MD AM mode is deeper?

[Hightone]

I started this from a comment made in another thread. The comment was on the Ace 250. It goes deeper in the All Mettal mode. So correct me if I'm wrong. My CXIII has a true all metal mode, and my understanding is that because the discrimination circuitry is not active, the unit is only using 1 circuit that detects all metal.

In the Ace 250, the discrimination circuit is still working and it just has all of the segments turned on to allow what is found to be heard through the speaker. Discrimination, therefor, is always on. The discrimination on the Ace is just to silence different segments as you choose. It still picks up everything and displays it.

Isn't there a difference in the all metal modes on each of these detectors?

 

[khouse]

The only way you can access the true all metal mode on the 250 is hold the pinpoint button on. I added a pinpoint toggle so I can lock the pinpoint on if I want. But the 250 retunes so much that it's not good for me to hunt in that mode. But I do like the trigger for pinpointing.

 

[Hightone]

If I open the 250 case, do you just solder two wires on the same area that the button pushes down on. The 3 way switch may be hard to find, but I can surely find a momentary push to close SPST spring loaded switch.

 

[khouse]

It's not quite as simple as that. I suggest you take it apart and see if it's something you want to tackle.

 

[NM5K]

I dunno about the cx111, but yes, the 250 stays
in all metal mode all the time. So the depth is the
same no matter what "notch" is on or off.
I've read some see differences, but in testing mine,
I never have. Mine seems the same no matter what
notches are on or off. IE: the coin depth is the same
in "coin", or all metal. Myself, I think it's a good
system as it does not show the effects on depth that
some older systems might, using more traditional
notch/filter types of circuits.
Like I say, I dunno about the cx111...Never even seen
one..
As far as the "all metal" mode Khouse is referring to,
that the "non motion" mode, which is all metal too...
Both it, and the "motion" ID mode are both "all metal"
modes.. Like you say, you can put it in "coin" mode,
but all you are doing is silencing the other notches
below that level. As you notice, the machine is still
seeing everything, and displaying it on the display.
The only thing different is the unused notches have
been silenced. This type of selectivity does not effect
depth on the "used" notches. So there should be no
performance hit at all using say "coin" mode on coins,
vs say using "all metal" mode on coins.
MK

 

[khouse]

I have said it before that the notch type machines does not loose depth when running high disc. But I can tell you on the progressive disc machines they loose depth as you increase the disc. That's just what I found.

 

[Hightone]

I give it a look this weekend. I just assume that if it's like most boards, I should see where I have to provide a short to mimic the button. Does your PP button still work in conjunction with the toggle? Or did you disable the button altogether?

 

[Hightone]

From the engineers source:

"Virtually all target ID detectors can find targets much deeper than they can identify them. Discrimination only requires one reference signal, which yields a positive signal for good targets and a negative one for bad targets. To identify the target requires some very special and complex electronic circuitry, which does not have the ability to reach the same depth as a simple discriminator. If manufacturers limited the depth of their ID machines to the depth of the identifier circuit, they would sell a lot fewer detectors."

The 250 is no deeper in any mode, as it is always IDing targets to display the proper segment in which it lies.

True all metal, like on the CXIII, does not use the segments, but just the tone. True all metal makes the best use of the threshold, as in many of the Tesoro's and the VCO helps much better than monotone.

 

[khouse]

I have to disable the existing switch. This is the most reliable way to do it. But you'll never miss the thumb button.

 

[Uncle Willy]

And motion all metal goes slightly deeper than non-motion.

Bill

 

[Uncle Willy]

Yeah I have suggested to Garret to install a compression pinpoint trigger in the front top of the grip.

Bill

 

[landman]

Does it really. You know I've never in my 10 years of bing on this forum had heard anyone say this. Then my question is there any advantage of having all metal non motion over the all metal motion?

 

[khouse]

I'm no expert on motion vs non-motion. But I know on my 250 while in the pinpoint mode it must be moving to work. So I would assume that it's a motion true all metal. I know that it retunes very quickly and if you hunt in that mode (holding the pinpoint button on) the 250 you must keep resetting the machine by reapplying the pinpoint button.
But there are plenty of machines designed to hunt in the all metal mode that goes deeper including the Garrett machines.

 

[Terry in PA]

I thought non motion all metal went deeper then motion all metal ?
I may be wrong about that.

 

[Uncle Willy]

By nature of their design motion detectors discriminate deeper and go deeper with motion. The faster you scan the deeper they go and the more accurately they discriminate. So even with slight motion they will perform better than non-motion.

I remember years ago hunting with my old Tesoro Bandido, I would hit a coin so deep that all I got was a low, wide, whine from my detector over the target. But if I whipped the coil rapidly over the target I would get a normal or near normal signal narrowed down that allowed me to pinpoint the target. This is basically the same as the "twitch" I speak of.

Bill

 

[Uncle Willy]

Not really as the motion all metal only requires the slightest movement to perform.

Bill

 

[Uncle Willy]

Yeah the 250 is a motion detector and will go deeper and discriminate better the faster you scan.

Bill