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me, ma and pa each found a little something today

M

mdholedigger

New member
me and two of my buddies went out and had an ok day. the first photo was found by pa :crazy: the second photo with the uncleaned coin on the right was found by ma:super: and third photo belongs to me :clap:. pa would like any info on the silver button as to whether it would be post civil war or not :shrug: and for me this is my second fuse in two weeks and this one is very different from my first any info on it would be great :help:

thanks for letting me share:twodetecting:

Hazel

[attachment 17508 foundcivilwarrelics054small.jpg]
[attachment 17509 foundcivilwarrelics055small.jpg]
[attachment 17510 foundcivilwarrelics056small.jpg]
[attachment 17511 foundcivilwarrelics057small.jpg]
[attachment 17512 foundcivilwarrelics058small.jpg]
[attachment 17513 foundcivilwarrelics059small.jpg]
 
You asked about the fuze you found. Actually, it is only the "stock" portion of a Schenkl Combination (time and/or impact) fuze. The rotator-cap, the stock's lip, and the stock's internal parts are missing.

This fuze was used exclusively in Schenkl projectiles. In the 3-inch caliber it was used only in the case-shot projectile (which is distinguished by its very-round nose).

The .50-caliber lead balls in your photo are from a Schenkl case-shot.

Relic hunters frequently say this fuze is made of pewter, but that is incorrect. Pewter is a semi-precious metal (it is an alloy containing a fair amount of silver). Therefore, it would NOT be employed for making "can-be-used-only-once" items ...such as artillery fuzes. Schenkl's Combination Fuze was made of a "white-metal" alloy which seems to be very similar to what we call now call solder.

Solder is a rather soft metal ...which is why Schenkl Comination fuzes are almost never found fully intact.

If you have a copy of the Dickey & George artillery projectiles encyclopedia (1993 edition), look in the Fuzes section for the Schenkl Combination fuze. Page 438 has a photo of a dug one, and page 468 has a blueprint-style diagram, with a detailed explanation of how the fuze's parts functioned.

By the way... pa's button isn't silver. It's either pewter or Britannia-Metal.

Regards,
TheCannonballGuy [Pete George]
 
Hey Cannonball. I think the button is Tombac - the description and photo in Tice's book is an exact match, even down to the circular milling marks and the fact that they come out of the ground shiny even after 200 years. Supposedly popular between 1770-1800.

Pa Diggins
 
Pa Diggin said:
"Hey Cannonball. I think the button is Tombac - the description and photo in Tice's book is an exact match, even down to the circular milling marks and the fact that they come out of the ground shiny even after 200 years."

Thanks for that info, Pa. It got me curious about what Tombac-metal ACTUALLY is (and looks like). Tice's book says it is an alloy of brass "containing a high amount of nickel and a lesser amount of arsenic." In Tice's photo is does look silver-ish.

However, other information seems to contradict that. Here's some info from a coin-collecting website:
"In 1942, because of the World War, the five cent coin was made with a brass-alloy called "tombac" to conserve nickel. It was made with 12 sides to avoid confusion with the 1 cent coins."

If tombac is indeed silver-ish looking (as Tice's photo shows), the Canadians wouldn't have needed to make a 12-sided 5-cent to avoid confusion with copper-bronze pennies.

So everybody can see what I mean about the color of the metal called tombac, here's a photo of the Canadian 5-cent tombac-metal coin.

Regards,
TheCannonballGuy
 
CBG:
I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the color can vary from brassy to silver but that photo of yours is VERY brassy/coppery. Hmmm. :shrug:

Pa Diggins


[quote ThatCannonballGuy]

Thanks for that info, Pa. It got me curious about what Tombac-metal ACTUALLY is (and looks like). Tice's book says it is an alloy of brass "containing a high amount of nickel and a lesser amount of arsenic." In Tice's photo is does look silver-ish.

However, other information seems to contradict that. Here's some info from a coin-collecting website:
"In 1942, because of the World War, the five cent coin was made with a brass-alloy called "tombac" to conserve nickel. It was made with 12 sides to avoid confusion with the 1 cent coins."

If tombac is indeed silver-ish looking (as Tice's photo shows), the Canadians wouldn't have needed to make a 12-sided 5-cent to avoid confusion with copper-bronze pennies.

So everybody can see what I mean about the color of the metal called tombac, here's a photo of the Canadian 5-cent tombac-metal coin.

Regards,
TheCannonballGuy[/quote]
 
Pa Diggins wrote:
"I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the color can vary from brassy to silver but that photo of yours is VERY brassy/coppery. Hmmm."

Pa, the color of Tombac that I'm familiar with is brassy/coppery. But I've now done some additional websearching ...and I think I've found the answer to the apparent contradiction between Tice's description and other people's description of tombac.

The answer is, your statement that "the color of tombac can vary from brassy to silver" is correct! It turns out that the color of tombac will vary according to the amount (or, "percentage") of zinc that was included in the alloy called tombac.

To see photos of plumbing-nozzles made of coppery/brassy-colored tombac, go to:
http://www.exclusivefountains.co.uk/nozzles-komet.htm
(That website doesn't perit "copying" of its photos.)

Here's another description of the coppery/brassy Canadian 5-cent coins ...from http://www.calgarycoin.com/modern/cd5cent.htm
"From midway through 1942 and all of 1943, due to the war effort, 5-cent coins were struck from a brass alloy called "tombac". These proved unpopular as the color made them too easy to confuse with a cent."

BUT... I also found a photo of a 1998 Romanian coin made of silvery-looking tombac. (see photo below.)

Tice's tombac button looks silver-ish because (as he says), it contains "a high percentage of zinc."

So, the color of tombac can be either coppery/brassy or silver-ish, depending on how much zinc the alloy contains.

I gotta say I didn't know that, until today. Thanks for your comments, Pa.

Regards,
TheCannonballGuy
 
Hey Ma and Pa,

I am so glad we got together:clapping: and as i said before anytime is a good time for me so please feel free to call. I am so looking forwards to our next digging day.:twodetecting::detecting:

your diggin buddy
Hazel
 
Back atcha Digger. It's nice to have someone do detect with who is as enthusiastic about the hobby as we are.

Hopefully we'll have nice weather this weekend:thumbup:

Pa Diggins





[quote mdholedigger]Hey Ma and Pa,

I am so glad we got together:clapping: and as i said before anytime is a good time for me so please feel free to call. I am so looking forwards to our next digging day.:twodetecting::detecting:

your diggin buddy
Hazel[/quote]
 
hey ed still waiting for that confirmation, but wanted to say that these finds are from a different site then the one with the old buttons and pieces of buckles. i am just getting started on this new site.

hazel
 
[quote ThatCannonballGuy]
Relic hunters frequently say this fuze is made of pewter, but that is incorrect. Pewter is a semi-precious metal (it is an alloy containing a fair amount of silver). Therefore, it would NOT be employed for making "can-be-used-only-once" items ...such as artillery fuzes. Schenkl's Combination Fuze was made of a "white-metal" alloy which seems to be very similar to what we call now call solder.

Solder is a rather soft metal ...which is why Schenkl Comination fuzes are almost never found fully intact.

[Pete George][/quote]

Pewter is 90% tin with lead, antimony and copper. It contains no silver at all. Recent pweter contains no lead.

That button shown with the dime looks very much like the fasteners used for drop fly breeches and leggins from colonial times.
 
Charlie P. (NY) said:
"Pewter is 90% tin with lead, antimony and copper. It contains no silver at all. Recent pweter contains no lead."

Hmmm, that's odd. I was told that pewter contains silver by a pewtersmith at a Living History pewter-crafting demonstration at Colonial Williamsburg (Virginia), about 20 years ago. Apparently I was mis-informed - or perhaps my memory is failing. ;-)
Regards,
TheCannonballGuy
 
well got to go stil can't get on that site and its a cool pretty day me and the dog are going metal detecting hope to have something to post later

hazel
 
[quote ThatCannonballGuy]Charlie P. (NY) said:
"Pewter is 90% tin with lead, antimony and copper. It contains no silver at all. Recent pweter contains no lead."

Hmmm, that's odd. I was told that pewter contains silver by a pewtersmith at a Living History pewter-crafting demonstration at Colonial Williamsburg (Virginia), about 20 years ago. Apparently I was mis-informed - or perhaps my memory is failing. ;-)
Regards,
TheCannonballGuy[/quote]

Williamsburg is the mecca of colonial reenactors and I bow to the quality of their efforts . . . but they do employ interns during the season of dubious training and knowledge.

http://www.dmgovan.com/?page=what_is

http://www.alchemycastings.com/lead-products/jewelry.htm

The latter site lists 72(!) variations on the pewter alloy mix! One of them does contain silver, but less than 1% of the melt.

I did check a couple sources, just to be sure. My brain sometimes sucks mud, itself. The older I get the better I used to be.
 
Charlie P. (NY) said"
"Williamsburg is the mecca of colonial reenactors and I bow to the quality of their efforts . . . but they do employ interns during the season of dubious training and knowledge.
www.dmgovan.com
www.alchemycastings.com
The latter site lists 72(!) variations on the pewter alloy mix! One of them does contain silver, but less than 1% of the melt."

As Spock said... "Fascinating." Charlie, thanks for the info - especially the website-URLs with the pewter-alloy variations.
THAT could explain why the Colonia Williamsburg pewtersmith told the audience (including me) that pewter contains silver - the alloy HE was using must have contained it.

Apparently, it's common for "laymen" (which means most of us) to assume there is only one "type" of certain metal-alloys: we don't realize there are actually manymany formula variations within each type. Brass is a good example of that. The formula-variations produce different colors, such as white-brass, yellow-brass, and orange-brass (which is also called "high copper content" brass).

Another good example, located in this same thread, is the tombac (Tombac-metal) flat-button. When the tombac alloy contains an unusually high percentage of zinc, the tombac's color will be silvery rather than coppery/brassy. I did not know that until I participated in this thread.

Charlie P. (NY) also said:
"The older I get the better I used to be."

ROFL! Ohhh, that's excellent! I'm going to "borrow" it for the next time my over-age-55 absentmindedness reveals itself.

Thanks again for the info,
TheCannonballGuy [Pete George]
 
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