Met BDA Hunter (and my Bermudian nut)!

[Erik]

Just got back from Bermuda where I went with my wife for our 3rd anniversary! I met up with Find's legend BDA Hunter - and what a nice pirate he was (see post below re New Pirate by BDA Hunter).

Want to post the nut from a few days hunting, but need some help reducing a 450KB jpeg - how do I do it.

Found a couple of cool things in the sand - first is an old coin or token that appears to be gilded, but I have yet to identify (any ideas????). It was found in the dry sand and heavily encrusted. BDA was kind enough to remove most of the encrustation.

Second pic is the St. Christopher medal I dug as my first target in the wet sand with my Minelab SE - complete with chain. Not much by your standards here, but it was exciting for a pirate in training!

I also dug a couple of silver English Shillings (1906 & a near mint 1941) and a few interesting relics that must be a few hundred years old.

We had a great time in Bermuda in no small part thanks to Eric - BDA Hunter, a true pirate and friend!

Best, Erik (from New Jersey)

 

[Macaco]

The coin is a piece of eight otherwise known as a reale or Spanish cob.

It is a Spanish colonial, silver coin that, at the newest, could have been minted in the early to mid 1700's though it could be older. Nice find. That is a true treasure coin. Congratulations.

 

[Crash620]

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[Gulf Hunter]

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[PaPa-Joe-Fla.]

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[Erik]

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[Erik]

Hi Steve, Thanks for your post and kind words! The "coin" is not silver, but appears to be made of pewter or some base metal and then gilded - it still has some traces of gilding on it. So I'm not sure what exactly it is - repro, couterfeit? It does look quite old though and it was heavily encrusted when found - Maybe bdahunter will post a before cleaning pic. Question: do you or anyone here recognize the design to be Spanish? Thanks for any help with this interesting item - whatever it turns out to be.

Best Regards from Erik in NJ

 

[Macaco]

The design is clearly Spanish. The top photo shows the coat of arms for the royal house and in the second photo one can see the faint impression of a symetrical cross. These are obvious signs that the coin is Spanish colonial in origin though it is remotely possible it could have actually been minted in Spain.

If you look with a magnifying glass at the side with the cross you will see impressions (in relief) of castles and lions on the insides of the corners of the cross.

The irregular shape of the coin is also a dead give away.

As to the material the coin is made from, it looks like many of the Spanish cobs I've recovered from salt water. It has a flat, silver look over the majority of the coin with darker areas which are caused by silver sulfide. If the coin had been a counterfeit made of pewter it would have blisters and bumps all over the surface and would be nearly black. Pewter artifacts which I've recovered while diving off of Central America all have that effect.

Your coin looks similar (in condition) to one I found in a salt water marsh in Nicaragua a couple years ago. The one I found had suffered badly from salt water corrosion and, in areas, the corrosion had penetrated into the interior of the coin which essentially made it corrode from the inside out. This is possible because back then, if the planchet wasn't hot enough when struck, miniscule cracks would form in the coin which would let salt and other minerals penetrate into the coin.

I have found cobs that after removal from the water actually sluffed off layers of silver from the surface of the coin. Iron will do the same thing.

Your best bet is to soak the coin in clean fresh water for a long time, like a month or more. Change the water about once a week. Doing this will draw out the salts and other minerals and amy stabilize the silver. Otherwise it will continue to corrode.

My educated opinion is that the coin is indeed silver and is a Spanish cob from the Spanish Colonial period and is no newer than the mid 1700's.

 

[Erik]

Dear Steve,

Thank you again for your very informative post! After reading your prior post I looked at a few Spanish Reales on the Internet and now agree that it very much looks like several that I saw, but not an exact match. Can you point me to a more definitive source - either on line or in print? The only thing that's still throwing me off is the fact that I can see traces of gilding on the coin - was that ever done? Is it possible that someone had it gilded at one point? I'll send you some hi-res scans when I get home tonight if you would be kind enough to PM me your email address.

Best, Erik

 

[Macaco]

Finding an exact match is impossible because all cob coins are unique do to the method by which they were made though matching some key features of the stampings helps narrow down the origin of the coin.

It should be possible to determine date, mint and year struck or at least the decade struck if the date is completely obscured by examining the coat of arms and the cross.

What you describe as 'gilding' is more likely surface silver which is sluffing off due to corrosion.

For a good, lightweight reference I recommend:

"The Practical Book of Cobs" by Daniel and Frank Sedwick (Check the library or used book stores).

For the most exhaustive and expert volume on Spanish Colonial coins I recommend:

"Cobs, Pieces of Eight and Treasure Coins" by Sewall Menzel. (Available through the American Numismatic Society).

I'll send you a PM. I'd like to see more detailed pictures.

 

[Erik]

Steve, Thanks again for your sage reply. I'll definitely send you some hi res scans tonight when I get home. Thanks for the pointers to the books. The Sedwick book does not appear to be available on Amazon - do you know of any sources for it? I'll pick up the other tome from them for $125 - looks like a neat book. Thanks for getting me excited about this coin! Best, Erik

 

[Macaco]

Finding a Spanish cob is a pretty neat thing regardless of condition. I didn't want you to give up on the one you found, thinking it's a counterfeit, until we determine if it is or not.

Then Menzel book is The Bible on cobs and other Spanish treasure coins. One can become an actual expert on the subject by studying that book and it's a really interesting read.

Looking forward to the pics.

 

[bdahunter]

[attachment 63666 P7170001.JPG][attachment 63667 P7170002.JPG]

The edge of this coin was flaking away when Erik delivered it to me for some basic cleaning. The core of the coin is black and it is a light weight for a silver piece of this size. The gilding is an odd feature as it is clear when examined up close that the gilding is very superficial. I would be most pleased to find this coin to be an old counterfeit coin as it would have even greater value. It might very well be a fake pirate coin from a kid's pirate scavenger hunt on the hotel beach. I doubt that it is a piece of eight but it would be wonderful if it was since it was found on a pirate's first water hunt.
The good people at www.coinpeople.com might be able to give an opinion as well.

Cheers,

Erik

PS ERIK, it was great to meet you and your wife on your recent trip to Bermuda. My deep regrets that we were unable to get together with you for dinner on Friday, last. Good hunting and good luck with the coin find.

 

[Erik]

Hi - I did some calcium removal this weekend on this "coin" and alas it is just a copy of a reale as suspected and not the real thing. Oh well - it was fun anyway thinking of what it COULD have been. Here are some post pics. Please note the word "COPY" near the bottom of one side - I wasn't visible until I dipped the coin in a maleic acid solution.

 

[bdahunter]

I had a feeling that would be the case, Erik. Sorry it didn't pan out but at least it's an interesting find. Having fun with this hobby is the whole point. Very few of us are going to give up our day jobs and try to make a living by pirating.
It would just make something that's fun into work anyway.

Cheers Mate,

BDA