Metal detectors ... anything really new and improved ??

[Willee - Texas]

Years ago we had discrimination that would tell a dime from a quarter or nickle ... some could tell clad pennies from copper ones.
This was years ago.
So what is really new?
Anything yet that can tell a gold ring from a pull tab?
Any detector that can positively ID gold?
How about a positive ID on a silver coin?

Where are the big improvements ... not just the fancy readouts, the streamlined housings, and multi-tone ID (old stuff).
Do the latest and greatest (read expensive) detectors really detect deeper or tell us anything new?

Dont get me wrong ... I like the color displays and the advanced screens of the V3i and enjoy using the rock solid stability of the E-trac.
My Excalibur II uses old circuits, been around for 12 years or more basically unchanged, and is still the king VLF to use in the water.
But ... I still can not ID a pull tab or chunk of foil from a nice gold ring ... or a silver quarter from a clad one.
Sometimes I wonder if the technology has actually advanced very much from 1999.
(prices sure have)

Where is the wonder detector that will blow them all away?

 

[Elton]

able to tell the difference in Gold rings and even the amount 10 14 18 ..I think I read that as one of the points when it was brought out... If I am wrong sorry but was sure that was one of the greater points in double numbers and position on the screen. So that would be sorta new...sizing the targets with Garrett GTI's that newer tech over years ago stuff. V3i lots of new screen tech.........

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Willee,I think there has been lots of progress since 1999.That Teknetics Mark 1 that could tell the difference from clad and silver lacked depth and was the size of a small suitcase.Compare the Mark 1 and F75 is like comparing a biplane to a new fighter jet.Even your Excalibur 11 has evolved a Slimline coil is now used on the Excal.Another comparison the Explorer XS and your Etrac still improvements which a lot of user's have showed good results.A detector that will sort out gold rings from trash isn't being produced yet,but it will.Until then we'll have to use the current models which are much better than we used in 1999.

 

[RELIC_HUNTER]

Years ago we had discrimination that would tell a dime from a quarter or nickle ... some could tell clad pennies from copper ones.
This was years ago.
So what is really new?
Anything yet that can tell a gold ring from a pull tab?
Any detector that can positively ID gold?
How about a positive ID on a silver coin?

Where are the big improvements ... not just the fancy readouts, the streamlined housings, and multi-tone ID (old stuff).
Do the latest and greatest (read expensive) detectors really detect deeper or tell us anything new?

Dont get me wrong ... I like the color displays and the advanced screens of the V3i and enjoy using the rock solid stability of the E-trac.
My Excalibur II uses old circuits, been around for 12 years or more basically unchanged, and is still the king VLF to use in the water.
But ... I still can not ID a pull tab or chunk of foil from a nice gold ring ... or a silver quarter from a clad one.
Sometimes I wonder if the technology has actually advanced very much from 1999.
(prices sure have)

Where is the wonder detector that will blow them all away?

Willie it is called keeping up with the everyone else. Monkey see monkey do. Nothing has changed. A fool and his money will soon part.

 

[Larry (IL)]

Willee, you should know that targets can not be positively ID'd on any detector. Gold targets are all over the spectrum and the day a detector is made that can ID gold from trash, will make the world news. To a degree, many of the the things you ask can be done, but it has more to do with the skill of the operator than the machine used.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Willee, you are right: it's been just whistles and bells for several decades. Oh sure, a few "interesting" bells and whistles, and sure, the carrying weight gets smaller and lighter, but essentially, very little improvements over what you could find years ago.

This becomes especially apparent, for those who have been detecting since the mid 1970s. If you've been detecting that long, do you guys remember the light-years of acheivement we saw, every 2 or 3 yr, ,from ..... say ..... 1975, to 1985? It was utterly un-believable! In 1975, you might be swinging a BFO, or an all-metal TR. Or if you were really on the cutting edge in 1975, you *might* have had the then-new TR disc, and be getting an amazing 4" or 5" depth on coins, while passing tabs!! woohoo! Then a year or two later, you could get 8 or 9" depth on coins (albeit with no disc. though), by using the VLF all-metal. Wow! Then a year later, you could sort of get 7" depth WHILE discriminating (Red Baron, 6000d, etc...) Wow! Then a year or so later, depth had been added, swing speed slowed down so that you didnt' look like you were golfing, Wow! Then a year or so later, you had TID/VDI, Wow!

I can actually recall an era, when .... if you had a machine more than 3 yrs. old, you had a dinasour, and your friends were kicking your b*tt.

But now, a machine like the Explorer is 10 yrs. old, for example. A machine like the Mark 1 is 25 yrs. old. That can do *almost* (very close, given 25 yrs. later!!) what the Explorer can do. Contrast this, to if you had a "25 yr. old machine" in 1985!! That'd be a 1960 machine, which probably could scarcely pick up a coin at 3", in the best of soils, with no ID or disc.

So yes, we seem to have hit a point of diminishing returns, and have hit a limit on the laws of physics.

 

[Monte]

Years ago we had discrimination that would tell a dime from a quarter or nickle ... some could tell clad pennies from copper ones.
This was years ago.
So what is really new?

Well, as a good example, the VDI/TID models have been around for roughly a quarter of a century, but it's not a feature on your Excaliber II. It is a function developed primarily for the Coin Hunter (target ID) and enhanced for the more avid detectorists (VDI read-out for the Relic Hunters, Coin Hunters, Jewelry Hunters, etc.), but even the way different manufacturers use TID with their various models isn't the same.

Yes, we did have Discrimination for quite some time, but while some manufactures have retained a full-range, variable adjustment for Discrimination, some makers have made a few, or even most of their line-up, relying on a simple notch segment to accept or reject certain ranges. I believe that trend will be changing back to the more versatile variable discrimination with some of those manufacturers, so that would be an improvement.

Anything yet that can tell a gold ring from a pull tab?

No, there isn't anything in a hobby-class detector that can separate the wide range of varied conductivities used for gold rings and other gold jewelry from the equally broad span of old and new pull-tab/pry-tab designs. Not only do I think there hasn't been and isn't, but I also think there won't be such a design in the future.

Any detector that can positively ID gold?

Nope, not really. The best Good Vs Bad "discrimination" is our eyes when we take a look at what the detector discovered, but even then we might need to have further tests to verify the object as being a legitimate gold jewelry item.

How about a positive ID on a silver coin?

A Silver Coin is not much different than a Gold Jewelry item in that all it is, is a hunk of metal in a man-formed state of mixed alloys. All the detector can do is respond to the metal's presence and alert us, and with some of the better VDI/TID models we might get a reasonably good response that would suggest a likely Silver Coin. Again, once recovered, our visual verification will confirm if it is silver or not.

Where are the big improvements ... not just the fancy readouts, the streamlined housings, and multi-tone ID (old stuff).

Some manufactures have improved the speed of an automated Ground Balance adjustment, maybe provided more information as the the Ground Phase read-out and the Fe[sub]3[/sub]O[sub]4[/sub] conditions of iron mineralization. Some manufacturer provide us with a larger-size, easy-to-read VDI number, lighter-weight and improved balance and 'feel,' and more audio information than simple Tone ID. The processes by which the detectors work is addressed to give us improved performance in trashy or brushy environments at times.

Some of the 'improvements' that I think we ought to see in the future are not really a lot of additional features or functions, but a better set of functional features so that we have all the info we might usually want, yet quicker and easier to set-up and use. I know a few people who dislike the entire Explorer series, to include the E-Trac, due to it being just too much info to absorb, and these tend to be 'average' coin hunters. But when they grabbed a similar FBS model, like the Safari, it just seemed to 'fit' them better simply due to the simplicity.

Do the latest and greatest (read expensive) detectors really detect deeper or tell us anything new?

Some more expensive models can provide additional visual information, yes, but I don't think it is all that useful for the bulk of the hobbyists. Heck, even many very avid detectors prefer to to mess with some of the "higher tech" units and just use a more mid-priced models that offers more than ample performance and simplicity.

I can think of a dozen I know who do not like the Spectra V3i, for example, and were quite content to stick with their MXT or move to an MXT Pro. I am also one who feels that way, and even favor the discontinued XLT to the new kid on the rack, and like the MXT Pro. I had the top-end Teknetics T2 which is very versatile, but no single detector is 'perfect' and most of my hunting this year has been with the Teknetics Omega. Just over half the price of my T2 but plenty of fun and performance.

As for "deepest' or just the subject of "depth," you'll never hear an end to that topic of discussion. Yes, some new models go deeper. Yes, some older models or mid-priced models can match the depth of many upper-cost models or beat a competitors top-dollar unit. Most of the time it really gets down to what the operator can do.

Don't get me wrong ... I like the color displays and the advanced screens of the V3i and enjoy using the rock solid stability of the E-trac.
My Excalibur II uses old circuits, been around for 12 years or more basically unchanged, and is still the king VLF to use in the water.
But ... I still can not ID a pull tab or chunk of foil from a nice gold ring ... or a silver quarter from a clad one.
Sometimes I wonder if the technology has actually advanced very much from 1999.
(prices sure have)

I think we reached most of our more technical advances by the mid '90s. Since then most of what we have come to appreciate as noteworthy advanced designs seems to have come from only a few manufacturers. I know, this is just an opinion piece and these are my personal opinions, but as of today, I only see some of the better detector offerings in the past half-dozen years coming from First Texas Products in the way of Fisher & Teknetics models, from Minelab with their BBS and FBS models, and White's with their mid-and -upper end models.

I would hope that some of the new features, copied from some of the three I've mentioned, and better engineering helps Garrett catch up and stay current because they haven't been competitive in the mid-to-high end models. Tesoro remains the one maker who gives us simplicity with minimum features, and they still don't make a decent Target ID model, so at this point I can't see them being a part of anything new and unique.

The fact remains that there are too many good targets and bad targets that possess similar sizes and shapes and conductive properties that we will always find good with bad and visa-versa. All we can do is utilize the current technology and refine the subtle little things that some engineers are good at so that we have a fun-to-use detector that we like and that works for the environment we hunt in.

Where is the wonder detector that will blow them all away?

Three are on the rear seat of my van and one is here in my den. It's just up to me to grab the right one and have the best coil mounted when I go up against whoever is holding onto #2.

For now, let me just say ...

[size=large]Merry Christmas and Happy New Year![/size]​

Monte

 

[dewcon4414]

Tom im not sure about deminished returns. Just in the last few years the big changes have been in headphones and coils i think. They needed to catch up before we can take another leap. The 12 in seems to be the best coil right now for the equipment we are using. We all know the lager it gets the less affective it will be at depths on smaller objects. Hopefully the next generation will take the coil and physics a bit farther.

Dew

 

[jackintexas]

I think the really big difference between the older detectors and the newer ones is the weight and balance. I remember the heavy lunch box type we used to hunt with. As for the gold, as it will be found easier but is replenished regularly unlike the silver coins....Jack

 

[dewcon4414]

I find all the added innovations ... bells and whistles helpful, but as was stated the BEST tell ive found still is tones and sounds. Even with all the ways to tell on my SE i still dig more based on what im hearing that what im seeing just because of wrap around and depth. On deep silver.... with the SE i can tell most of the time its silver over clad. But the TID screen might or might not be saying the same thing just because of depth. Also, with most detectors when tones have to be processed you loose a little depth... unlike say a PI or AM machine where it only had to tell you something is there.

Dew

 

[Jerry-Wi]

Packaging and weight are huge. There are light years of difference between tube technology, discrete component transistors, early Dip type IC's and todays SMT components. It simply amazes me how much capability is put into a detector that weights only three pounds. That is a big deal for these tired old bones.

Jerry

 

[goodmore]

And then everybody will be swinging it. And I mean everybody. I love this hobby for many reasons. I have met in person and in these forums some smart wonderful people who share my detecting fever. The most successful are rewarded with finds because they earned it. Research, learning the detector, digging it all, freezing on the beach and many many more things contribute to the good finds. I would hate to see the day that a total rookie can pick up a detector and tell gold from tabs with out digging. The day that happens our hobby is over and done with. Targets need to remain elusive and physically hard to find in order to keep the balance. Don't get me wrong. I love to share the hobby with new eager people especially kids. But I don't want the Super Duper detector to go down the beach in front of me.

 

[dewcon4414]

Im with you goodmore.... thats why they call this dirt fishing. Anyone thats ever been fishing knows it takes patience, persistence, knowledge, the right equipment.... and a lucky day. You just never know what you might bring home.... thats the thrill of this.

Dew

 

[LOTR]

hello everyone and happy holidays!
i am a newly registered user(from europe) on this forum and i would like to share and to gain some experience together with other metal detecting hobbyist.
please don't mind if go a little bit off-topic.
i've been using a few different types of detectors. dfx, garrett 250, black knight pro, xp goldmaxx power, gti 2500, etc.
at the moment i am owning a dfx and a xp goldmaxx power. i am going to compare briefly those two model based on my experience. i used dfx for almost a year and xp only three months, with no so many field searches(5 or 6, due to weather). i dug out lots of nice old stuff with dfx, mainly because of a few good sites i've located, over 200 rings, mostly roman, byzantine, ottoman(turkish), serbian, bulgarian etc and countless number of coins. however, xp goldmaxx is an amazingly deep detector(with standars 9'' coil), much deeper than dfx, at least 2 inches for coins and rings.dfx is slightly deeper for bigger and deeper targets.xp has a lightning fast recovery speed and it is perfectly balanced, hip mount option included. it is a tone id machine, running on 18 khz, so it is suitable for small gold/silver coins/jewelry. i read on some forum that due to wireless headphones system it is not allowed to import them in the usa, so it might be a problem for potential users to purchase it.
in general, the only better thing of dfx versus xp is auto ground-balance and beach search, xp is unstable on wet sand, the rest is in favor of xp.
the problem i noticed with all detectors i used , including these two models is that none can ignore a rusty horse shoe and ox shoe( crescent shape),none.
i already wrote a lot so if you have any question regarding those two detectors i'll be glad to reply.
if you by any chance come to europe make sure you get one and test it, you will be amazed how deep and fast this machine is.
greetings