter
New member
Like I said, if you set the meter to where it hits 181 on a silver dime once in a while then silver will do that, like every other sweep. Here's a tip that most don't know- The meter "at rest" will often read -506. You can calibrate the meter without a coin by adjusting it to that number when it's at rest. Usually when you sweep around or after iron the machine will reset the meter like this. If you tweek that to -507 then it should do the 181 thing on silver. However, I prefer using a silver dime because there is slight differences in this number. Mainly you are tweaking the meter to where it's more like 506.5 in adjustment I think. That's why I'd be interested in building my own meter. Not an internal one, those have their own issues. But I would like to build an external one that has the 4th digit in it's display. I believe it may very well be possible to then see a distinct say 180.1 for a copper penny, 180.3 for a clad dime, 180.5 for a clad quarter, and perhaps 180.8 or 180.9 for a silver coin. That depends on if the Sovereign's "scaling" internally for various volt level outputs is high enough in resolution to see these ever so slight differences. I believe it is, just based on the fact that I can get the stock meter to go 181 on a silver dime versus stay at 180 on a clad one.
I'd like to hear if any of the internal meter users out there have noticed this on various coins? Even still, that meter might not have enough internal resolution to measure these ever so slight differences in output voltage. You need something with very high sensitivity to be able to measure those types of "in between" changes between numbers. Not all volt meters are created equally. I have no idea if that one is or isn't, but I suspect it does have very high resolution from memory when I was looking into the specs for that volt meter from an electronic supply house he was using to install in Sovereigns.
I'd like to hear if any of the internal meter users out there have noticed this on various coins? Even still, that meter might not have enough internal resolution to measure these ever so slight differences in output voltage. You need something with very high sensitivity to be able to measure those types of "in between" changes between numbers. Not all volt meters are created equally. I have no idea if that one is or isn't, but I suspect it does have very high resolution from memory when I was looking into the specs for that volt meter from an electronic supply house he was using to install in Sovereigns.
My meter is a Sunray DTI III ......I have been sweeping a clad quarter , a Merc dime , and a Barber dime .......Everything goes up evenly when adjusting numbers .....When the quarter is set at 180 , both the Merc and the Barber dime read 180 , and for that matter so does a Copper Penney ...This is the reason I am having so many problems ID'ing my coins ....This is and air test ....... I remember yesterday in the ground , my copper pennies , the clad quarters , AND a couple of clad dimes that I pulled , the VID's were slowly jumping from 179 to 180 ......My number at rest with the threshold humming is - 511 ..... If i drop the number at rest down to - 507 as you mentioned .....All numbers go to 179 for each coin ..... ????......Jim
Critterhunter
New member
Well, that's the difference in meters. I'm using the Minelab DigiSearch 180 meter and it's always resting at like -506 or -507. Still, the same thing in theory should work for yours. You don't need to use a silver dime. Stick a clad one on the ground and sweep over it. VERY finely tune the adjustment pot on the meter to where it just hits 181, then back it off just a tiny little hair to the meter just reads 180 again. Now a silver dime should read 181. That's why I think it might be possible to calibrate a meter with a 4th decimal digit to see the slight changes of conductivity (voltage output) from the Sovereign and show differences between them. You'd need a volt meter with a 2 volt scale and very precise millivolt ability (the 4th digit, one place after the decimal). Even volt meters that have this ability doesn't mean they are any good at it. It relates to tolerances and specifications of that meter.
Now you've done it! I'm really starting to kick around that idea again. I may have to build me an external meter with this kind of m/v resolution and see what gives. I'd also like to put two pots on it. One for larger calibration and the other for tiny 1/10th of a volt calibration to get it right where I want it. The stock meter could even use that and it would be easy to do, because I often have a hard time getting that stock POT with bigger resistance ranges to exactly where I want it.
It's also important to note your meter calibration off and on during a hunt. I find that after I fire the GT up it may read exactly where I want it, but roughly 5 or 10 minutes after everything has warmed up the meter has drifted off a bit. Usually once I re-calibrate it that second time it holds there until the hunt is done. That's why I like to pay attention to the "at rest" number it's displaying while hunting. It's an easy way to check if the setting is holding without sticking another coin on the ground.
Now you've done it! I'm really starting to kick around that idea again. I may have to build me an external meter with this kind of m/v resolution and see what gives. I'd also like to put two pots on it. One for larger calibration and the other for tiny 1/10th of a volt calibration to get it right where I want it. The stock meter could even use that and it would be easy to do, because I often have a hard time getting that stock POT with bigger resistance ranges to exactly where I want it.
It's also important to note your meter calibration off and on during a hunt. I find that after I fire the GT up it may read exactly where I want it, but roughly 5 or 10 minutes after everything has warmed up the meter has drifted off a bit. Usually once I re-calibrate it that second time it holds there until the hunt is done. That's why I like to pay attention to the "at rest" number it's displaying while hunting. It's an easy way to check if the setting is holding without sticking another coin on the ground.