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Love This 10x12 SEF

fsa46

Member
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No gold or silver, but what a day. This 10 x 12 SEF is a killer, I left so may targets because of depth and figuring they were sinkers, you can't imagine.

Thanks to Critters suggestion, I ground balanced in all metal, track, auto and then switched to Fix, Disc., but left in Auto. The depth was awesome, threshold was as smooth as silk and targets were non stop.

I tried adjusting the sensitivity, but Auto worked the best and I couldn't ask for more depth. Even the small targets were hitting hard and some were deep. The only issue, ( if you can even call it an issue ) was that even on some small targets that were 6" down, hit hard, giving the impression they were larger targets or shallow. The knowledge will come experience over time using this wonderful coil....I can see why so many love it.

For those counting the lead count was 43.
 
:rofl: (this is laughter meant in a good way here...)

:thumbup: WOW! That's still a haul, even if no gold or silver turned up. Getting that many sinkers means you are getting down to the gold levels with older drops, as they will sink being heavy much like a sinker. And hold onto that lead, as it's paying pretty good money these days in scrap weight.

Glad you like that coil and wiping my forehead of sweat here...That's one "convert" down that I don't have to worry about knocking at my door and asking why I talked them into buying piece of junk. :biggrin: And here's hoping for many more. :beers: It does amazing things for these BBS units IMO. Some particular brands of detectors don't seem to get along well with the SEF coils, but seems like most BBS and FBS guys love them, that I've read anyway.

And just in case anybody wants to crack the joke...No, don't have any money interest behind these coils, of course. Just think they really push these BBS units that last little bit to the edge of the limits of VLF technology in depth, stability, and left/right separation (unmasking). I really believe that, and so want to see as many people experience what IMO this 12x10 has done for my GT. It'll wake up some "dead" land sites or beaches for people, or at least it has for me *in my soils/sands*.

More on your remarks about the SEF 12x10 at bottom of this post, but first a diversion into PP mode...

I assume then you were using pin point mode some to hunt since you ground balanced in All Metal? I was told from an Email reply when I asked somebody at Minelab that PP on the GT is not a form of all metal that doesn't feature a ground balance, like the manual states. But rather it uses the All Metal Tracking setting that you set it at, and then once set flip to either All Metal Fixed mode or to pin point mode.

The email also seemed to imply that once you flip back to disc (from Fixed or PP), you are now using (of course) the unique method of BBS in Disc mode that doesn't use or need a conventional ground balance at all, but more importantly that when you flip back to PP or Fixed from disc (via the disc switch flipped to All Metal), that the last setting you set the All Metal ground balance at via Track for Fixed and PP will still be active.

Which is good news for those of us using a remote PP switch, because that means we don't have to re-calibrate the ground balance for all metal every time we flip to Fixed or PP from disc to do more reverse discrimination hunting. I had always wondered about if All Metal Fixed lost it's ground balance setting when you flipped to disc and then back again, so that's good to know for both it and now PP since it seems it too uses the All Metal ground balance setting on the GT.

I never saw any instability issues (for the most part) with PP mode when hunting even before setting it's ground balance before, and it's depth always seemed fantastic. However, last time I was out in the field a week or so ago I did ground balance via track, then flipped to PP, and darn if the PP didn't seem just a hair bit more stable than the already rock solid stable it always seems to be at full blast sensitivity, like you can often run it even in the worst of grounds and EMI. Sidenote: Full volume does indeed give PP mode more depth on my GT, so do that too.

Now, whether setting the ground balance for PP was mere perception or fact, I can't say for sure, but it did seem a bit more stable to me than it did hunting that site a bit prior to setting the ground balance for PP that same day. I hunted most of the day in PP, which allowed me to scan the ground quicker, and then would flip over to disc on stuff and wiggle right over it to see if I could get a response. Most of the time I knew what was iron due to PP's unique 3 or 4 response traits on iron, and I'm told PP has roughly about 10 words or so on various other targets as well (still learning that).

What's cool with extremely deep stuff or even shallow stuff in bad ground at some sites, is that if you don't get centered right on top of those targets and wiggle right there in disc you may not have ever heard them in disc with a long general "hunting for my next target" sweep. So by using PP to find stuff and then centering over it in disc and doing the Sovereign short/fast wiggle, you can pull some IDs out of stuff you might not even get a threshold change with otherwise with a general hunting sweep in disc.

But, to carry PP's potential further, I plan to both on land and in the sand start looking for deeper hits in PP that I think is beyond the reach of disc *for that given site's minerals* and start digging the ones that don't give me obvious iron like traits in PP. That's when I'm even more excited about the potential of PP, in giving me PI-like depth as has been said by some in the beach forum in relation to top of the line PI units they've owned in comparison in both good and bad grounds.

If Auto Sensitivity was working for you then that's all that matters, so long as it's smoothing things out and targets are deep and plentiful with Auto. I have used it at some sites, both in the sand and on land, but rarely needed to go that route. Only when I've lowered sensitivity in manual way down to almost the lowest and still have the machine being fussy due to EMI or minerals will I flip over to Auto. Seems to cope with fast changing levels of EMI or ground maxtrix better sometimes, much like Auto ground tracking on a machine would in a sense, but rarely have I had the need to do that since BBS seems smooth as butter most of the time in my mineralized soils/sands.

One particular spot I've used it is on old foot paths containing lots of rocks and bolders that act like hot rocks. Auto Sensitivity seems to track the "too hot/too cold" fast changing ground conditions and smooth the GT right out on those, which can reveal stuff that otherwise might be blinded by nulls or instability in a fixed Manual setting.

Also plan to play with it more in iron infested sites, as I have a suspicion it might have it's advantages in shallow/strong iron patches of junk and sniff out some silver between it faster than being "blinded" with a static manual setting in some rare instances. Maybe, maybe not. Plan to test that and see.

Short Story On Auto Sensitivity- When I first got my 15x12 coil (since has been sold off), I took it to a site that I had pounded the snot out of with various machines and coils over the last 20 years or so. Not a huge spot, so I've worked it hard and with intense gridding. Anyway, wasn't long before I got a rock solid sweet high tone silver-like hit. Dug down and at about 7.5" or so out pops a standing liberty quarter that was standing on edge (this is not the standing lib I got a week or two ago that was on edge with my 12x10). I was using Auto sensitivity to tame down the iron glare, as I was new to the 15x12 and didn't want to fuss with sensitivity yet until I saw how it should act when stable around EMI or iron.

Now, was that silver quarter found because Auto was keeping all four wheels on the road, so to speak with EMI and iron "glare"? Or was it found because it had been on edge and prior machines/coils had missed it? Not sure either way on that. Maybe a combination of both, but I will say these SEFs seem to bang hard on on edge stuff even better than the excellent ability in that respect of the 10" Tornado.

Small Targets & The SEFs- I too have seemed to find these SEFs, even more so the 12x10, hit on tiny stuff at great depths pretty darn hard. Again, an impression with no basis in fact? Not sure, so I need to finish editing the youtube thing I'm doing where I contrast a number of coils on some fine gold items and see what the results are. I suspect though coil choice for fine gold makes no difference, but maybe it does for small non-gold items like shoe eyelets and so on. Need to play with that some more and see what's up with various coils...

Thinking A Target Was Much Shallower Like You Mentioned- Yep again, glad you seem to have found that to be true too. It has a pretty loud "bark" to it. The 13" Ultimate does too. You'll get used to re-scaling the loudness of stuff in your head as to how deep it should be. Easy as pie to re-adjust after a little field time.
 
PS- These SEFs tend to come with the coil nut very loose as they are not tightened down real good from the factory. While the coil is filled with epoxy, with any coil (SEF or not), I always take a bit further caution on that, fearing that water can wick down the wires to the pre-amp in the coil perhaps. What I do is unscrew the nut and then fill that wire hole on top and on the threads the nut threads down on with some Shoe Goo or some form of clear silicone that will stay flexible and not crack over time. Then I hand tighten the nut as far as I can, and then turn just a *hair* more with a wrench.

Be careful, too much and you might crack it. And I wouldn't use any sealer on a coil under warranty. Just hand tighten it down until it's out of warranty, although being able to remove that nut won't do a darn thing if somebody has to dig into a coil I would think. Being epoxy filled they probably just junk any bad ones.

Once again, so glad you seem to like that coil. Am waiting anxiously to see what Ron has to say when he gets his, along with anybody else, good or bad, as we all have different soils or sands that can make a difference in machines or coils.
 
Critter, We are on the same page, the nut was so loose out of the box it was as though it wasn't even on by more than a thread. I did the exact thing you described....put Shoe Goo on and screwed it down.

As far as hunting in PP . I did not hunt in PP at all. I always ground balance in All Metal, Track, Auto, BEFORE switching to whatever setting I am going to use, ( usually Disc., Fix, Auto or Manual. I know some may feel this doesn't work but I am convinced it does. After having problems, either you , someone else, or something I read, said to do this and it works. I've read and talked to so many people about this subject it's easy to forget where it came from.

You have no idea, ( well maybe you do ) how smooth this machine ran today using the 10x12. I was exhausted from digging and didn't want to come home but the thought of the 1 1/2 hour drive convinced me different.

I feel the same as you, although this is a fishing spot there are still many bathers that use the area and it's an old spot. The sinkers are definitely at the same depth as gold it's just a matter of getting your coil over it.
 
Frank that 12x10 always hits hard even on the smallest targets and deep to i was pulling copper rivets CW era 10 inches in a meadow always sounded shallow but nope very deep that is the only coil i have had that does that , all in all it,s a great coil if there was gold or silver today it would be in your finds bag and how with the scullies WOOHOO nothing will excape the scoop :detecting: Good hunt . Jim
 
Critterhunter said:
PS- These SEFs tend to come with the coil nut very loose as they are not tightened down real good from the factory. While the coil is filled with epoxy, with any coil (SEF or not), I always take a bit further caution on that, fearing that water can wick down the wires to the pre-amp in the coil perhaps. What I do is unscrew the nut and then fill that wire hole on top and on the threads the nut threads down on with some Shoe Goo or some form of clear silicone that will stay flexible and not crack over time. Then I hand tighten the nut as far as I can, and then turn just a *hair* more with a wrench.

Be careful, too much and you might crack it. And I wouldn't use any sealer on a coil under warranty. Just hand tighten it down until it's out of warranty, although being able to remove that nut won't do a darn thing if somebody has to dig into a coil I would think. Being epoxy filled they probably just junk any bad ones.

Once again, so glad you seem to like that coil. Am waiting anxiously to see what Ron has to say when he gets his, along with anybody else, good or bad, as we all have different soils or sands that can make a difference in machines or coils.

Its just there to prevent the coil cable from bending to far and damaging the wires. They come new to us unscrewed simply for packaging so as not to put to much bend on the coil cable. Think about an Excal coil for example, rated to what, 200' deep? That nut has nothing to do with waterproofness.
Now on a Coinsearch coil or a Joey coil(for example, when you unscrew the connector you will see an O ring for water tightness. These are your coils that are water resistant, not waterproof.

If you break that flex connector nut, you have to remove the connector on the end of the coil to replace it, so finger tight, just enough to keep it from unscrewing is enough.
 
Probably right Neil, but just the same I worry about water somehow wicking down the wires even encased in epoxy and finding it's way to the pre-amp somehow. Read a long while back of somebody suspecting this was happening with a coil (not sure which coil, but remember thinking to myself "that coil is epoxy filled") so he started doing that. Don't remember if it was just his suspicions due to a coil acting up when wet or if it was that the coil was no longer working and he dug into the epoxy to expose the pre-amp (I've seen some use a solvent to eat away at the epoxy, or they just dig into it) and found rusted components.

I just try to go by an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, even if the precaution might not hold any real value in reality. Only takes a minute to do so I figure can't hurt.

Yea, the flex connector can't be slid then to perhaps fix a short in the cable under it, but easy enough I figure to just cut away the flex sleeve should I need to cut into the cable anyway to fix a short, then I could heat shrink a few layers over the repair to act as the old flex sleeve, or just slide another down onto it and glue to the nut.

Probably is they are loose to ship in the low profile box from the factory like you mentioned. Also have heard mention though the possibility it's done to allow any inner gasses trapped in the epoxy to escape when on non-pressurized cargo planes during shipping maybe. Regardless of why they ain't tight, I even found my 8" Tornado had a rather loose coil nut when I got it, but I ain't putting Shoe Goo under that nut until it's out of warranty. I just hand tightened it and gave it just a hair more turn with a wrench.

As a side note, some of the attempted coil repairs on epoxy filled coils I've seen on the net, have even seen some guys use an angle grinder to cut the coil casing apart to get at things. If the windings have a short pointless to even try to find that doing all that digging, but it would be a handy way to get a bad coil apart fast to clone it or something I guess.
 
Frank my second hobby is fishing for fluke and stripper's we have a lot of bait n tackle shops around here i just saw the price of lead sinkers $1.20 a ounce !!! if anything you found a gold mine of lead :cheers: Jim
 
Critter i like your idea of prevention of water wicking into the coil.
Can you post some info on the silicone gel " shoe glue" or any other kind you use for that SEF coil connector.

Thanks in advance
HH
Jason
 
Shoe Goo is sold at most chain stores. Sometimes next to other glues in that isle, or sometimes it's found in the Shoe department. It's a clear and very thick silicone-like substance meant for fixing holes or loose soles in shoes. Very durable, and stays flexible so it won't crack over time. Truth is clear silicone rated for outdoor use would probably work just as well, but usually I have only seen that in large caulking tube quantities meant for caulking guns, and don't know if it's going to be as thick as Shoe Goo for staying thick where you put it without it flowing flatter.

I plan to use Shoe Goo to waterproof the headphone and coil cable holes for my Plano waterproof box to throw the GT into when it's on my water rig, instead of paying $20 a shot for clam shell waterproof cable deals on that. You don't have to cut off the coil or headphone plugs using the clamshells of course, but I plan not to without using them either. I'll just drill the holes just big enough for the plugs to fit through, and then will put some temporary tape on the backside of the holes to build the Shoe Goo up on. Once dried, I'll take off the tape and Shoe Goo the other side as well of the holes.

Since I almost never use the stock 10" Tornado on land anymore in favor of the 12x10, I don't need clamshells for fast removal of the coil, nor a second pair of headphones I'm going to commit to the water rig. But, down the road should I need to remove either one of them, Shoe Goo usually will peal right off if done right.

One trick I've used when wanting a sealent to stay thicker when I don't want it flowing out flat, is to use it in colder temps so it's thicker. Then once it's dried about a hour or so, I'll take it inside and let it finish curing at proper temperatures.

Again, I would not mess with any sealant under coil nuts until the coil is out of warranty so no chance of voiding it. And, while I like to hand tighten and then turn just a hair more with a wrench, others say that might be unwise and risk cracking the coil cable nut. Way I see it though if it cracks the Shoe Goo is doing it's job anyway. I don't turn the nut much with a wrench. Just a tad beyond what I can do finger tight wise.
 
JASONSPAZ1 said:
Critter i like your idea of prevention of water wicking into the coil.
Can you post some info on the silicone gel " shoe glue" or any other kind you use for that SEF coil connector.

Thanks in advance
HH
Jason


If you can't find Shoe Goo , "GOOP" is the same stuff.
 
The local Ace sells shoe goo at least by me .
 
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